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VaderWS6
12/29/2007, 07:44 PM
Have any of you received your Xtreme skimmer from Marine Solutions yet? I wonder how much longer we're gonna have to wait? :hmm2:

mg426
12/29/2007, 07:52 PM
Their website says that the Extremes are still in transit.

badazztealcobra
12/29/2007, 08:11 PM
Theyre stuck in customs would be my guess.... Sometimes that can take awhile....

VaderWS6
12/29/2007, 08:35 PM
Well I hope its at least shipped to us sometime in the month of January.. :sad2:

axia55
12/29/2007, 08:39 PM
Man, I can't wait for someone to get theirs so I can get a review!

greenhut
12/29/2007, 10:16 PM
I just ordered - have they billed our credit cards before shipping? I don't know that I'd let it go past 30 days if so...

MrSquid
12/29/2007, 10:52 PM
I really need to have my live rock into my tank sometime the week of the 7th (my vacation week) - which means I really need a skimmer by then.

When I heard last week that they were held up in customs, I figured it'd be a wait. Unfortunately if they don't have anything more to tell me by the end of this coming week, I'm probably going to have to cancel my order and pick a different skimmer. :(

It's already held up my project quite a bit, and my wife's patience is running REALLY thin with our dining area being consumed by this build. Even if I had the place spotless and was just waiting for the skimmer, she'd go ballistic knowing that my choice to go with the latest and (hopefully) greatest is giving a longer wait before we can get something into it.

werdlone
12/30/2007, 09:02 AM
greenhut... I just ordered - have they billed our credit cards before shipping? I don't know that I'd let it go past 30 days if so...

I paid with paypal and got an email confirming the purchase....so yes, they have billed the card already. I know that it will take some time in customs, but it would be nice to hear from MS about the status.

badazztealcobra
12/30/2007, 10:07 AM
What kind of skimmer are you going to get if you ABSOLUTELY need to have it by next week... Personally I think you'll end up kicking yourself if you pass up on the prices of these skimmers and they perform like we're all hoping/expecting. Youre not going to get near the same amount of skimmer for your money IMO.

Put your display together and start cycling everything without the skimmer... then when it comes in just throw it into the sump.

bdif
12/30/2007, 10:15 AM
I talked to the owner yesterday. They are 30 miles away from their warehouse at a transit trucking dock. I would imagine that even after they recieve them, there will be a pretty long (1-2 wk) gap before they ship them. No one there has ever even seen one in person. The don't even know what the footprints are. He mentioned something about modding them also before shipping. I have no idea what this meant...

Mr James
12/30/2007, 10:32 AM
by badazztealcobra
Theyre stuck in customs would be my guess.... Sometimes that can take awhile....

I would take this into consideration before ordering this skimmer, regardless of price.

daytonreefRob
12/30/2007, 08:59 PM
[violation]

luke33
12/30/2007, 09:32 PM
Good stuff. Thanks for the update as it finally stops the wondering for many.

bkelley02
12/30/2007, 09:57 PM
daytonreefRob,

Can you comment on what the 'modding' comment might be referring to?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11483442#post11483442 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bdif
I talked to the owner yesterday. They are 30 miles away from their warehouse at a transit trucking dock. I would imagine that even after they recieve them, there will be a pretty long (1-2 wk) gap before they ship them. No one there has ever even seen one in person. The don't even know what the footprints are. He mentioned something about modding them also before shipping. I have no idea what this meant...

MrSquid
12/30/2007, 10:30 PM
:D :D :D <<<--- that's the look on my face right now

Thanks Rob!

daytonreefRob
12/31/2007, 08:31 AM
[violation]

bkelley02
12/31/2007, 09:11 AM
Excellent!! I'm on the list!! :D

VaderWS6
01/01/2008, 01:51 PM
Awesome! Can't wait to hook up the 160! :) :smokin:

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 11:53 AM
Anyone else just get their shipping notification? Mine is on it's way! :D

luke33
01/03/2008, 11:58 AM
Nice! Can't wait to see some pics!

soulfigter
01/03/2008, 12:04 PM
Hoping I get a notification today. :)

MrSquid
01/03/2008, 03:37 PM
Mine shipped today. Thinking I'll have it Monday.

soulfigter
01/03/2008, 03:51 PM
I wonder if they got enough in to fill all the pre-orders.

cmersman
01/03/2008, 04:13 PM
The 200 is on the way they say......

cashman95
01/03/2008, 04:19 PM
Talked to Rob today, dont think that they are shipped yet...he said they are going to go out friday, or first of next week! Mine also says shipped...?

Rob said he should have pictures of the mesh modd and etc up by tonight...I guess on their website????

franklinbeens
01/03/2008, 04:32 PM
if the importer is having to modify the pumps before ship out,
the siccie pumps are not a special build for this skimmer?

cashman95
01/03/2008, 04:42 PM
uuummmmmm? I dont know, I am kinda unclear about that myself? I asked that question to Rob, and cant really remember/translate what he said??????? anyone else want to take a stab at this?

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 05:25 PM
Fedex status is telling me they have mine and it's in route for Saturday delivery.

Some are shipping. I ordered the 200.

cashman95
01/03/2008, 05:42 PM
Awesome, I want to know how well it works!!!!!

I must have misunderstood what Rob @ Marinesolutions said?

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 05:47 PM
I'll just need to find time to get this cleaned out and installed. :D

Should be interesting.

MrSquid
01/03/2008, 05:48 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11514494#post11514494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bkelley02
Fedex status is telling me they have mine and it's in route for Saturday delivery.

Some are shipping. I ordered the 200.

Sat delivery? Where does it say that on your Fed Ex tracking? Mine doesn't show a delivery date. But I did do 2-day, so hopefully mine will pop in on Sat too!

soulfigter
01/03/2008, 06:01 PM
My credit card was billed yesterday, but I haven't received a shipment notification, and on their page it still says my order stats is pre-order. :(

BLANKENSHIP76
01/03/2008, 06:05 PM
Same boat as you soulfigter, mine still says pre-order for the 200

cashman95
01/03/2008, 06:10 PM
Like I said earlier.......I talked to ROB at 4:00 EST and he said" WE are still modding/water testing the skimmers that we got in yesterday, they will go out Friday or Monday." Rob is modding them one by one and then water testing them one by one, as fast as he can? I think if he could get off the phone long enough to work (me calling and nagging) it might be Friday instead of Monday!!!!!!

MrSquid
01/03/2008, 06:37 PM
I wonder if they're modding>shipping by model or by order date and then getting each one out as soon as its ready...

My Fed Ex tracking page says it was picked up from them around 6pm. So I'm pretty sure that mine's on its way. ;)

cashman95
01/03/2008, 06:40 PM
I assume that they are modding and shipping by model seeing as everyone with a shipping confirmation ordered the 200-250

soulfigter
01/03/2008, 06:41 PM
I ordered a 250.

CyboRob
01/03/2008, 06:42 PM
Well they messed up the shipping on mine. Just checked with FedEx, Home Delivery Jan 9th !!!
I'd paid and was charged $61 shipping for Express Saver.

I just e-mailed and asked them to credit back the extra shipping.
Sheesh

jokerjp
01/03/2008, 07:00 PM
If I had to guess they are shipping the skimmers in the order the pre-oder was received. I ordered a 160 and it's scheduled to be delivered to me on the 5th. Can't wait to break it in and see what it can do.

cashman95
01/03/2008, 07:19 PM
Alright who is going to be first to tell me how well it works! I ordered mine last night, so I will probably be the last to get it...and cant wait!!!!!!

MrSquid
01/03/2008, 07:31 PM
My Fed Ex tracking info was just updated. Saturday delivery. oooooh yeah!

badazztealcobra
01/03/2008, 07:56 PM
I cant wait to get to work tomorrow and see what day it'll be delievered on.... WHY did I send it to my work email... :lol:

I cant wait for my MSX250. :D

daytonreefRob
01/03/2008, 07:56 PM
[violation]

CyboRob
01/03/2008, 08:04 PM
Thanks for the quick reply, apology, and credit back Rob.

I appreciate that.


Regards
Rob

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11515028#post11515028 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyboRob
Well they messed up the shipping on mine. Just checked with FedEx, Home Delivery Jan 9th !!!
I'd paid and was charged $61 shipping for Express Saver.

I just e-mailed and asked them to credit back the extra shipping.
Sheesh

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 08:13 PM
I received a notification from Fedex with the tracking information. I think because it's Fedex Home Delivery, it will make it to the house on Saturday. I don't recall paying for 2 day shipping so it might just be because I'm not that far away.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11514641#post11514641 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSquid
Sat delivery? Where does it say that on your Fed Ex tracking? Mine doesn't show a delivery date. But I did do 2-day, so hopefully mine will pop in on Sat too!

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 08:17 PM
Thanks Rob. Can't wait to give it a try.

Since all the sizes are in, will someone be updating the site with the footprints and any additional information you may have found out? :D

werdlone
01/03/2008, 08:19 PM
My order says "shipped"!!!! How did you guys get a Fed ex tracking number..I don't have one?? I have no idea when it will get here. Is it just the order # ?

soulfigter
01/03/2008, 08:19 PM
Thanks for working so hard to get these skimmers out to us. I'm anxious to get it, but glad to know that it will be working right when I do get it because of the testing you are putting it through.

