Microbubbles!!! and tank pics

[Derek03]

I have been fighting this fight for a couple of weeks now and I am out of ideas.

I have a 8x2x2 240 gal display and an MRC large reef sump which is around 80 gal. I am using a barracuda as a return pump. There is 5 baffels in the sump but the water flows through so fast the it goes over the top of the first 4. The way the sump is setup, there is a large compartment on the left which houses my MR-2 skimmer. The right is split down the center into two sections. One side is a refuge and the other is the part that houses the baffels.

I seem the get most of the bubbles coming from the skimmer and a smaller portion coming from the tank drain. I have put a piece of eggcrate with filter floss in front of the baffel section but I am still getting a load of bubbles in the display. This is driving me nuts because the display water looks dirty.

I am hoping some of you with large flow sumps can give me some suggestions.

Here are some pictures
Sump:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa217/derek03_02/DSC_0387.jpg

Sump left:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa217/derek03_02/DSC_0386.jpg

Sump right: The refuge looks dirty because my circ pump slipped and blew the sand up.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa217/derek03_02/DSC_0385.jpg

Tank:
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa217/derek03_02/DSC_0378.jpg

Just for kicks, my first addition. I also added 10 blue leg hermets and 5 snails.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa217/derek03_02/DSC_0383.jpg

[Elliott]

what happens if you crank down the return pump a little, decreasing flow through the sump and allowing the bubbles to resolve before getting in the display? I see it's wide open in the photo

[Derek03]

I have slowed the pump down for just a few minutes when I was doing my water test. The problem is the pump starts to get increasingly loud with every line I shut down.

I was hoping to run it wide open because I want to keep SPS and every bit of flow helps.

I will play around with it some and see if it helps.

[Elliott]

you should have a ball valve on the pump output near the pump, partially close the valve to slow flow through your sump. you want about 2 - 5 x turnover (of display volume) per hour through your sump to allow enough time for gas exchange. higher flow is desirable only in your display where your sps will be.

the barracuda is a powerful pump for a sump return, if you don't want to turn it down try connecting eductors to return output(s), they will increase flow in the display by pulling in surrounding water, while decreasing flow behind them in your sump due to the back pressure they cause. alternatively, you can use a dart pump instead.

[todrick]

it looks in the pic of ur sump that ur water level is to high u dont need the water flowing over all the baffles

[Derek03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11452563#post11452563 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by todrick
it looks in the pic of ur sump that ur water level is to high u dont need the water flowing over all the baffles

If the water gets any lower it wont process over the baffels fast enough to keep up with the pump.

I like the eductor idea. The way its set up now is the eight returns are Y'ed inside the tank with loc-line. Is there an eductor that will connect to loc-line?

[ricks]

Is that the only pump on your system... If so you will not have enough flow for SPS. If I remember that pump is about 4,000 per hour, and they are not pressure rated. You are probably getting somewhere around 3,000, after head loss. You are getting somewhere around 12- 15 x's hour. Need to shoot for 30x's +..

Your sump looks undersized and that front compartment is way to small for that size pump... I have a 300 gallon sump on my 500 gallon. And don't try to push anywhere near that kind of flow threw it. I would try a larger sump, closed loop, sea swirl with bulkhead suction from the tank. Or add some tunze on multicontroller...

Also do you have anywhere for the water to go if that filter floss get dirty/ clogged??? Water has a funny way of sneaking up on you... That sump also looks very full.. What happens when you shut the power off??? Will it handle your tank backflow water???

Just a few question,..

Happy Reefing

[Elliott]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11452860#post11452860 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Derek03
If the water gets any lower it wont process over the baffels fast enough to keep up with the pump.

I like the eductor idea. The way its set up now is the eight returns are Y'ed inside the tank with loc-line. Is there an eductor that will connect to loc-line?

yes, you can buy female thread connecters for your locline that will accept male threaded eductors

[Derek03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11453026#post11453026 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ricks
Is that the only pump on your system...

