Nitrates just not dropping!

[cy88]

Hi all,

I have this tank setup for around 6 months, and the nitrates is just not dropping! It's sitting at 40, sometimes higher, sometimes slightly lower.

This is my setup:
http://www.chrisyiu.com/images_personal/20G/1.JPG
http://www.chrisyiu.com/images_personal/20G/2.JPG

20G, 2 drop in filter, 175GPH pump, heater, around 15lbs LR, 1 - 1.5" sand bed.

Life stocks:
2 Percula clown
3 turbo snails
1 star fish
4 crabs

I have a feeling that it's my filters, any insights?

Thanks,
Chris

[cy88]

Forgot to add, the lighting is just some florescent lights. It's on around 6 hrs/day, on a timer.

I initially grabbed this startup kit from walmart without knowing much about things.. :(

[kevin2000]

My 02

That level of nitrates is not going to harm your clownfish. If you want to reduce nitrates give some thought to upping the level of water changes, cleaning your filter media more frequently, and perhaps cutting back on feeding.

Hope this helps.

[MR PALM BEACH]

More water changes and pretty much what kevin2000 has mentioned.

[jamiep]

Add some chaetomorphia macroalgae to one off the drop in box's and add a fuge light to it!

[papagimp]

More rock, and remove any/all biomedia from the one filter and the biowheel from the other. Let the rock and sand filer the tank, use those HOB's for mechanical filtering and clean them often, weekly at the minimum. Jamiep had a great idea too, use one of them, preferably the larger, and convert to hold some macro algae to help reduce nutrients.

fwiw, my 20g high, with a biowheel sits with high nitrates, about the same as yours. Fish only with few snails and they don't mind my nitrates like that. Starfish may not appreciate them much though but i've got no personal experience with that type of starfish.

[Aadler]

And test your fresh made salt water. See if it tests any nitrate.

[Sk8r]

It's your penguin filter. You need live rock and sand and no filter at all if you want to get rid of nitrate.

[ruarox]

why not make sure that your test kit is good i had an api test kit and it always said my nitrates were high lfs tested all my levels and said they were perfect i now have a hagen test that would be my first thing to check

[cy88]

Thanks all.

To summerize:
- Check my test kit
- Get rid of one of the filter
- Add in more rocks
- Possibly add in some microalgae

I know that the fishes don't mind them, but I just want to be able to control the nitrate now since I am going to setup a new 55G tanks with corals and more fishes.

:)

[sanababit]

build yourself a denitrifier, i did, it works great, brought my nitrates down from 20ppm to 0ppm in less than a month, feeding heavely and no water changes (well one water change in the whole month i ran it), you can make it for less than 80 dlls

sana

[cy88]

Hi Sana,

What is a denitrifier?

[demonsp]

Sorry but this tank dont look 6 months old.
Whats the water source?And if that filter has a wheel remove it.It only collects nitrates.

[Lotus99]

You might also try moving your powerhead down a little, it doesn't look to me like you're getting enough flow around the rocks.

[magdelan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11391965#post11391965 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ruarox
why not make sure that your test kit is good i had an api test kit and it always said my nitrates were high lfs tested all my levels and said they were perfect i now have a hagen test that would be my first thing to check

If people here were stumpped, then maybe you could double check your test kits. But the fact of the matter is that this guy is running a bio wheel and it is creating a nitrate factory.

[hybridgenius]

listen to what everyone saying... GOODBYE BIOWHEEL.

[cy88]

Thanks all.

The filter is not a biowheel. Here's a few clearer pics of the two filters:
http://www.chrisyiu.com/images_personal/20G/04.JPG
http://www.chrisyiu.com/images_personal/20G/05.JPG

The first filter has only the media in it, the second one also has a chemi-pure in it. I will adjust the powerhead.

Thanks.

[cy88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11394411#post11394411 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp
Sorry but this tank dont look 6 months old.
Whats the water source?

It was started at the beginning of June. Cycled for a month and added in livestocks at the beginning of July.

I started with tap water with water conditioner, then have switched to RO water since around 2 month ago and I have seen no dropping in nitrates.

[sokin]

What kind of RO system are you using, how old is it , and have you tested the water out of your RO ? If you bought it used the filters my need replaced and is it a RO or a water purifier?

[cy88]

I get these RO water from the stores that sells these RO water system. Haven't tested the nitrates yet on these water, and will do that now.

The filters were brand new, and filters were replaced not too long ago.

[cy88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11395929#post11395929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sokin
have you tested the water out of your RO ?

Just tested. Nitrate = 0 from RO water.

[sokin]

I'm not sure. You are going to have to divided and conquer.
You know your water isn't the issue, your test kits you said where good. Kinda looks like it may have something to do with your filters even thou they don't have bio wheels, what do you have in your filters carbon and what else?

[cy88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11396303#post11396303 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sokin
I'm not sure. You are going to have to divided and conquer.
You know your water isn't the issue, your test kits you said where good. Kinda looks like it may have something to do with your filters even thou they don't have bio wheels, what do you have in your filters carbon and what else?

Carbon and the filter cartridge. Chemi-pure in one of them.

Would it be a good idea to replace one of the filter with a HOB protein skimmer?

[sokin]

It couldn't hurt, I myself wouldn't have a system without a skimmer. Have you checked in the bottom of your filters to see if there is food breaking down in the bottoms?

[cy88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11397128#post11397128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sokin
It couldn't hurt, I myself wouldn't have a system without a skimmer. Have you checked in the bottom of your filters to see if there is food breaking down in the bottoms?