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 08:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11515902#post11515902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by soulfigter
Thanks for working so hard to get these skimmers out to us. I'm anxious to get it, but glad to know that it will be working right when I do get it because of the testing you are putting it through.

I second that!! :D

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 08:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11515901#post11515901 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by werdlone
My order says "shipped"!!!! How did you guys get a Fed ex tracking number..I don't have one?? I have no idea when it will get here. Is it just the order # ?

I would imagine Fedex generates the email when they get the request or billing information. When I first got the notice, that's all it said, was that billing information had been received or something like that.

Rob said they were shipping in order and I ordered mine back on 12/14.

cashman95
01/03/2008, 08:44 PM
GOT MINE!!! ALREADY INSTALLED IT!!!!!!!! HERE IS THE LINK!!!!

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/p4/MSX200/pages.html


Seriously These are the pic's Rob took of the 200 in action!!!!

Thanks ROB!!!!

luke33
01/03/2008, 08:47 PM
Yep, they look pretty sick don't they!

JRaquatics
01/03/2008, 09:01 PM
Looks good. Are there any shots of the mesh mod?

cashman95
01/03/2008, 09:14 PM
No shots of the meshmod yet, but I ran across this for all you "hang on the backer's" suppose to work well!

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/p5/BHF300F---dual-recirc-hang-on-skimmer/pages.html

cashman95
01/03/2008, 09:14 PM
double post

saltydragon
01/03/2008, 09:20 PM
still waiting on the proper water level to run these badboys

bkelley02
01/03/2008, 09:23 PM
Did you notice the prices listed for the 200 now? $299-349. Wonder if that's modded and unmodded? :confused:

tangafish
01/03/2008, 09:24 PM
yeah something i need to know too. man that 200 in the pics looks big, it certainly looks like it can handle my load. Cant wait to see what everyone thinks once they get them up and running

MrSquid
01/03/2008, 09:26 PM
Jayson from SWC had posted on week that the operating depth is 8-10". I hope he's right - I built my sump off that info. ;)

daytonreefRob
01/03/2008, 09:33 PM
That was an error on the site. Had to do with multi-orders. It has been fixed. Thanks.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11516455#post11516455 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bkelley02
Did you notice the prices listed for the 200 now? $299-349. Wonder if that's modded and unmodded? :confused:

saltydragon
01/03/2008, 09:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11516488#post11516488 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSquid
Jayson from SWC had posted on week that the operating depth is 8-10". I hope he's right - I built my sump off that info. ;)


i hope hes right too....im looking to get the msx160....hope it will be the same as i dont have room to raise the skimmer....

VaderWS6
01/03/2008, 09:43 PM
I hope I get mine soon! I never received a confirmation, but Rob said he got the payment a couple weeks ago. Anyone get the 160 yet? Glad I ordered mine before the price went up. :)

tangafish
01/04/2008, 01:16 PM
hope you don't mind me asking in here but from what i have seen i need about 8 - 10" water depth to run the msx200 i want, my sump isn't deep enough, i have a 30 gallon oceanic sump that came with my setup, it only has 2 sections in it. what would you recommend that i do to increase depth to accomodate the new skimmer??

I am assuming i could take some acrylic and add it to the divider i currently have to make it taller but what would be safe to use to to attach it?

luke33
01/04/2008, 02:07 PM
IMO as long as the pump is not sucking air it has enough water depth.

badazztealcobra
01/04/2008, 03:13 PM
After looking at those pictures, it looks like it will be really productive.... I cant wait to see a 250 with 2 pumps on it....

Only thing I dont like is that it doesnt look like it sits flat because the weight of the pump..... You can see all the skimmate on the one side of the collection cup.... I really think they shouldve made a baseplate for them..... I hope the 250 doesn't lean that much, maybe the second pump will help level it out some....

http://marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/images/msx200/IMG_0046.JPG

luke33
01/04/2008, 03:17 PM
Dude, its on a rocky sand bed ; )

vanillagorila
01/04/2008, 03:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521379#post11521379 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badazztealcobra
Only thing I dont like is that it doesnt look like it sits flat because the weight of the pump..... You can see all the skimmate on the one side of the collection cup.... I really think they shouldve made a baseplate for them.....

:eek1:

hahnmeister
01/04/2008, 03:26 PM
Say hello to the skimmer that will put alot of other makes in the history books...

luke33
01/04/2008, 03:29 PM
Yep, ATI's are going byebye as long as price stays like it is.

mg426
01/04/2008, 03:39 PM
Anyone have the footprint of the 200 extreme handy ???

sjm817
01/04/2008, 03:43 PM
It great how the Chinese knock off everything like Tunze Streams, skimmers etc. I'm sure the cone skimmer wont be far behind. Hopefully, there will sill be companies left around innovating to get their designs ripped off.

luke33
01/04/2008, 03:47 PM
I hear ya SJM but lets be honest, not everyone has 500+ to drop into a skimmer. I'm to cheap to ever do that. And we also have to make sure these skimmers don't start changing with generations like they have known to do in the past.

MrSquid
01/04/2008, 03:48 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521585#post11521585 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mg426
Anyone have the footprint of the 200 extreme handy ???

It was posted a while back by Jayson from SWC. It's 11ishx13ish. (Jayson gave more exact numbers, but I don't remember what they are/were)

sjm817
01/04/2008, 03:55 PM
I get a little discouraged when people are all "happy" about innovators being put of of business when their designs are basically stolen. Who will be left to innovate?

cmersman
01/04/2008, 03:56 PM
Got my xtreme 200 this afternoon...fast shipping is for sure...5 minutes to put it together and drop it in the sump. The collection cup removes easily and it is already pulling out some nasty sump just cycling 200 pounds of rock for the new tank that arrives Monday...

luke33
01/04/2008, 03:58 PM
I don't think its that people are happy that companies like ATI are going to be hurt, I think its the fact that alot of people can now afford to make a purchase on a very nice skimmer at an affordable price. Its just the world we live in man

sjm817
01/04/2008, 04:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521781#post11521781 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Its just the world we live in man
I know. It doesn't make it right, and I dont have to like it. The company I work for has had IP stolen by the Chinese. Seems there is nothing that can be done about it.

bkelley02
01/04/2008, 04:06 PM
Can you confirm the footprint then? I think someone said it was 11.5 " X 13.5 "

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521757#post11521757 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cmersman
Got my xtreme 200 this afternoon...fast shipping is for sure...5 minutes to put it together and drop it in the sump. The collection cup removes easily and it is already pulling out some nasty sump just cycling 200 pounds of rock for the new tank that arrives Monday...

vanillagorila
01/04/2008, 04:06 PM
anything can be copied once the patent runs out.

soulfigter
01/04/2008, 04:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521849#post11521849 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vanillagorila
anything can be copied once the patent runs out.

The problem is that the Chinese aren't waiting for the patent to run out, and no national government seems to enough to do anything about it.

cmersman
01/04/2008, 04:13 PM
the footprint is 11.5 by 13.5...so far so good its pullin good stuff, the chamber is full of bubbles...should work well on my 225.

scotmc
01/04/2008, 04:21 PM
It has nothing to do with patents running out. Until the USA and europe decide to do something about Patent infringement inforcement again countries lke China, India. Norh Korea, ect. This will continue in the market place for some time. I really don't have a problem with these skimmers. You get what you pay for. If your into mods and selfhelp, they are great. Marine solutions had very limited information about these skimmers. People still ordered them. ( luke, I hope marine solutions is taking care of you for pimping out there company as much as you do). It seems like the same people are the chearleaders for this product. If they work, great. If they don't.. you get what you paid for.

I actually hope someone clones a cone skimmer. Well over 1k is way too much.

hahnmeister
01/04/2008, 04:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521632#post11521632 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
It great how the Chinese knock off everything like Tunze Streams, skimmers etc. I'm sure the cone skimmer wont be far behind. Hopefully, there will sill be companies left around innovating to get their designs ripped off.


The KZ revolutions come from Taiwan, cant knock off something that comes from there in the first place!!!

Innovation is a key part of why US and EU mfg's have always kept ahead of the curve with cheap labor. Many asian 'knock-off' companies dont know the first thing about innovation... thats why they just copy everything.

So the the rest of the world has to innovate faster than they can copy... with such a small and slow market like this though... who knows if thats even possible. The ability of smaller mfg's to make fast changes/improvements... and to fill custom design requests is what will keep companies like ATB and ORCA ahead of the curve.

If the dollar keeps dropping though, importing from China may not even make sense... and then buying US made will make more sense again. As China becomes more of a free-market, and standards of living increase (although the communist system does cast some doubt), things from China will no longer be so cheap. Globalization will come full circle at some point and everything evens out in the end.

As far as patents go... there is nothing patented about these skimmers. There were rumors about ATI's threadwheel being patented, but that wasnt true (since they arent even the first anyways). The bubble plate, well, lets just say its Klaus's biggest regret that he never patented it way back when he had the chance. But patenting some of these things, with such a small volume market, only serves to drive the cost up quickly, and just having a patent doesnt mean thats it. You have to take someone to court to actually enforce it, and even at that, you may or may not win. Patents that are very simple, like the whole 'cone body' would most likely be lost all together if it went to court. Expert testimony would result in the finding that cone shape body skimmers have been around long before KZ came up with it. And which do you think looks better in that situation? To have a patent that you can at least threaten people with, or to lose it all together?

