What do people do that can't have a sump?

[Pheeshes]

I'm in the process of setting up a 75 gallon tank. it'll will probably be a fish only with live rock, but depending on the light i can afford it might end up being a reef tank. can it be done with out a sump? there isn't really room under the stand for it. right now i'm looking at a HOB refugium or other options?

thanks guys

[masonicman]

I have a space issue so I could not have sump. I got this HOB refugium. Set it up last Sunday. Working all ready

http://www.aquacave.com/searchresult.aspx?CategoryID=247

[NirvanaFan]

You don't need a sump, but it's a nice place to put equipment and it adds water volume so changes in the water happen less frequently.

and,

http://reefcentral.com/images/welcome.gif

[papagimp]

Can it be done without a sump....certainly. A sump just sortof simplifies a few things, The sump would make the display look a little less cluttered (heaters and other equpiment out of view) and of course, those with a fuge built into the sump or as a sump have all the benefits of that over having added maintinace to keep water quality better. But completely doable.

FWiw, a HOB fuge won't be nearly as effective IME as a full blown under the stand type larger fuge/sump setup. just not as large so it's limited in effectiveness. It will give a place for pods to breed though, maybe not as many but some is better than none as far as i'm concerned.

You'll probably just want to keep an eye on the water quality a tad more without a fuge/sump running. Eventually the tank will "settle" and stabalize some which will make it alot easier to know how often/volume of water changes needed and that sort of thing. A good (really good) skimmer will make a bigger difference as well without the sump/fuge setup. You'll want to ensure that the nutrient exporting going on (removing excess nitrates/phosphates, skimming, water changes, ect. , is effective enough.

Best of luck, keep us posted!

[Pheeshes]

yeah, when i get the stand and tank in(we're picking them up early next week or possible this saturday) i'll post some pics. i've gotta look at the stand and do some measuring to see if a sump is possible and i've also gotta look in the wallet and ask the wife is a sump is possible.

[masonicman]

Yes a HOB probably won't be nearly as effective as a full blown under the stand type larger fuge/sump setup, but as Pheeshes stated "there isn't really room under the stand for it", so the next best thing would be HOB as I suggested. Any refugium is better then no refugium.

[Pheeshes]

It came down to i had to let the wife pick the stand out so it would be "pretty". there are drawers at the top that are really nice, but they shrink the cabinet space down. so when i get it home i'm going to measure the exact space i actually do have and consult the experts to see what if anything can actually fit there.

[dsn112]

Just buy a aquaclear 110 filter and convert it to a fuge, imo it works just as good if not better than that cpr one, and costs alot less.

[masonicman]

Pheeshes, I feel you on the wife thing. The new funiture my wife got for the family room were my tank is at, It's hard for me getting full access to my bottom cabinet. I have a nice tall size canopy that I modified the back and you can not see anything in the back of the tank. Some times we have to give a little to get alot.

[masonicman]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought about using my old 110 as a HOB refugium. I have two of them sitting in my fish storage closet. Man....... I just checked...........same demension as the refugium I purchased. Oh well:confused:

[papagimp]

Pheeshes, fwiw, as far as limited sump space goes, I've got two 75g's running on the same 20g Long sump/fuge, had a 55g with a 10g sump/fuge, both setups had extremely small sump/fuges for the size of the tanks, but both have made massive diffferences. So even if all you can work with is a 10g size sump, that's better than none.

Will say this much though, lol, wish my tank had drawers on the stand. Instead I have loads of food containers and other "junk" sitting on my light fixtures all the time, so unsightly. My wife didn't care about 'pretty' , she just wanted our stands/tanks to match, lol.

[steri]

I have space issues as well so this is what I did:

I have a HOB refugium modded out of an old Penquin filter.

I also run 2 canister filters on my reef tank. Inside the canisters I have LR instead of running the regular media. I have found that this works as far as providing a home to tons of pods. I have tons of pods in my canisters!