Your sump looks undersized and that front compartment is way to small for that size pump...

Also do you have anywhere for the water to go if that filter floss get dirty/ clogged??? Water has a funny way of sneaking up on you... That sump also looks very full.. What happens when you shut the power off??? Will it handle your tank backflow water???

Just a few question,..

Happy Reefing

That is the only pump at the moment. This is just the bare minimum to get the cycle started. My plan is to add at least 2 vortecs and let the tank get established before adding any hard corals. I still need to finish a lot of things up. Things are moving slow since I work 2 jobs and my wife just had our first baby 4 months ago.

I wish I could have done a bigger sump but at the time but the budget didnt allow it. It is supposed to be 80+ gallons. Hopefully I can upgrade after a little while.

The sump does look a little full but the pictures are a little decieving. There is enough room for backflow. That was one of the first things I checked. The filter floss was just quick attemp to stop bubbles from the skimmer. Im not sure if it is going to work or not. I will just have to keep an eye on it for dirt. That shouldnt be much of a problem since I am in there so much.

[ricks]

Watch the Vortecs I saw a post where the acrylic was almost melting form the pump heat. Had some real severe crazing/cracks. They were not recommending them for acrylic tanks. Anyone else see this post???

Good luck with the wife and kids.. I started out the same way many years ago. Now both kids are in college, as long as the tuition and bills are paid I have clear sailing.. After all the years wife's cool..

Happy Reefing

[tattooreef]

i have also had this problem, only with a much bigger tank and sump. i was using the same pump and all, the barracuda just does mot work well as a return pump for the simple fact that it is running water waaaayyy too fast through your sump, it did the same in mine and my sump at the time was 6 ft long. youneed to use that pump for a closed loop and just use a small pump roughly 1200 gph thats what i did and my water is now crystal clear. plus you enhance the fact of having a fuge with slower water flow going through it, you will get better filtration out of your sand bed and algaes if the water is moving slower through it.

[Derek03]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11459516#post11459516 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tattooreef
i have also had this problem, only with a much bigger tank and sump. i was using the same pump and all, the barracuda just does mot work well as a return pump for the simple fact that it is running water waaaayyy too fast through your sump, it did the same in mine and my sump at the time was 6 ft long. youneed to use that pump for a closed loop and just use a small pump roughly 1200 gph thats what i did and my water is now crystal clear. plus you enhance the fact of having a fuge with slower water flow going through it, you will get better filtration out of your sand bed and algaes if the water is moving slower through it.

Yea I think your probably right. I might get a dart instead of the barracuda.

The fuge is a seperate compartment from the sump though that is controlled by a ballvalve and gravity fed. I have the water going pretty slow through that area.

[tattooreef]

i would personaly keep the barracuda and just use a small pump like a blueline 40 hdx or equivalent of around 1000 to 1200 gph for your return, because having the barracuda as a closed loop would be awesome in that tank for flow.

[mm949]

put a felt filter bag on the skimmer....no more bubbles....i have a hammerhead on my 300's and have no bubble issues

[tattooreef]

mm949, im pretty sure his microbubble is not coming from the skimmer, as i had the exact same problem, it is a simple fact that the water isnt slowing enough coming through the sump therefor not letting the bubbles break up from the fall into the tank, then being pumped back into the tank, and then right back down the overflow, and then being added by more microbubble. like i said earlier in this thread i had the exact same problem, and tried the filter media as he has and it didnt work for me either. and i didnt even have a skimmer running at that time. but i do see the point you are making and a lot of times it may be the skimmer, but i almost 100% sure that in this case it is not.

[reefsahoy]

did the pump come with a downsizing coupling on the intake? if so did you remove it? If you restrict the flow between the sump and pump by turning the valve slightly, do the micro bubbles increase?

[Derek03]

There wasnt a downsize coupling included with the pump. It has a 1.5" intake and output.

The bubbles are coming from a mixture of the skimmer and line coming from the tank. The filter floss seems to knock most of them down but they buildup and a few get through.