I doubt there will be any technology with skimming that will be patentable any time soon, if ever. I wouldnt even consider my 'bubble sphere' something to patent, as innovative as it might be... its just not worth it. Hooking up a peltier system to a skimmer to give the body a static charge might be something rather radical though... if its proven to work. According to some like Klaus, this is important.

badazztealcobra
01/04/2008, 05:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521420#post11521420 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Dude, its on a rocky sand bed ; )

DOH, Good call Luke. :lol:

dedfish
01/04/2008, 05:34 PM
As far as knock off products coming along and putting innovators out of business....Do you actually think skimmers are worth $800+ dollars?? Don't you understand that these innovators are raking us over the coals to get every dollar they can while their latest innovation or fad is hot. I'm all for paying for a quality product but geez these are relatively simple to produce and the price they sell them for versus the cost of materials is outrageous.

sjm817
01/04/2008, 05:39 PM
Putting a product to market is more than simple manufacturing costs. There are also R&D costs...unless you dont need to do any R&D. Thats like complaining about the cost of a software program or movie because it costs nothing to make a CD/DVD.

USC-fan
01/04/2008, 05:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11521741#post11521741 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
I get a little discouraged when people are all "happy" about innovators being put of of business when their designs are basically stolen. Who will be left to innovate? Well when these "innovators" charge an arm and leg for a simple skimmer, it hard to feel sorry for them.

dbmtrman
01/04/2008, 05:46 PM
You still have to take into account the money it takes to develop and design the product. Research and Development aren't cheap. They try and make that money, but the high costs, knowing that it is just a matter of time before someone copies it, and stops their sales.

dbmtrman
01/04/2008, 05:51 PM
Once I see how the 160 works, I'm going to order one as well.

dedfish
01/04/2008, 05:52 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11522478#post11522478 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Putting a product to market is more than simple manufacturing costs. There are also R&D costs...unless you dont need to do any R&D. Thats like complaining about the cost of a software program or movie because it costs nothing to make a CD/DVD.

Sure...do you really think the R&D costs a lot? You do understand that the people on forums like these that are modding their skimmers are probably doing at least 50% of that R%D?

And I suppose you think a music CD is worth $15-$20?

glassbox-design
01/04/2008, 06:28 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11522579#post11522579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dedfish
Sure...do you really think the R&D costs a lot? You do understand that the people on forums like these that are modding their skimmers are probably doing at least 50% of that R%D?

And I suppose you think a music CD is worth $15-$20?

and i suppose you think a monet painting is worth how much? the value of art is up to that of the viewer/buyer. many cd's are worth $20+

you must not be familiar with machining, tooling, distribution and customer support costs... skimmers arent cheap.

try and build yourself a deltec or BK, and see how much time it takes and how much $$ it will cost in materials.

bkelley02
01/04/2008, 06:43 PM
All valid points and all but....

let's get back on topic.

cmersman.... Think you might be able to post some pics of the skimmer in action? I know they posted the ones on Marine solutions site, but how about some in a reefers tank too!

saltydragon
01/04/2008, 06:49 PM
i agree with material costs is high....acrylic tubing aint cheap at all.....and some of the high end manufacturers use expensive machinery to cut thier pieces....which will add to the cost...

its all very purdy and works well....but i cant afford it so ill just stick with the cheaper materials and diy it to work for me.


but yea...pics please!

mcliffy2
01/04/2008, 07:31 PM
But patenting some of these things, with such a small volume market, only serves to drive the cost up quickly, and just having a patent doesnt mean thats it. You have to take someone to court to actually enforce it, and even at that, you may or may not win. Patents that are very simple, like the whole 'cone body' would most likely be lost all together if it went to court. Expert testimony would result in the finding that cone shape body skimmers have been around long before KZ came up with it. And which do you think looks better in that situation? To have a patent that you can at least threaten people with, or to lose it all together?

As a patent attorney, I'm very curious what your basis for this is. Juries and courts alike are far from predictable....I cant give out legal advice, but your logic is all over the place, you are confusing obviousness and anticipation. The fact everyone else copies it after you do it, is in fact evidence, its not obvious. There are tons of patents on things that seem "simple" after the fact.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/04/2008, 08:27 PM
My 200 is still showing preorder on the site, anyone else getting this on their skimmer or has everyone elses been shipped???

Anyway, I have and ATi 200 on my display tank, the new octopus extreme 150 and I ordered the msx200, I think it is great to have other options at affordable prices.

We'll see how they perform in comparison

BLANKENSHIP76
01/04/2008, 08:29 PM
What I think is funny is that the ATi was considered a low cost alternative for it performance in comparison to its price before all the price hikes.

Oh how the tables turn so fast.

MrSquid
01/04/2008, 08:32 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11523661#post11523661 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
My 200 is still showing preorder on the site, anyone else getting this on their skimmer or has everyone elses been shipped???

When did you place your order? Rob said that they were shipping according to when orders were placed.

daytonreefRob
01/04/2008, 08:35 PM
[violation]

luke33
01/04/2008, 08:40 PM
Yea, lets please take this patent crap offline as i've heard it one to many times.

Lets see some pics!

luke33
01/04/2008, 08:41 PM
But what i really want to see is the pic of an air meter attached to the sicce!

daytonreefRob
01/04/2008, 08:46 PM
[violation]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11523772#post11523772 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
But what i really want to see is the pic of an air meter attached to the sicce!

mcliffy2
01/04/2008, 09:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11523763#post11523763 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Yea, lets please take this patent crap offline as i've heard it one to many times.

Lets see some pics!

hey now, patents are paying for my reef, they arent all bad :)

cashman95
01/04/2008, 09:57 PM
To be honest.....I cant see to much similarity between the ATI Bubble Master and the Xtreme skimmer except for the pump. I mean someone came up with the car concept a long time ago, and see where we are now?!?!?!?!? Thats just life, and without people"copying" ideas, you wouldnt get much improvement on the "original".(usually from the "original" maker improving on their own idea to stay one step ahead of the "copier". Besides having "copiers" is what keeps the price in check! Imagine the price a company could charge by having the one and only skimmer due to some "bubble" patent. It would be so outragious that NO-ONE could afford it!

Its up to a company to create a GREAT marketing scheme in order to sell their product! Why drive a Lexus when you can have a Ford for a lot less money.....because they sell themselves(if you have the money).....I know Iknow...I am done now!

hahnmeister
01/04/2008, 10:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11522579#post11522579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dedfish
Sure...do you really think the R&D costs a lot? You do understand that the people on forums like these that are modding their skimmers are probably doing at least 50% of that R%D?

And I suppose you think a music CD is worth $15-$20?

No crap. I heard Dave at CoralVue is coming out with a Laguna based skimmer pump as well now... Gee, I wonder where that idea came from.

There are examples of products developed right on these forums that companies have turned around and made... sometimes with the consent/approval/knowledge of the designer... sometimes without.

I think its pretty smart for them to develop products with the input and help of the consumers though. I mean, how many of you out there have said 'I know I could do that better', or 'if only they would have made that part just a little different'... ?? Rewarding those who contribute is also a good idea. Sure, as a company, you can take the idea, as its not patentable once its posted here or sent to the company... but rewarding those that help encourages future developments. If a company takes an idea of someones, asks them to help/asks if they mind at least... maybe even rewards the person for their contribution, or at least gives credit, they are most likely to get that person's next suggestion or idea.

Its still a low volume/high margin market. The reef trade is a fraction of the aquarium trade at best, as much as it has grown in recent years. This means companies MUST charge a high margin, or they may not profit at all.

bkelley02
01/05/2008, 12:35 PM
Mine showed up this morning, and as long as someone doesn't beat me to it, I'll post a pic of an Air Meter hooked up to it when I get it running. :D Hopefully later tonight.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11523772#post11523772 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
But what i really want to see is the pic of an air meter attached to the sicce!

MGB
01/05/2008, 02:18 PM
I find it interesting that people are always obsessed with the next great thing, in this case a skimmer. Lets be honest, I'm sure this skimmer will work just fine, just like many other skimmers on the market, and just like many other skimmers it will have it's pros and cons. At the end of the day you bought a "knock off" skimmer that saved you $150-$200. For that saving you got a little less quality and design, which to many people is just fine. Just remember in the long run you get what you pay for, wether it's a skimmer or a car. The one thing I've learned is that if your serious about reef tanks and the equipment needed to successfully run one, and your getting excited about saving $200 on a skimmer your either in the wrong hobby or your in for a serious shock down the line! If you take a look at the majority of successful reefs on RC, they involve a serious financial commitment as well as great husbandry, dedication and obsession. I'm not saying you can't have a successful reef without all the bells and whistles, but if you can't afford to spend $200 on better quality products, maybe your in the wrong hobby.

luke33
01/05/2008, 02:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11527828#post11527828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MGB
I find it interesting that people are always obsessed with the next great thing, in this case a skimmer. Lets be honest, I'm sure this skimmer will work just fine, just like many other skimmers on the market, and just like many other skimmers it will have it's pros and cons. At the end of the day you bought a "knock off" skimmer that saved you $150-$200. For that saving you got a little less quality and design, which to many people is just fine. Just remember in the long run you get what you pay for, wether it's a skimmer or a car. The one thing I've learned is that if your serious about reef tanks and the equipment needed to successfully run one, and your getting excited about saving $200 on a skimmer your either in the wrong hobby or your in for a serious shock down the line! If you take a look at the majority of successful reefs on RC, they involve a serious financial commitment as well as great husbandry, dedication and obsession. I'm not saying you can't have a successful reef without all the bells and whistles, but if you can't afford to spend $200 on better quality products, maybe your in the wrong hobby.