Hope that helps!

[pablodub01]

I don't have a sump... I basically have equipment hidden behind the live rock :)

[papagimp]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11382727#post11382727 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by masonicman
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!! I never thought about using my old 110 as a HOB refugium. I have two of them sitting in my fish storage closet. Man....... I just checked...........same demension as the refugium I purchased. Oh well:confused:

This is why I HIGHLY recommend a visit to the DIY forums prior to many equpiment purchases. They're so many ways to save money and wind up with a product just as good if not better than pre-manufactured units. Now some stuff I like to have the "real thing" such as my koralia's instead of a modded maxijet, I like the look of Koralia'a better, but for something like a sump or fuge, functionality over appearance any day.

[masonicman]

Steri, The pods don't get blown around in you canister? What type of canisters do you have?

[masonicman]

I have a magnum 350 canister. Should I throw live rock in that? I have a small HOB aqua filter up top for running carbon when I need to. I just can't see how pods can survive with all that water flow in a canister.

[crossi92]

I have the Aquafuge hang on back fuge and love it. I was even able to fit my heater in it to hide that, can't do that with a canister or the Aquaclear 110. I also don't agree with the statement that a HOB fuge is not as good a sump based one. With the hang on fuge you don't have pods going through pump propellers and getting forced of through piping and hopefully survivng the trip into the tank. With a hang on, they just flow right into the tank as they please, without harm. I have tons of them in the tank and fuge, and Mandy (my Mandarin) stays fat!

[masonicman]

kool

[steri]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11382776#post11382776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by masonicman
Steri, The pods don't get blown around in you canister? What type of canisters do you have?

I have a Magnum 350 and a Rena Filstar XP2. No they don't get blown around at all. Actually, I will frequently watch them in there. They crawl around in the filter as if everything was normal. I'm sure it happens that they get blown around at times, but I never see it. They just seem to constantly be walking around with no problems. Look at it like this, the ocean has a ton more current and water movement then most of us ever have in our tanks.

I also have a lot of tube worms in my canisters now.

Hope that helps.

[steri]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11382799#post11382799 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by masonicman
I have a magnum 350 canister. Should I throw live rock in that? I have a small HOB aqua filter up top for running carbon when I need to. I just can't see how pods can survive with all that water flow in a canister.

That's what I did. In the black compartment (where you would normally put the carbon and what not), that is where I put the LR in my Magnum 350. I think I was only able to get about 2lbs...maybe 3 in the Magnum. The Filstar I have is more boxy and open. I was able to get about 5-pounds of LR in that one. I also run carbon out of the Filstar from time to time, which is the only media I use.

[papagimp]

With the hang on fuge you don't have pods going through pump propellers and getting forced of through piping and hopefully survivng the trip into the tank.

I just can't see how pods can survive with all that water flow in a canister.


Ocean has alot more flow than a sump would. surviving the trip north to the display tank is hardly an issue with pods. Their just to small and the nauplii are even smaller. A smaller HOB unit is definatly not as effective due to just simple space limitations. Can only fit so many pods in that area, and while that number may be extremely high, it's nowhere near what you'd get with a standard under the stand type fuge.

Heck, my canister (fluval 405) has what, around 300ish gph, and many other models are similar in flow and operation, my display tank has loads more flow than that.

[bsaastad]

I managed to get a sump under my 52 gal. I measured the space and had one built to fit. Ended up being kind of long and narrow, but held about 15 gallons and gave me a place keep my heater and skimmer. I think it was less than a hundred dollars to have it built. Just an option.

[Norward]

following this thread with great interest as I have the same need/size problem for my 29g tank/cabinet. I have been considering removing the hood from my tank so I can move the HOB AC Remora to the short side of the tank (the tank is in a corner) and add a HOB refugium to the back. I have a Penguin 200 running off the back now for carbon filtration in addition to the skimmer.

