berlin or ecosystem method filtration?

[krusty23]

hi all,

i was wondering what type of filtration system i should buy for my new tank.

Berlin? i.e. mechanical filtration & skimmer (probably the tunze reefpack)

or Ecosystem? sump/refugium with some kind of mudfilter (miracle, fiji or some other kind) + macroalgae w 24/7 lighting & skimmerless?

Which one is easier to maintain water parameters at optimal level as a noob? Which is best for the animals, polyp extension, coral & fish health, & the like?

Is there a good thread discussing this topic (couldn't find any)?

btw my tank is going to be about 40g

advice would be much appreciated.

[jimbo78]

probably going to want a skimmer reguardless

[ricks]

You will find many opinions on this. I prefer BB, fuge and large skimmer. Works for me, might not work for everyone..

Happy Reefing

[killagoby]

I'd do the skimmer with a fuge for a RDSB and macro algae.

[jimbo78]

i use skimmer, fuge with DSB, LR, and cheato. i also have 130or so lbs of LR in a 90g tank

[krusty23]

thanks for the advice.

you all seem to be using both means of filtration.

It is not a good idea then, to run an aquarium with just one type of filtration?

[jimbo78]

there are some people on here that just use their LR , powerheads, and a skimmer. you will find that there are very very few people that aren't using a skimmer reguardless of how the rest of their filtration is set up.

[papagimp]

I am in the middle of setting up a tank i plan to follow the ecosystem 100% to see how I like that whole "no skimmer, miracle mud" thing. It's relatively new so more people are using skimmers and the classic filtration methods, I've found it difficult to get good feedback on this type of set, just not running into alot of users of this setup.

I can say this much, it better work great, the cost of all that mud required is about the same as a skimmer anyways. lol.

[seapug]

I think the combination of the two is what is now called the "Natural Method." Seems to be working well nowadays-- Live Rock, Live sand, in line or sump refugium with macroalgae on reverse or 24/7 lighting combined with aggressive protein skimming.

My NC HQI is set up that way and it is working remarkably well even with only the wimpy stock skimmer. The filtration is a small bag of chemi pure and a wad chaetomorpha, nothing else. I had none of the usual "brown sand" phases, almost zero hair algae growth, the water is crystal clear, and the microfauna population is booming.

[ricks]

Mud... It just sounds funny. I have a post in large tank forum. Our 500 gallon, check it out. BB with fuge and large skimmer. No sand or mud to be found. And very little detritus thanks to extreme flow not possible with sand bed...

Just my .2 cents

[krusty23]

again thanks a lot for your advice, i appreciate it.

the "natural method" (fuge + skimmer) it will probably be. Since I don't have the necessary cash to buy both fuge and skimmer at the same time, i'm thinking about starting out with one of them.

What about starting with a fuge and maybe later on buying a skimmer? I figure the plumbing is best done before starting a tank with a proper overflow box and everything.

Or is it a very bad thing to start skimmerless? What about later on adding a fuge (with an add-on overflow box like cpr's, or plain hob?), is that much worse than the solution where the fuge is part of the integral design of the tank?

Or is it just best to save up a little bit longer and then get both skimmer and fuge to start with?

[ricks]

You need to figure what your interested in keeping. Do the research like this. I say buy all the equipment first and the tank last. That way everything is set up and ready to go. I personally wouldn't run a reef tank without a skimmer. I know some people do though..

[seapug]

You can plumb or build a refugium pretty easy after the fact and they tend to work better once a tank has cycled and settled, so I'd get the skimmer first. Refugiums are helpful with long term health and maintenance, but a skimmer is hugely beneficial from day 1.

Also, if you do some looking around you can find a sump that can be converted into a refugium quite easily.

[jimbo78]

better to save and get both to start with. you can make your own sump/fuge for under $100. i would never pay what those ones they sell premade cost. and you can get a decent skimmer for under $150. i have a proclear aquatics rated for 125g on my 90 i think they cost about 145 with the pump. i like it they have a smaller model (75g) i think that would work good if your tank is going to be 40g with a sump fuge

[sanababit]

natural method=berlin style, i read somewhere where berlin filtration is basically using live rock and live sand for filtration (for a reef tank) supplemented with a skimmer, you can always add a refugium/macroalgae, there are other methods like plenum filtration and artificial filtration. do a little more research and you will find some more info on these.

sana

[krusty23]

again, thanks a lot.

upon research and your responses i figured the pros and cons of each solution are as follows(correct me, if i'm wrong, because i surely am):

+skimmer-fuge:
pros : little docs
clear water
cons:higher need of mineral dosage, since the skimmer pulls some out
probably kills off some plankton and other helpful organisms? maybe even pods?

-skimmer+fuge:
pros : pod population and algae as an extra food source
maybe higher population of plankton(although i heard it's hard to have any, anyhow)?
beneficial substances secreted by macro-algae for fish health
cons: higher amount of docs (this would be the crucial point in arguing for a skimmer as you do, right?)
maybe yellowing of the water (also with 24/7 lighting)?

+skimmer+fuge
pros : as the two above minus the questionable increased plancton
minus maybe the macroalgae substances
cons: as skimmer

Anyway i want to keep lps, clams, zoas, and some shrooms, no sps. Nothing to fancy or too hard. the tank is going to be about 40g with 150w 10000k MH and 2x18W of 20000k t5s.
Anyway the lamp is bought, so that's what i'm going with, might have to adjust what i want to keep to that.

After the lighting headache, now it's the filtratrion headache. But being the nerd i am, i kind of enjoy it:p

[ricks]

Sounds like you have been doing some research.. Have a fuge built in your sump some skimmers can also fit under tank. Make sure to have surface extraction AKA overflows. Otherwise skimmer will not function properly..