Maybe you should look at the MSX design as its superior to the ATI BM imo......It is of good quality and it does have all the bells and whistles so i'm not sure what your point is. The pump IS the same as well. :confused: You definately don't have to buy the best quality products to be successful in this hobby. I guess some people like to get the fancy things to feel like they are more successful. I'll never spend the big money on any pump, skimmer, wavemaker, powerhead, i run a thrifty tank with no bells and whistles, but all parameters are perfect, my fish and corals are happy. You can surely think what you like but by no means do you need to spend money on all these luxury items. It is alot like cars, you can buy a fancy Jag which will work great or you can get a camry for 1/3 of the price, it will work great as well.

scotmc
01/05/2008, 02:48 PM
Lets face it.. It's pride of ownership. I am sure a lot of people would rather be seen in a camery over a Jaguar.,lol.
I hope marine solution is sending you free skimmer for all the hard cheerleading you do for them..

GO MSX!!!

BaNDiTo_RoX
01/05/2008, 02:49 PM
I'm new to this hobby and all I have to say is that this hobby it cater to people who have $1000+ burning a hole in there pocket but people like myself I try to shop for something that works just as good or better then those that hurt your pocket for what so you can say hey look I have a ATI,BM,BK or better, Maybe these company need to think about people like myself looking to get into the hobby but without selling my blood or my first born to buy one, To me this is all a hype as long as people continue buying these $1000+ Skimmers they will continue making them, And I'm glad to see someone else are making the same Skimmer at a cost that I can afford and anyone starting in this hobby.

Anyway thats my 2 cents so please let stay on topic and someone post a MSX250 in action.

Creetin
01/05/2008, 03:05 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11527828#post11527828 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MGB
I find it interesting that people are always obsessed with the next great thing, in this case a skimmer. Lets be honest, I'm sure this skimmer will work just fine, just like many other skimmers on the market, and just like many other skimmers it will have it's pros and cons. At the end of the day you bought a "knock off" skimmer that saved you $150-$200. For that saving you got a little less quality and design, which to many people is just fine. Just remember in the long run you get what you pay for, wether it's a skimmer or a car. The one thing I've learned is that if your serious about reef tanks and the equipment needed to successfully run one, and your getting excited about saving $200 on a skimmer your either in the wrong hobby or your in for a serious shock down the line! If you take a look at the majority of successful reefs on RC, they involve a serious financial commitment as well as great husbandry, dedication and obsession. I'm not saying you can't have a successful reef without all the bells and whistles, but if you can't afford to spend $200 on better quality products, maybe your in the wrong hobby.

I agree with most of this.
Where this hurts the hobby is the peple designing the innovative skimmers lose out and these jokers make a quick buck and off to the next.

MGB
01/05/2008, 03:05 PM
There's apparently no reasoning with the guy who just found the latest and greatest skimmer. Luke33, you need to get a little more objective, settle down and test run your skimmer for a couple of months before you proclaim it's performance is better than the model it's design was 'stolen' from, which when you think about it, is quite ironic. I am presuming of course that you'll be test running it along side the BM 200, so we can believe you the next time you trash the competition in favor of the new kid on the block. Can't wait for the results, I hope there's still one on the shelf for me!

snorvich
01/05/2008, 03:23 PM
Well, it has been my experience that buying cheap often means re buying. As a consequence, I tend to go with the tried and true performers and brands. For me it tends to be cheaper in the long run. Note that I am not saying anything for or against a given skimmer or other piece of equipment. Just a generic observation.

Maximus
01/05/2008, 03:30 PM
Wow, I can't believe someone finally put on a nice connection between the Sicce pump and the skimmer body! Good job guys!

Maximus
01/05/2008, 03:36 PM
Btw, how does the cup come off?

daytonreefRob
01/05/2008, 05:30 PM
The skimmer cup pulls directly up from the skimmer body. Where the cup connects to the body, there is an o-ring where the collection cup seats. It takes about 3/4 of an inch to remove the collection cup. [violation]

Rob

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11528317#post11528317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maximus
Btw, how does the cup come off?

bkelley02
01/05/2008, 05:33 PM
Best way to describe it is there is a pressure ring in the top of the skimmer body that you push the cup neck into. Almost like the o-ring that holds the skimmer cup on Lifereef skimmers if you ever used one.
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11528317#post11528317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maximus
Btw, how does the cup come off?

MrSquid
01/05/2008, 06:54 PM
Does the angle of the feed piece for the venturi matter? What what's the black "doughnut" looking piece? Is that a flow restrictor for the pump?

MrSquid
01/05/2008, 08:45 PM
Here's a pic of my 200. It'll be a day (or 2) before it gets wet - and probably a day or 2 after that before it hits salt water. But here it is next to a soda can for scale.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff272/mysquiggy/IMG_1724.jpg

steve the plumb
01/05/2008, 08:47 PM
you can buy a skimmer for less but I do think you will get what you pay.Maybe the build quality isn't as solid,who knows.In all reality if the skimmer works well then you get a hell of a deal.The only thing is when you buy a knock off it does detour someone in North America from trying to build a skimmer and marketing it due to cost.Lets face it a skimmer is a piece of plastic or acrylic with a pump.You can build a decent skimmer out of plastic and use a decent pump to make it work right.There are many skimmers that are overpriced.I bought my custom skimmer for a great price and I am happy with it.I am also proud to say that its made in the U.S.A. North Americans are always looking for the next best cheap thing.I myself don't have tons of money but I do prefer to buy American products over china stuff.Its sometimes not always such a bargain.

saltydragon
01/05/2008, 08:55 PM
i think if these new skimmers came with the old octopus pumps then it wont be as hype......but its the fact that they are coming with a known pump that you get with the high end skimmers that makes it interesting....

vanillagorila
01/05/2008, 09:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11530497#post11530497 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydragon
i think if these new skimmers came with the old octopus pumps then it wont be as hype......but its the fact that they are coming with a known pump that you get with the high end skimmers that makes it interesting....

I agree 100%.

BaNDiTo_RoX
01/05/2008, 09:04 PM
Well I'm waiting on a unbais review of it, and if it's as good as those high end one's then I'll be getting the MSX250.

For those that got there's how's the build quality so far?

ThaNgBOm321
01/05/2008, 09:11 PM
mrsquid,

you planning to tinker w/ it already?? ( i see a dewalt drill on the table = b )

YzGYz

greenhut
01/05/2008, 09:12 PM
Can someone that has received their skimmer comment on overall build quality? Can you compare to other well know skimmers?

MrSquid
01/05/2008, 09:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11530634#post11530634 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ThaNgBOm321
mrsquid,

you planning to tinker w/ it already?? ( i see a dewalt drill on the table = b )

YzGYz

LOL! No - no tinkering here. I'm a DIY'er, but I'm not a modder. And actually that's a Rigid drill - but the black case sitting behind the skimmer is a monster DeWalt bit set. ;) (I'm still putting my tank together, so the drill's getting lots of use with mounting stuff in the stand - see my build thread in my sig for pics)

MrSquid
01/05/2008, 09:36 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11530643#post11530643 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenhut
Can someone that has received their skimmer comment on overall build quality? Can you compare to other well know skimmers?

The last skimmer I used was a 6' high custom built unit at the LFS I worked at 10 years ago. A lot has changed since then and I have nothing modern-day to compare it to. But the build quality (to me) seems pretty solid. I was a bit concerned with how tight the collection cup would be, but it is REALLY tight!

One very minor thing to me is that the air line (more like a really thin rubber tube - almost like a REALLY thick latex) for the venturi kinks really easily. It had a few extra inches and that made it kink all on it's own. I trimmed the length down to fit and now it's fine. But I'm going to be running ozone through mine so I'll probably end up replacing it with an ozone-safe line anyways.

For the money so far it LOOKS like it'll be a nice unit. I hope that's still the case once I get it dirty. ;)

dgill
01/05/2008, 09:50 PM
IMO this skimmer design is more comparable to BK internal skimmer vs. ATI. And I know it could be argued either way, but some consider ATI a cheap knock-off of BK. The MSX series happens to use the mesh-modded Sicce pumps like ATI, but keep in mind that Tunze uses the same pumps (although they use a needlewheel). The Sicce pump is nothing "proprietary". Just like Deltec, H&S, etc. all using Aquabee, Eheim, etc.

Having owned Euro-reef, Deltec, H&S, etc. I was convinced my next skimmer would be BK. The Red Dragon pumps are incredibly energy efficient (low wattage yet lots of power) and the craftsmanship is second to none.

That said, I decided to give this skimmer a try... how can I afford not to? Consider you could buy and trash 3 of these units for the price of a BK... although I do consider quality important.

Well, today I received my MXS250 and although I won't have it hooked up for a while (new tank on the way), I can tell you the build quality is beyond expectation for the price The construction is heavy and solid, the seams are remarkably straight and clean (especially where the tapered neck meets the body). This skimmer looks and feels great.

