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kware
12/15/2007, 12:58 AM
I'm still not sure what the exact function and differences between a sump and a refugium are. I know you can put lights and liverock in a refugium,(don't know why) and sumps are for cleaning purposes. How do you have a sump with a glass tank with no overflow in the corner . If anybody can describe these two things in detale it would seriously help.
I just discovered this website and think it's great. It's like having a bunch of marine biologist on call
thanks guys!

kau_cinta_ku
12/15/2007, 01:10 AM
http://www.melevsreef.com/sump.html

killagoby
12/15/2007, 01:12 AM
Sump- Gives you extra volume of water and a place to contain your goodies. Ex. skimmer, heater, pumps.

Refugium- May contain all, one, or a combination of these. Deep sand bed (for critters and denitratification) Algae (for keeping the Ph stable and converting toxins in the water) Live rock (more filtration), pods for food, worms, ect.

If you don't have a reef ready tank with a built in overflow you need to buy a HOB overflow. CPR makes them. I prefer a refugium with a DSB, LR, and algae. I run my lights 24/7 so the algae does not go sexual and the Ph stays stable at night.

kware
12/15/2007, 01:22 AM
is there anything in this hobby that's cheap and easy!

kau_cinta_ku
12/15/2007, 01:26 AM
cheap not really, but easy depending how how you look at things

kware
12/15/2007, 01:27 AM
thanks guys

uscharalph
12/15/2007, 02:05 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11388649#post11388649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kware
is there anything in this hobby that's cheap and easy! LOL!!!

K' Family Reef
12/15/2007, 10:57 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11388649#post11388649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kware
is there anything in this hobby that's cheap and easy!

how bout this???
not pertty but its very versatile, effective and practical!... not to mention the only thing that will fit into the space i have to work with.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/WarrenAmyMadelinne/stage2-stage1.jpg

cost maybe 12bucks and some change for sump/fuge
fuge lite was 20 bulb/fixture and yet very effective
few dollars here there for misc items - then it was up and running!

if your tank is not drilled
the most expensive thing might be to get a hob overflow so you can get a sump installed... but the sump doesnt have to be expensive as it does practical/effective

search around this site
there are a lot of inexpensive options for setting up a system... i am impressed w/ many of the ideas that so many come up w/ here on RC... might take a loook at diy forum for more ideas etc


regards

papagimp
12/15/2007, 11:10 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11388649#post11388649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kware
is there anything in this hobby that's cheap and easy!

This hobby is about as cheap as it is quick.

Patience and willingness to learn a few DIY projects can save lot's of money.

Sk8r
12/15/2007, 11:16 AM
Water falls down a hose by gravity from your main tank, runs through sump, meets skimmer, heater, autotopoff, and possibly refugium-area, then, having been cleaned, heated, salinity-balanced, and possibly carrying some nice fat copepods, is sucked up by the return pump and lifted back to your tank.

Cycle repeats endlessly.

Bandsaw
12/15/2007, 12:43 PM
WarrenAmy&Maddy, nice setup. I was looking at using those rubbermaid containers for my fuge when I was in the planning stage but could not get an answer from rubbermaid on any risk of chemical leaching. Have you had any problems?

I ended up picking up a 20g tall glass tank for $10 and had the tank drilled and am using that for my fuge.

kware, another nice thing about a sump is you can move the sump to another room so you can keep the noise generating equipment out of the living room and keep the peace with your better half :)

K' Family Reef
12/15/2007, 01:24 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11390397#post11390397 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bandsaw
WarrenAmy&Maddy, nice setup. I was looking at using those rubbermaid containers for my fuge when I was in the planning stage but could not get an answer from rubbermaid on any risk of chemical leaching. Have you had any problems?