Yes, I actually cleaned them out (it wasn't that much to start with) with the extra water when i was doing water change few days ago.

[ruarox]

this guy is stumped with high nitrates and i am letting him know of my problem maybe its his to maybe not trying to help thanks for clearing that up though nice biowheel

[ArgonDreams]

Frankly something doesn't add up here.

The second filter cart looks dirty, it's brown on the outer layer, that's a bit odd. I am betting maintenance here.

What is your water change schedule?

How much do you change each time?

What are your full testing results? Amm, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH, Calcium etc?

How do you change your water?

I have a feeling in your maintenance somewhere there is something off. Not "wrong" per say but likely something we are missing.

[sanababit]

cy88, everyone here is right, they have there own ways of dealing with high nitrates, what works for some might work for you, 20 ppm is not that much nitrates, but if you are really worried about it, build yourself a sulphur based denitrifier, it is basically a phosban reactor full of no-no3 media made by carib-sea, hook a little pump to it and put a little valve on the outflow of reactor, slow the water thats coming out to about a drop a second and after 7 days you will be amazed, here are some photos
here it is cycling, for the first 7 days hook it up to a bucket so nothing goes back into your tank.
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z196/sanababit/022.jpg
and here are the results, left is the outflow of my denitrifier and right is the nitrate in my tank
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z196/sanababit/043.jpg
this is an old photo, i already have 0 nitrates in my tank, well any questions please let me know, good luck

sana

[cy88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11399819#post11399819 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ArgonDreams
Frankly something doesn't add up here.

The second filter cart looks dirty, it's brown on the outer layer, that's a bit odd. I am betting maintenance here.

What is your water change schedule?

How much do you change each time?

What are your full testing results? Amm, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH, Calcium etc?

How do you change your water?

I have a feeling in your maintenance somewhere there is something off. Not "wrong" per say but likely something we are missing.

1) I change water every 1.5 - 2wk
2) around 10-15% I change each time
3) Amm - 0, Nitrite - 0, Nitrite - 40-80 (Can't tell VERY clear from the colour, but it's up there), PH - 8.0-8.2, didn't test for Calcium (Should i?)
4) I use a seperate bucket to pre-mix the salt into the RO water, bring the water to the right temperture with a heater. Then, 10-15% of the old water is removed and replaced by the new water.

I have a strong feeling that it's really my filter, and not enough LR?

Sana, thanks for the explanation. My nitrates are sitting between 40-80ppm (I am using the same test kit as you). As I am trying to move my way towards new setup and start keeping corals, I understand that nitrate will be critical. Having that said, I think I might end up holding off on the new setup until I learn more from this smaller tank.

//Chris

[MR PALM BEACH]

Befor you invest in any thing else, buy yourself an skimmer. Hold off on the LR just get a skimmer, If anything you could elminate the HOB and just run the skimmer. It will be 100% more effective than the HOB your running.

[cy88]

Looks like my nitrate dropped a little (closer to 20 now) after I moved the power head to have the water flow through the LR more.

I think it was because of the flow of the powerhead wasn't in the right direction, so the LR wasn't doing the job and/or there isn't enough LR and flow.

Also, I think the filters are being nitrate factory as well.

[Vinnie71975]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11391071#post11391071 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamiep
Add some chaetomorphia macroalgae to one off the drop in box's and add a fuge light to it! Agree if you just want them down try getting a Breeder net like is used for fish Fry, and put Macro Algae in it.this can go right in your display. when the numbers drop take the algae out and throw it away thus exporting the bad stuff (nitrates) from the tank.

[Vinnie71975]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11469931#post11469931 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cy88
Looks like my nitrate dropped a little (closer to 20 now) after I moved the power head to have the water flow through the LR more.

I think it was because of the flow of the powerhead wasn't in the right direction, so the LR wasn't doing the job and/or there isn't enough LR and flow.

Also, I think the filters are being nitrate factory as well. i run a HOB filter and i have 0 nitrate problems!

[albfelix]

With those type of filters you will not have a lot of luck in salt water setup. They are designed for fresh water. Get a protein skimmer.

[george81]

do you want a fowlr- 20 ppm nitrates is doable, but would you like to live in a polluted environment
get more live rock you need 1.5-2 lbs per gallon....
man made denitrifyers may work...but they are man made and are a band aid....
more live rock+fuge+protien skimmer+good source water+properly maintained sand bed deep or shallow. let mother nature do her thing...it beats any man made gimmick hands down.

it sounds like you re tank never fully cycled..for you to add that much live rock in you re system would cause a cycle all over again. get the animals out and get the proper amount of live rock, let it properly cycle no animals until everything reads zero.

[cy88]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11475071#post11475071 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by george81
do you want a fowlr- 20 ppm nitrates is doable, but would you like to live in a polluted environment
get more live rock you need 1.5-2 lbs per gallon....
man made denitrifyers may work...but they are man made and are a band aid....
more live rock+fuge+protien skimmer+good source water+properly maintained sand bed deep or shallow. let mother nature do her thing...it beats any man made gimmick hands down.

it sounds like you re tank never fully cycled..for you to add that much live rock in you re system would cause a cycle all over again. get the animals out and get the proper amount of live rock, let it properly cycle no animals until everything reads zero.

Thanks all. I will leave the setup as is right now since I am building a new 75G with a sump. I just wanted to update this thread incase someone else in the same shoes, this might be useful for them :)

I will keep here posted for my new tank, though.