Only time will tell regarding performance but we know these pumps are capable of pulling 700-800 LPH of air at ~30 watts. The pumps do run hot but this is not as much of an issue with submerged, in-sump operation. If we get anything close to 1500 LPH of air at < 60 watts IMO this skimmer will be a clear winner in the VALUE and PRICE PERFORMANCE categories.

Also, I have personal experience and frustration like many with the cost of replacement pumps on high-end skimmers. For me a pump failure was usually an excuse to rationalize a skimmer upgrade vs. shelling out for a replacement pump at $500. Another important point: these Sicce pumps are readily available and I've seen the mesh modded versions for < $100 new.

cashman95
01/05/2008, 09:50 PM
It sounds like to me, that some people might be a bit mad that they could have actually paid too much for their skimmer!?!??!

How about instead of moanin and groanin, you guys with the DEEP pockets buy a MSX skimmer and put it up against your namebrand one then give us an opinion thats worth reading!

dgill
01/05/2008, 10:49 PM
Okay, here is a picture of my MSX250 recevied today:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250.jpg

BaNDiTo_RoX
01/05/2008, 11:04 PM
One thing I don't see on there website is the rating on these new skimmers, Without and with Bio Load.

By the way nice picture on the MSX250 now we need to see it in action.

DOTZ
01/05/2008, 11:12 PM
Whats soo good about this skimmer? Good price or new idea? What is the site were it was bought at?

USC-fan
01/05/2008, 11:19 PM
Why are some of you guys jumping on luke? He been a great poster on this forums of years and shouldn't have to put up with this stuff.

dgill
01/05/2008, 11:50 PM
Some of you asked about the neck of the skimmer and how the cup attaches... in this close-up you can see the silicone ring that is recessed inside the neck. The inside tube of the cup extends slightly (1/2") and fits down inside the black ring. Its snug and I expect the silicone ring will need to be kept clean and and lubricated to make it easy to get the cup off when needed. The cup does have a built in drain. Note the thickness of the black ring and the quality of the routing and finish work. Very good IMO.

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250-1.jpg

dgill
01/05/2008, 11:55 PM
One other nice feature, at least on the MSX250 (not sure about the smaller versions). The bubble plate is actually two pieces and I expect this helps prevent the plate from cracking if the thumb screw is overtightened. Nice touch but maybe ATI and others do this as well?

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250-2.jpg

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250-3.jpg

dgill
01/06/2008, 12:00 AM
One other note... the outlet pipe assembly is not glued so it can easily be swung 180 degrees or more allowing you to direct flow.

JRaquatics
01/06/2008, 12:08 AM
DGill you take some awsome shots. Are you using a photobox?

dgill
01/06/2008, 12:17 AM
JRaquatics - thanks! Believe it or not its just a white sheet tacked up on the wall and draped over a card table, but I have some really good photography lights with color temperature of 5500K and this helps.

hahnmeister
01/06/2008, 01:19 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11531846#post11531846 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgill
One other nice feature, at least on the MSX250 (not sure about the smaller versions). The bubble plate is actually two pieces and I expect this helps prevent the plate from cracking if the thumb screw is overtightened. Nice touch but maybe ATI and others do this as well?

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250-2.jpg

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250-3.jpg

I bet its so that you can open up/remove the bubble plate for cleaning w/o needing to have a flange on the skimmer to open it up enough. I tinkered with the idea with regards to external cone skimmers... because flanges are even more of a problem/larger than with normal skimmers then. So a bubble plate that could come apart into more parts seemed like the best way to be able to open up the skimmer/remove the plate for cleaning. The other option was a flexible bubble plate... some sort of rubber most likely, that would be removed.

Its a good idea though... this skimmer looks to be a well thought out design.

dgill
01/06/2008, 01:29 AM
hahnmeister - you're absolutely right and I didn't even think of that at first. It would be impossible to remove the plate if it were one solid piece. This eliminates the need to make the bottom removable like we see on ATB, BK, etc.

BTW on the bubble plate they even routed out the top of one piece and bottom of the other along the center line allowing them to "seat" nicely and prevent a gap.

Here is a picture of the BOTTOM of the bubble plate after being removed:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/MSX250-4.jpg

TK3
01/06/2008, 01:47 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11522478#post11522478 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Putting a product to market is more than simple manufacturing costs. There are also R&D costs...unless you dont need to do any R&D. Thats like complaining about the cost of a software program or movie because it costs nothing to make a CD/DVD.

But $800 for Office 2007 seems reasonable, right? People wouldn't pirate or rip off these products if the companies weren't beating consumers over the head. $1500 for acrylic with a pump or two? R&D - HA! Testing skimmers might be the cheapest R&D on Earth. They either work well, work OK, or not at all.

That being said, you DO have the option to buy something else.
Not everyone gets to drive a Ferrari.

bkelley02
01/06/2008, 08:40 AM
MrSquid, when you find a place to get the replacement tubing for the venturi, let me know. Mine keeps kinking too.

sjm817
01/06/2008, 09:41 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11532406#post11532406 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by TK3
But $800 for Office 2007 seems reasonable, right? People wouldn't pirate or rip off these products if the companies weren't beating consumers over the head. $1500 for acrylic with a pump or two? R&D - HA! Testing skimmers might be the cheapest R&D on Earth. They either work well, work OK, or not at all.

That being said, you DO have the option to buy something else.
Not everyone gets to drive a Ferrari.
My point was that there is more to the cost of bringing a product to market than the manufacturing costs. The reason for the SW analogy is I had a conversation with someone recently who was trying to justify pirating (stealing) software because "it only costs $0.50 to make a CD. Anything more than that is a ripoff". BTW, Office 2007 does not cost $800.

BaNDiTo_RoX
01/06/2008, 09:58 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11531478#post11531478 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BaNDiTo_RoX
One thing I don't see on there website is the rating on these new skimmers, Without and with Bio Load.

By the way nice picture on the MSX250 now we need to see it in action.

So does anyone have this info?

luke33
01/06/2008, 10:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11532991#post11532991 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bkelley02
MrSquid, when you find a place to get the replacement tubing for the venturi, let me know. Mine keeps kinking too.

Lowe's, menard's, hd, ace....etc

flipteg
01/06/2008, 10:47 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11533247#post11533247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
My point was that there is more to the cost of bringing a product to market than the manufacturing costs. The reason for the SW analogy is I had a conversation with someone recently who was trying to justify pirating (stealing) software because "it only costs $0.50 to make a CD. Anything more than that is a ripoff". BTW, Office 2007 does not cost $800.

i agree... no one is forcing anyone to buy anything... if you think the cost of a software or movie is unreasonable or you can't afford it, then don't buy it... just don't justify pirating because you think companies are "beating consumers over the head..."

daytonreefRob
01/06/2008, 12:00 PM
[i] <font size="1" color="#0000FF">Your post is in violation of the <a href="/agreement.php">terms and conditions of use</a> of this web site and has been edited. Further violations will result in revocation of your posting privileges.</font>
[/B]

Sorry guys, I will keep my distance. I did not intend to offend nor break the rules.

ThaNgBOm321
01/06/2008, 12:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11530754#post11530754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSquid
LOL! No - no tinkering here. I'm a DIY'er, but I'm not a modder. And actually that's a Rigid drill - but the black case sitting behind the skimmer is a monster DeWalt bit set. ;) (I'm still putting my tank together, so the drill's getting lots of use with mounting stuff in the stand - see my build thread in my sig for pics)

heh.. i actually dint see that orange/red ridged drill on the right.. i only was the black box.. lol.. and that looked like a dewalt drill box.. im gonna go look at your build now.. hope i can find it..

YzGyz

MGB
01/06/2008, 03:10 PM
The more you look at these skimmers, the more you wonder or question the design. There are quite a few significantly different aspects between these skimmers and the ATI BM.

They both use the same pump, but as far as the chamber design, it's completely different. The BM's introduce the air water mix at the bottom of the chamber, into a significantly larger space than the Xtreme skimmers mixing chamber. After going through the bubble plate the air water mix is channeled up the body of the skimmer, almost to the beginning of the neck, via an internal tube.

In the Xtreme's case after the air water mix clears the bubble plate it spreads out and fills the whole chamber. The exiting water in the BM flows down the outside of the inner tube and exits via the riser pipe arrangement. The exiting water on the extreme skimmer flows passed the internal injection chamber via some slotted openings and then exits the body again via a riser pipe arrangement.

At first glance both seam workable designs. We know the BM design works, many skimmers have been tested and have been running for some time now with good results. My only concern with the Xtreme skimmers design would be too much turbulance in the body of the skimmer from the powerful pump and excessive micro bubbles being intrduced to the sump, an annoying problem. However, both these issues are pure conjecture on my part.

The question ATI and the designers of the Xtreme skimmer both had to deal with was how to harness the powerful air water mix in the body of the skimmer in order to reduce turbulance and minimize exiting micro bubbles and at the same time maximize the skimming potential. Those are design problems that if achieved, result in one skimmer being more efficient than the other. I'm guessing it takes a lot of testing and more than a little design ingenuity in order to achieve the best results.