I ended up picking up a 20g tall glass tank for $10 and had the tank drilled and am using that for my fuge.

kware, another nice thing about a sump is you can move the sump to another room so you can keep the noise generating equipment out of the living room and keep the peace with your better half :)

chemical leaching?
not that i am aware of... iow everything appears atleast to be thriving... had read somewhere online/RC that the plastic in these particular containers was 'supposed to be' safe... seems to be a lot of folks using them as well either as sumps or fuges/both...

did you use your 20 as dedicated fuge or sump/fuge combo?

luckily re noise
about all that is heard from my system is a very fine feint trickle of water (no vibrations or pumps etc)... it sits in the living room and is very pleasant to hear.

the fuge pictured above
is actually the 2d fuge on this system... its kept on 24hour liting... mainly to help ph - the chaeto in the above pic now fills up that bin

there is another 50gal display fuge
sitting under main... full of more chaeto, lots of xenia frags, gsp, = all for nutrient export... then various other zoanthids, polyps etc (piece of this piece of that)... 90% of water in system flows thru this fuge via pump from skimmer stage... it then overflows into the return/fuge in the back (shown in pic above)

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/WarrenAmyMadelinne/sideFTS-fuge.jpg

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc130/WarrenAmyMadelinne/refugium02.jpg

scouncil
12/15/2007, 02:17 PM
I'm switching from a 100gal reef tank with W/D to a 220gal that I want to use a refugium with. How big does the refugium need to be? I'm putting it below the tank in the stand and I've looked at Melev's reef site, but am unsure of how big to make each section? I'm emailing Marc too, but thought I would post here.

(and these threads get lost in all the postings, I'm new and sometimes can't find the posts, so PM me if you have fab suggestions or post the link back to this thread in you PM- sorry!)
Susan

Bandsaw
12/15/2007, 02:32 PM
My fuge is seperate from the sump. These pictures are kind of old now. I really should take some new pictures for posting.

scouncil, I would say the bigger the better with at least 20% of your total water volume dedicated to a fuge.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/bandsaw/Water%20and%20Equipment%20Room/07-10-07-WaterRoom3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/bandsaw/Water%20Room%20Refugium/07-10-07-20gfuge3.jpg

K' Family Reef
12/15/2007, 02:44 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11390843#post11390843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scouncil
I'm switching from a 100gal reef tank with W/D to a 220gal that I want to use a refugium with. How big does the refugium need to be? I'm putting it below the tank in the stand and I've looked at Melev's reef site, but am unsure of how big to make each section? I'm emailing Marc too, but thought I would post here.

(and these threads get lost in all the postings, I'm new and sometimes can't find the posts, so PM me if you have fab suggestions or post the link back to this thread in you PM- sorry!)
Susan

susan
click on MY RC at the top of the page - it will show you all the threads (postings) you have posted on or have subsribed to... a 'thread' can be subscribed to at the very bottom after all the postings... there will be a thing to click on that says 'subscribe to this thread' - when you do this it will show up when you click on MY RC.

regards

K' Family Reef
12/15/2007, 02:51 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11390843#post11390843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scouncil
I'm switching from a 100gal reef tank with W/D to a 220gal that I want to use a refugium with. How big does the refugium need to be? I'm putting it below the tank in the stand and I've looked at Melev's reef site, but am unsure of how big to make each section? I'm emailing Marc too, but thought I would post here.

(and these threads get lost in all the postings, I'm new and sometimes can't find the posts, so PM me if you have fab suggestions or post the link back to this thread in you PM- sorry!)
Susan

susan i would take your old 100
and convert it into your new fuge!...

when/if we upgrade
planning on going to 210 then using either a 75 that is sitting in our garage or purchasing a 100 as a dedicated fuge/2d viewing tank... then having a custom stand made to accomdate the fuge below main tank in the same was as shown in the above pics i posted...

K' Family Reef
12/15/2007, 02:55 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11390927#post11390927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bandsaw
My fuge is seperate from the sump. These pictures are kind of old now. I really should take some new pictures for posting.

scouncil, I would say the bigger the better with at least 20% of your total water volume dedicated to a fuge.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/bandsaw/Water%20and%20Equipment%20Room/07-10-07-WaterRoom3.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e145/bandsaw/Water%20Room%20Refugium/07-10-07-20gfuge3.jpg


looks great!
you're lucky to have a dedicated fish room in your house to put everything!...

thought about it but only option is to go into the garage -
but already have difficult enough time keeping temps down in the summer - temps get up to 110-120 in the desert during summer mos! (garage is incredibly hot during these mos too)

regards

scouncil
12/15/2007, 03:45 PM
So the fuge needs to be about 45 gallons and I guess that I can have a common area for the return pump to be in.