So if I read these posts right, I may accomplish a minimal fuge for pods by pulling the filter out of the Penguin and adding some small pieces of LR in there? Unlike the AC 110, the Penguin 200 is opaque black rather than clear so no light in their except for a little through the top cover. With my current set-up, what do folks recommend so I can maintain a pod population?

[steri]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11383652#post11383652 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Norward


So if I read these posts right, I may accomplish a minimal fuge for pods by pulling the filter out of the Penguin and adding some small pieces of LR in there?

Bingo! That's exactly what I did. You can get 2 lbs of LR in that filter easily! 3-4 pounds easy if you use rubble. Wait a month, and you will be amazed at how much stuff is moving around in there! That's a promise!

Ya, the lighting situation stinks, but I for some reason don't think pods care too much about that ;) I just put macro in my main display behind some of my rocks, so it is hidden from sight. The only issue I have with that is that my angels, blue tang, and wrasse enjoy the treat, so I have to get macro from other reefers about one a month or so, which doesn't tend to be a hassle, as most I know will give the stuff away.

Once I did this and saw how easily I was gettign pod growth, I duplicated the process in my canisters, and got even more growth!

Now, don't get me wrong, I personally think a sump is 10 times better of an option then what I have going, but for those that don't have the space for a sump, you can do very well with a HOB filter and a canister or 2 if you use them wisely so that they don't become nitrate factories :thumbsup:

[crossi92]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11383585#post11383585 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by papagimp
Ocean has alot more flow than a sump would. surviving the trip north to the display tank is hardly an issue with pods. Their just to small and the nauplii are even smaller. A smaller HOB unit is definatly not as effective due to just simple space limitations. Can only fit so many pods in that area, and while that number may be extremely high, it's nowhere near what you'd get with a standard under the stand type fuge.

Heck, my canister (fluval 405) has what, around 300ish gph, and many other models are similar in flow and operation, my display tank has loads more flow than that.

But the ocean water isn't forced through a propeller. Not trying to argue here, just saying that a hob fuge will do the job just fine.

[papagimp]

Oh i agree, it will do the job just fine, just not as effective. I know it sounds like i'm arguing, I don't mean to, lol. The propellars just are not an issue. If we were talking about the massively larger grammarus shrimps (occasionally they'll get over an inch in length) those would get chopped up I'm sure, but for the most part we're getting loads of pod naupllii and smaller coepods shotting through the pump and they just arn't effected. I used to think the same thing, that my impellar must be killing alot of my pods. IME, that's just not the case and not worth worrying over, if you have pods in the fuge, you have plenty making it to the display. And for the record, when i do say an HOB isn't as effective, I'm speaking more for the macro algae growing purposes than the pods purposes. Any small fuge would make a difference with pods, as long as theirs a place for em to breed. I"m sure alot of the waves crashing down on the reefs do alot more "damage" than the impellars would, but I see what you're saying.

I think steri said it perfectly:

"Now, don't get me wrong, I personally think a sump is 10 times better of an option then what I have going, but for those that don't have the space for a sump, you can do very well with a HOB filter and a canister or 2 if you use them wisely so that they don't become nitrate factories "

words of wisdom right there :D

[nattarbox]

This thread is very interesting, glad I made it here after wading through some search results. I've been interested in setting up a small nano tank, but am not really a fan of the curved corners with the popular all-in-one setups.

I would like to reduce visible equipment and increase the volume of water and live rock in the system, but drilling a small tank for a sump doesn't make much sense. I was thinking a large canister filter like the Fluval 405 (have had a great experience with the 404 running on a large turtle tank, almost 2 years of continuous operation now) or Eheim Pro II (includes a heater, which is another piece of equipment taken care of) would be a good way to deal with this. You could dedicate the majority of the filter media space to live rock and rubble, and then save one container for use with carbon or phosphate remover if needed.

Glad to hear others are having success with this. I wasn't sure if some of the beneficial organisms on live rock required exposure to light or not, which was my main hang up in going forward with this.