If I was a betting man, Im guessing that ATI did a little more brain storming than the manufacturer in china, however I could be wrong, after all wasn't the US the first to put a man on the moon, ... Oh that's right they stole that technology from the Germans!

dgill
01/06/2008, 04:34 PM
MGB - agreed the design is not an exact copy of ATI and is much closer in design to the Bubble King Deluxe models. The BK 250 is 10" diameter and 25" tall and does not use an internal chamber. The MSX 250 is remarkably similar:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/dsgill/BK250i5-1.jpg

homebrewdude
01/06/2008, 04:36 PM
The bubble king parts are red....
That might make a difference!

GSMguy
01/06/2008, 05:19 PM
MGB these skimmers are designed much better than the ATI IMO

that riser pipe is the worst thing about the ATI that and the small bubble plate.

Maximus
01/06/2008, 06:02 PM
I have to agree with GSMguy. I had the BM250 before and while it was a good skimmer, the construction was really flimsy. These skimmers look nice. I would love to see a video of one on a tank.

tangafish
01/06/2008, 06:42 PM
i know what you mean maximus..video of these skimmers in action would be great..still trying to finalize my decision on my new skimmer but thinking will go with the msx200 for my tank. so keep the info coming

sjm817
01/06/2008, 06:45 PM
Whats wrong with the ATI riser pipe? The new ones dont even have one, just an exit "port" with a gate valve. I like the riser pipe design better. Its just a simple up and down riser with a horizontal T output. There has been a lot said about the design of the bubble plate. Bottom line is it works. The skimmers skim, and skim well. Construction is basic, but again, it works. I love the big lift off cup, but not the pump connections. The XTreme 250 looks very well built. I'd be happy to do a side by side comparison if someone wants to provide the skimmer. :D

Creetin
01/06/2008, 06:58 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11536245#post11536245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Maximus
I have to agree with GSMguy. I had the BM250 before and while it was a good skimmer, the construction was really flimsy. These skimmers look nice. I would love to see a video of one on a tank.

The Xtremes look to be made from the same thickness materials to me as the ATI's. IMO
The Xtremes could end up working very well too. I dont like the hard connection here as i see resonation being a result.IMO

Robert Patterso
01/06/2008, 10:39 PM
Anybody have a link on the Sicce pumps and their availablity?

soulfigter
01/06/2008, 11:02 PM
My 250 got a status update of "shipped" today! Hopefully I'll have it soon! :)

BLANKENSHIP76
01/08/2008, 02:30 PM
Fed Exsays my 200 is sitting on my front porch!!!!! I will let you know how it looks compared to my ATi 200./

bkelley02
01/08/2008, 02:50 PM
I don't have an attachment that fits the airline for this to get a good airflow reading but after 2 days, it's creating better foam then anything I used before. Granted, part of that might be do to my ignorance and laziness when it came to fine tuning some of my other skimmers, but so far I'm very happy. I'll try to load a picture later tonight.

One thing I did notice though is that the pumps definitely seem to need a break in period as well. Over the the first day, the bubbles size and consistency definitely improved.

luke33
01/08/2008, 02:52 PM
Blankenship do you have a air meter? And whats your address? lol

bkelley02
01/08/2008, 02:54 PM
Luke,

I have dwyer air meter but the air line is thinner then anything I've seen on a skimmer before. I'm trying to locate a larger adapter to get a reading on it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11551417#post11551417 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Blankenship do you have a air meter?

luke33
01/08/2008, 03:30 PM
I'd replace that airline as it looks to kink.

bkelley02
01/08/2008, 03:48 PM
I agree on the kinking but it seems to come out of it once it warms up and has been unrolled for a while. Any suggestions on where to get replacement tubing? I don't have any good stores for stuff like that around me.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/08/2008, 07:41 PM
Ok, I have my 200 up and running in the frag tank, it will go in the frag tanks sumo once its broken in.

Only question I have is what the little black circular plastic piece is for, it came in the little plastic bag with all the smaller pieces, tubing, etc..... its about an inch around with a hole in the middle????

I will get a pic and put it up as soon as I find my camera.

Anyway if anyone know, please fill me in. I will let it break in for a few days, and post some pics.


As far as the build goes it seems real nice, not quite as well built as the ATi's but still very sturdy.

The design is definately different, by no means is this exactly the same, they look a lot a like, but seems to a lot of operational differences.

So, all that stealing the design stuff is pretty far off.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/08/2008, 07:44 PM
I don't have an air meter!! I can probably borrow one from premium though.

luke33
01/08/2008, 07:48 PM
If i had to guess the black piece starts at 1" then tappers to 1/2" which goes inside the male thread on the volute cover. Thats what gives you the 50scfh. Yea the pump is the same as teh ati but the build is like the BK internal's...all the way down to the silencer.

BKelly, you can get the tubing at lowe's

MrSquid
01/08/2008, 07:56 PM
Does it matter which way the black piece goes in? Tapered edge in vs. tapered edge out?

luke33
01/08/2008, 08:15 PM
The small end goes in towards the impeller.....that is a must with the sicce.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/08/2008, 08:24 PM
Whew, you weren't kidding just fired it back up with that, and you can hear the difference.

bkelley02
01/09/2008, 06:39 AM
This is one piece of information that I wish was included in the instructions as I didn't know what it was for either. At first, I couldn't get the pump to run at all because of 2 things....... First, I had tightened the cover of the impeller all the way instead of just letting the o-ring hold it in place, and second, I didn't know what the 'Step Down' Piece was for. I called Marine Solutions and they told me what I was doing wrong. :(

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11554055#post11554055 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
The small end goes in towards the impeller.....that is a must with the sicce.

MrSquid
01/09/2008, 07:24 AM
Yeah - that cover is touchy. VERY touchy! I'm glad I asked you guys about the orientation of the restrictor. The sound difference is pretty amazing. (although mine still sounds like there's something loose or rattling a little bit)

bkelley02
01/09/2008, 07:33 AM
Mine kept falling out so I used teflon tape to hold it in place and it's been working great.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/09/2008, 09:00 AM
I used teflon tape on mine as well, I was also surprised to find that if you turn the motor portion of the pump it seems to restrict the flow??

I am going to put teflon that on the venturi as well to hold it firmly in place. I think I have it where I want, but if anyone else has any recommendations I would love to hear them.

bkelley02
01/09/2008, 09:17 AM
Do you find that the skimmer is very sensitive though ( i know it's new and still breaking in )? Seems if I tough the water, or feed the tank, the skimmer stops working for a good couple hours.

Edit: By stops working I mean stops producing any skimmate and the bubbles go down the bottome of the neck again.

luke33
01/09/2008, 09:20 AM
Thats normal for a skimmer though. My skimmers usually lose there foam head for around 30-60min after feeding, h20changes, dosing, etc. For a new skimmer thats very normal.

bkelley02
01/09/2008, 09:22 AM
I figured as much. Just been a while since I had a new one, and just seemed to take a bit longer then what I remembered.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/09/2008, 09:50 AM
I haven't produced any real foam yet, but hopefully when I get home it'll be cranking.

MrSquid
01/09/2008, 09:54 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11557507#post11557507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
I was also surprised to find that if you turn the motor portion of the pump it seems to restrict the flow??

I am going to put teflon that on the venturi as well to hold it firmly in place. I think I have it where I want, but if anyone else has any recommendations I would love to hear them.

What way did you find to work best for the motor? Pics?

What do you mean withthe venturi "have it where I want it" - do you mean how far it's pushed into the pump inlet? How far do you have yours? (trying to get mine set up right for when my rock gets here tomorrow)

BLANKENSHIP76
01/09/2008, 12:49 PM
I have my motor turned so its all the way open(meaning full flow), as far as the venturi goes, I have it pushed all the way down, until it stopped however it is still a little loose.

MrSquid
01/09/2008, 01:26 PM
I guess I'm still not clear as to how it's oriented when it's turned all the way open. Pics? I'm a visual person. ;)

bkelley02
01/09/2008, 05:16 PM
This is where I have mine as well. It produces the most bubble there. I had it so that the angled cut was directly under the middle of the meshwheel and it didn't produce as much bubbles.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11559059#post11559059 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
I have my motor turned so its all the way open(meaning full flow), as far as the venturi goes, I have it pushed all the way down, until it stopped however it is still a little loose.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/09/2008, 10:07 PM
I have been having trouble getting my volute cover to set right, I know you don't close it all the way, but I have to leave my open consederably to even get the pump to fire back up, and it is releasing microbubbles from around the covers rubber seal.

I have even cut the enkamat down, and I am still having trouble????

Any other recomendations?

luke33
01/09/2008, 10:18 PM
Yes, take the skimmer out, give it a good dry. Make sure the rubber caps on the impeller shaft are dry and in place super well. They have to be in place perfectly or the pump won't fire correctly. Another thing to do is to attach the mesh with fishing line to decrease the weight. I'm getting mine in tomorrow. So i'll try and do a blow by blow. I've messed with these pump's for a long time, there quite annoying at times, but well worth the trouble.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/09/2008, 11:12 PM
I have messed with it for 2 plus hours tonight and can't get it right or to quit leaking microbubbles from around the seal. Looking forward to see a detailed description of what needs to be done with these pumps.

mr. pluto
01/10/2008, 12:07 AM
how come people w/ ati's don't seem to be having as much trouble w/ the pumps.

badazztealcobra
01/10/2008, 12:16 AM
I'm thinking that alot of these issues are "first batch" kinda things.... They got them in, modded a bunch of the skimmers to start shipping them back out the same and next day because they we're already running late because of customs and the holidays. I'm guessing when they have more time to make the modifications that they will be ALOT more "plug and play"....