Can I put a first section (with skimmer) that flows into the fuge and then into a return area (in sequence), or do you think that this will put too much flow through the fuge and I need to have a separate skimmer area with higher flow (though not higher volume than the fuge- I won't have enough room) with a fuge on the opposite side that drains into a common area like Marc's system here- http://www.aquariumpros.ca/forums/ext.php?ref=http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/sumps/f/sump_f.html?

scouncil
12/21/2007, 01:29 PM
OK, cycling back to the top- I need an answer- I've looked into making a refugium out of acrylic (83 gal- 1 sheet of acrylic $223), but I can purchase a 75 gal glass tank from my LFS for $199.

Can I make the refugium be 35 gals? Is that enough? I know the bigger the better, I'm just not sure that i can divide the 75 gal up into 3 larger areas. I know the skimmer area, just needs to fit the skimmer....

Bandsaw
12/21/2007, 07:04 PM
scouncil, 35g are fine. It's better than nothing. I started out with a 4 gal fuge.

The flow through your sump should only be as fast as what can be processed by your skimmer and fuge. Else wise your will be returning unprocessed water back to the display.

I would say the flow into and out of the fuge should be rather slow to allow the algae to process the water. Once the water is in the fuge, though, the flow should be so that the cheato (assuming you are going to use cheato) is kept moving around or tumbling as it does best this way.

I would think what you are suggesting with the skimmer in the first section with the flow going through the fuge is fine.

Perhaps the best fuge that I have seen for keeping cheato thumbing was a simple 5 gal salt pail with a light over to and a single large power head keeping the water twisting in one direction. Some of the happiest cheato that I have ever seen.

scouncil
12/21/2007, 07:26 PM
So I don't really need the deep sand on the bottom and critters running around? Just Chaeto being blown around with a light on it? I've got a Coral Life super skimmer 220 and a Supreme MagDrive 1800. Somebody suggested putting the skimmer on one end and the refugium on the other and have the return pump in a section in the middle with the flow from the tank coming into the skimmer area and then the return pump putting flow partially back up to the tank and partially to the refugium. That way the flow to the refugium would be about half of the flow. Does that sound like a plan, or do you thing that the refugium could handle that much flow? (wouldn't mind the sand bed with little beasties running around with the cyclone of chaeto....)

Bandsaw
12/22/2007, 04:56 AM
The opinion is mixed on the deep sand bed in a refugium. Some like it and some don't. Sand beds don't get along well with high currents as you can imagine. You could go with some small pieces of live rock or a sand bed with live rock on top. I set my refugium up with two chambers. The first is filled to the top with live rock. The second has about 3" of miracle mud with my bigger pieces of live rock on top to help keep the sand bed stay put.

The cheato ball it self will harbor all kinds of critters. Don't need to worry about that. In fact some folks are absolutely opposed to a sand bed in a fuge. The choice would be yours. I think if I had to do it again, I would probably skip the and just go with a live rock rubble bottom.

Having the return in the center of your sump is similar to what I am doing. I draw water via MJ400 from the first section of the sump (where the water comes in but before the skimmer) and pump it to the fuge. That way the most nutrient rich water gets into the fuge. The output of the fuge then dumps back into the sumps return area.

Another idea that I think is better for you instead of messing around with the return is put a tee in your water line from the overflow of your display tank. Put a ball valve in the branch that leads to the refugium. The branch that leads to your sump can be left straight through. In this way, you can regulate the flow through the refugium. A power head in fuge will keep the cheato happy and the cheato will get the most nutrient rich water.

scouncil
12/22/2007, 08:47 AM
OK, I'll skip the sand. I've got crushed coral on the bottom of my current tank which is maybe .25 inch rubble like pieces. It's not very prone to blowing around, so I'll put some of it in there with some of the live rock and let the Chaeto float around. I have some small pumps in my current tank and was planning on putting my current return pump in my new tank for flow. I've seen some tiny stars in my tank before that I had no idea what they were, so I know I've got some beasties in there already. Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it!!