They probably could've spent more time working on them to perfect each one, but then there would've been 250 "I ordered my MSX200 but it's still not here.... blah, blah, blah" posts.

Possibly the reason the ATI's dont "seem" to have any problems with the pumps.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/10/2008, 01:48 PM
The ATi pumps are modded nicely, the venturi is very well done. With the Ati you can seal the sicce pump up so its kind of a no brainer as to if you have it right. These however are just the basic pumps and pieces are supplied, so its like go get'em tiger.

However, I am usually OK at this DIY stuff, and I can not get this pump to operate correctly. I mean I messed with it for hours last night and again this morning.

It seems the problem is the mesh mod, maybe there are too many layer of enkamat. But, I am barely pushing it past the rubber seal on the volute cover, and when it fires up I am not getting peak performance from it, and I am getting microbubbles released fromt he pump into the water. I am luck I have mine in a 10 in deep tank at eye level to work on, I can't imagine having to pull it in and out of a sump.

Anyway, so far I can not get the pump sealed correctly in order for the mesh wheel to operate at optimal efficiency.

If anyone can tell me how they have theirs working good, I would love to hear it.

younglcy
01/10/2008, 03:16 PM
I'm running mine with the volute cover locked and all the way closed. At first, the impeller was hanging up a little on the back of the pump housing, but I pushed the impeller assembly in (pretty firmly) until the impeller wasn't hanging up. After that, it's been starting and running fine for me (although I usually have to blow a little air down the tube to get it crankin').

sheepdawg
01/10/2008, 03:43 PM
I had restart issues with mine as well and ended up changing the zip ties to ones that are a bit smaller and leaving the volute cover unlocked. It's basically just pushed in so that it's sealed, if i pull on the volute it'll come out. I will be changing out the zips for fishing line in the near future as I believe since the housing was not routed properly, the zips are rubbing or getting caught on the housing.

tsouth
01/10/2008, 03:53 PM
What a pita. So whats the solution to fixing the unlocked pump?

bkelley02
01/10/2008, 03:54 PM
Does anyone know if or where we can buy just the Volute covers?

luke33
01/10/2008, 04:00 PM
The sicce's must be firmly in the pump, and the volute cover should glide on very easy. If you have to put pressure on the volute when closing it, its not in there right. The rubber washer on the bottom is not in correctly, get it out put it on the impeller and then put it in.

BLANKENSHIP76
01/10/2008, 04:57 PM
how do you recommend getting the bottom rubber washer out, I am only getting the ceramic shaft when I pull on it and the washer in remaining in the pump.

Any advice?

jokerjp
01/10/2008, 08:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11569073#post11569073 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
how do you recommend getting the bottom rubber washer out, I am only getting the ceramic shaft when I pull on it and the washer in remaining in the pump.

Any advice?


If you really want to remove the rubber piece in the pump I've used a small straight blade screwdriver and a flash light in the past to pry it out during cleaning. I don't even bother to remove it anymore as it doesn't cause me any problems.

greenhut
01/10/2008, 09:12 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11569073#post11569073 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BLANKENSHIP76
how do you recommend getting the bottom rubber washer out, I am only getting the ceramic shaft when I pull on it and the washer in remaining in the pump.

Any advice?

Method above sounds good. While it may seem obvious, do not try and pry the washer out using the ceramic shaft - it will certainly snap.

tsouth
01/10/2008, 11:05 PM
I accidentally snapped my shaft in two but fortunately I fixed my pump so that its closed all the way and still works lol. How do i get it replaced or should I just let it go since it's working?

luke33
01/10/2008, 11:18 PM
Ok, i have a bit of a slide show of my 200. First off i didn't receive my taper that goes inside the volute, no worries as i'm sure i'll get one soon enough. I did manage to make my own real fast. For this pump to work it needs to be restricted, have air, perfectly fitted with the rubber endcaps, mesh cut nicely and light impellers. Anyhow, i cut down the mesh made my own venturi and here's what i have.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Extreme7.jpg

After i trimmed it down

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Extreme6.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Extreme5.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Extreme4.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/exteme1.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Extreme2.jpg

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Extreme3.jpg

Its at 32scfh very very steady and you can't even tell its on its so quiet. Very nice so far. The meshmod was a bit nasty but the venturi hole was very nice and tight. At first i hated the rubber hose but its actually alright and works well. HTH

Luke

dgill
01/10/2008, 11:32 PM
Luke33, that looks great so far! It seems the main issue is the rough mesh mod that was done to the impellers and poor instructions. Two questions:

1. The venturri inlet is not pushed in all the way and this seems to be important?

2. Your pump is mounted vertically vs. horizontally - do you think this improves performance and restart?

luke33
01/10/2008, 11:51 PM
Vertical or horizontal i don't think it matters. Its to early to tell about alot, as its only been in there for a couple hrs. I'll get it up to 50scfh here soon enough, I just don't have time right now, leavin town tomorrow mornin til sunday.

Luke

tsouth
01/11/2008, 01:36 AM
I have some good news and bad news.
Good: I finally have the pump spinning with the volute and pump notched and sealed plus it's starting to show some skimmate into the cup.
Bad: The shaft snapped while trying to adjust it. I put the two pieces back in and it works with the volute sealed and all. How do i replace the shaft and where? I can't find replacement parts anywhere and the place i did find them is a world supplier in new zealand! I read that sicce pumps run better without the shafts. Is this true?

One other question. What size tubing for the Cup?

dgill
01/11/2008, 01:48 AM
tsouth, I would check with Marine Solutions. Rob has replacement pumps listed and maybe he can spot you one?

Also, I've read the impeller is the same as on the Pentair Aquatics Quiet One 3000 so you might check that as well.

b16drag
01/11/2008, 05:26 AM
I'd be hesitant to run a pump without a shaft since that is the one piece that is truly keeping it centered... But I'm a skeptic and I know what happens when something is going 9k rpm and the crankshaft is not balanced. Things lock up and things go kaboom

Anyways, luke33 in one of your pic, is the air line somewhat pinched right at the venturi? Don't you think that is restricting the air going into the pump?

b16drag
01/11/2008, 05:28 AM
joker or anyone else with the MSX160, are you guys getting much microbubbles coming out of the outlet?

BLANKENSHIP76
01/11/2008, 07:47 AM
Luke keep us up to date, I have Rob sending me a new pump, something was just not a 100% right with the one I had. So, I will be following this to see what is working, so when I get my pump I can make the necessary adjustments.

By the way Marine Solutions customer service is second to none, if anyone was ever hesitant to buy from them don't be, Rob was fantastic to deal with.

tsouth
01/11/2008, 09:49 AM
Sounds awesome guys thanks for the info. I emailed marinesolutions last night and hopefully I'll have a response this evening. I contacted SWC also and was told to contact jayson/jaysen. I was wondering if I could take it to the hobby store and replace it with CF or S. Steel?

MrSquid
01/11/2008, 10:58 AM
Are you guys seeing a lot of microbubbles from your skimmers? I am... :( Or maybe I just have mine set wrong?

soulfigter
01/11/2008, 05:55 PM
I don't have any micro bubbles from mine, but I have had problems with the pumps. I had to loosen up the volute cover as much as I could, and I have to blow down the air tube to get them to start up. It is pretty annoying but hopefully I'll be able to figure out how to get them to start without cramming my head under the stand and trying to blow on the top of the silencer. The performance of my 250 seems pretty good though, especially for the price. I was looking at getting a BK Deluxe 200, so the price difference between these two is night and day. There are certainly some troubles with the skimmers right now, but it's the first batch, and I'm sure they'll get straightened out.

howman
01/11/2008, 08:00 PM
my 250 arrived. i ordered it last friday night and i have it...good turnaround by marinesolutions.

it was very well packed. marine solutions was nice they even added extra enkomat. i can tell they water tested as the pumps were in a bag that had a few drops...

nice quality acrylic. everything is great on the design of the skimmer.....except getting the pumps going....in fact, i broke 1 of the ceramic shafts while loosening the volute cover....the pumps kept on jamming up......
hopefully i can get a new ceramic shaft asap.



everyday brings a new adventure in this hobby.

hm

younglcy
01/11/2008, 10:32 PM
I just stick a piece of 3/16" aquarium tubing inside the tube in the silencer and blow down that to start the pump -- it's easier than trying to get my head in there :-)

tsouth
01/12/2008, 12:04 AM
Im getting micro bubbles even though my pump is fully sealed. Idk how to prevent this but they're all blowing back into my tank and it sucks! Probably because im running the 160 in a 10 gallon sump

badazztealcobra
01/12/2008, 12:52 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11580612#post11580612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
Im getting micro bubbles even though my pump is fully sealed. Idk how to prevent this but they're all blowing back into my tank and it sucks! Probably because im running the 160 in a 10 gallon sump

Do you have all the bubble baffles installed in the sump ??? Also, giving the skimmer some more time to break in should also result in less microbubbles... If you dont have baffles in the sump though you may not get rid of them completely....

tsouth
01/12/2008, 01:22 AM
Didn't want to have to deal with baffles and flow etc etc. If anything i'll stick a filter sock on the return pipe of the skimmer which would probably do it. I'll give it some more time first

MrSquid
01/12/2008, 08:04 AM
I've got baffles in mine. I placed a piece of filter foam in the first baffle to see if that helped. I may be getting more microbubbles from my lines coming from my tank though. They empty into the sump chamber so it's hard to tell what exactly is going on there.

Not a big deal since all I have right now is live rock, so I'll wait and see what happens.

saltydragon
01/12/2008, 08:28 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11580917#post11580917 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
Didn't want to have to deal with baffles and flow etc etc. If anything i'll stick a filter sock on the return pipe of the skimmer which would probably do it. I'll give it some more time first


do you have a ato in the sump?i would at least put 1 baffle in there to seperate the skimmer and return pump
water level fluctuations will effect the skimmers performance.

badazztealcobra
01/12/2008, 08:49 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11581618#post11581618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydragon
do you have a ato in the sump?i would at least put 1 baffle in there to seperate the skimmer and return pump
water level fluctuations will effect the skimmers performance.

+1.... That's the entire reason for having a sump IMO..... That way you can always have a set water level for anything that needs it.... I wouldnt blame microbubbles getting into your display on the skimmer if you dont even have baffles in there... Any skimmer I have ever used has always had some bubles get out.

somthingsfishy
01/12/2008, 12:20 PM
just got my 200 yesterday, i was having start up problems with the pump as well but have since got it going. I am trying the viniger bath right now to hopefully quicken the break in time and allow some time to plum the additional sump to fit the new skimmer! This is my first post!:mixed:

dastratt
01/12/2008, 03:22 PM
[welcome]

somthingsfishy

younglcy
01/12/2008, 07:34 PM
I ran my Xtreme 200 skimmer in a tub with 15 gal. of fresh salt water for 2 days and finally moved it into my sump today. It's running in 6" of water without the restrictor, but I added a 1" threaded coupling and a strainer to the intake to keep the snails that reside in my sump out of the pump. That seems to be about the perfect amount of restriction, and the pump is starting a lot easier as well. At 6" depth, I was getting a little splashing and noise from the output, so I jammed a 20" piece of flexible 1 1/2" pool hose into the outlet piece (the only thing I could find that seemed to fit), and that took care of the splash, noise and micro bubbles. It's only been running for 3 hours, but I couldn't be happier with the results and it's running virtually silent.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/77221Aquarium_272.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/77221Aquarium_276.jpg

badazztealcobra
01/12/2008, 07:56 PM
Just curious as to the water level you have it at.... I'm getting ready to build my sump and they say it should be in 8-10" of water, any reason why you only have it at 6" ???

younglcy
01/12/2008, 08:14 PM
Sorry, I was updating a different post and it added the pics to this one by mistake (I must have had two windows open). Forum won't let me delete it, so I send request to the moderator to delete it.

As for the skimmer, I'm running it in 6" inches mainly because that's how deep my other skimmer was set. The Xtreme seems to be doing fine at 6" other than the fact that the output tube was a little short (2-3" above the water). At 6" deep the motor assembly is about 2/3rd's in the water and 1/3rd out, and my guess is they "recommend" 8-10" so the is pump fully submerged. As long as it's running good, I'm not going to mess with it. If the pump gets hot (which I doubt being only 40 watts), I'll add a piece of spaflex to cut down vibration and get the pump lower in the sump.

badazztealcobra
01/12/2008, 10:26 PM
That was the biggest downfall of the sicce pumps though was that they get VERY hot when not water cooled... You cant use them as recirc pumps if theyre not submerged.... IMO, Id try to get them completely submerged....

soulfigter
01/12/2008, 11:18 PM
I didn't realize that my restrictors had fallen out in my sump and the skimmer seemed to be working well. Then when I put the restrictors in I couldn't even get the water level up to the top of the body, and eventually the pumps stopped.

nielsen2773
01/13/2008, 12:27 AM
I got my nw250 thursday what are the 2 black plastic things for they look like adapters or something.Anyway I have lots of awesome bubbles and going to try some of your ideas on fixing the rubbing of mesh mod on cover.

badazztealcobra
01/13/2008, 12:01 PM
I'm having problems getting my pumps to run on my MSX250.... If the volute cover is loosened it spins and runs okay. I took it back apart and some of the clearancing that is done to the pumps is just not very good. I know MS was in a hurry to get these out to us, so I'm thinking that the clearancing they did just isnt enough.

I took the mesh off the impellar and it ran fine even with the volute cover tightened all the way down. My guess from what I can tell is that the back of the impellar where the zip ties come through is contacting the pump body. If you look on the body they did some "clearancing" but it's not a great job. I'm waiting to see some pictures from someone with an ATI BM200 to see how their sicce is clearanced..... My guess is it's clearanced a little more to allow for the zip ties....

If thats the case, it's getting thrown into a CNC this week and clearanced really nicely. :D

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/badazztealcobra/psk2500pumpclearancing1.jpg

You can see where they tried to take down the corner, just not a great job..... Just in a hurry I'm assuming. Anyone else have one that spins fine even with the volute cover all the way on ??? If so, can you take a look and see how clearanced this area is ???

homebrewdude
01/13/2008, 12:09 PM
Mine looks the same as yours.. All chewed up.
I am thinking of sending it back. I do not have the CNC option.
I have not put mine in water yet, it might work fine.

When I looked in the box the pump was wet in the bag. It must have been tested.

badazztealcobra
01/13/2008, 12:19 PM
Too bad you're not a touch closer... I could have my buddy do them at the same time.

I'm waiting to hear back from MS, I dont want to void any warranty, so I might just be sending them back unless they give me the okay to clearance them some more...

I think it was just they were already behind in shipping so they got into a rush to get them out..... I have a few people with ATI's and Orca's that might be able to get me a picture of that part, so I should be able to duplicate it in my buddys CNC....

spongebobby
01/13/2008, 12:27 PM
OMG... That looks like ARSE.. SO glad I didn't order one of these first skimmers. Looks like alot of problems happening , more than what someone should have to deal with when purchasing a BRAND NEW skimmer.

How's the customer service been for you people with problems?

homebrewdude
01/13/2008, 01:09 PM
spongebobby - What are "all" the problems??

Existing products that have been out for years have worse problems.

badazztealcobra
01/13/2008, 01:16 PM
It's a minor clearancing issue.... Some peoples skimmer run fine, I bet mine would run fine too if I used fishing line or something thinner than a zip tie.... They just didn't have access to the maching tools needed to make this perfect... not a huge deal, and I'm sure it will be fixed right away.

Customer service has been flawless so far.... I've heard from MS through e-mails and also gotten PM's on here..... what more can you ask for.

I'll take some pictures of the clearancing once I can get over to my buddys tool and die shop and get this thing cleaned up. I dont even think we'll need to use a CNC, I think a bridgeport will be more than enough.

dgill
01/13/2008, 01:19 PM
The build quality on the skimmers is great, everyone agrees. The issue is with the rough dremel job and mesh mod on the Sicce pumps. Other skimmers use the same pump (ATI, Sicce, ORCA, etc.) so we know they can work when modified properly.

tsouth
01/13/2008, 08:48 PM
video
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v318/tommyt01/?action=view&current=DSCN2723.flv

Maximus
01/13/2008, 10:09 PM
Thanks for the video. The skimmate seems really dry. Do you plan on raising the water level?

tsouth
01/13/2008, 10:32 PM
The skimmer is sitting in 9-9 1/2 inches right now. The pipe is all the way open as I'm still letting it break in. I think I'll start going wetter in the next few days just to fine tune it.

JCTewks
01/13/2008, 11:05 PM
I was at MS this weekend and talked with Joe awhile...They mentioned that they were pursuing having the impeller seat on the pump body machined to allow the zipties more clearence on the backside of the impeller. They had one there wet testing that was reliefed for the ties and was only pulling 12 watts 8:

bkelley02
01/14/2008, 06:51 AM
Did he mention anything about letting the early buyers send theirs back in for this as well? That would be nice as while mine does run, I can't push the volute cover in very far without it stopping. It still pulses at time too.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11594412#post11594412 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
I was at MS this weekend and talked with Joe awhile...They mentioned that they were pursuing having the impeller seat on the pump body machined to allow the zipties more clearence on the backside of the impeller. They had one there wet testing that was reliefed for the ties and was only pulling 12 watts 8:

smatter
01/14/2008, 01:07 PM
So I need to modify the mod to make the pumps work? I have a lot of water and bubbles escaping from the volute cover but I can barely push it on before the pumps seize up. I am worried about snapping the shaft messing around with these so much, it's difficult to pull off the cover.

vanillagorila
01/14/2008, 01:23 PM
wow, anyone want to comment on the build quality of these skimmers now? it seems their worth every penny!!!

somthingsfishy
01/14/2008, 01:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11597616#post11597616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smatter
So I need to modify the mod to make the pumps work? I have a lot of water and bubbles escaping from the volute cover but I can barely push it on before the pumps seize up. I am worried about snapping the shaft messing around with these so much, it's difficult to pull off the cover.

I would if i were you, i had the same problem with mine. If i were to actually get the cover on how it shoulod be the pump was very hard to get started. I took the zip ties off and used fishing string to secure the mesh in place. I have pictures i will post tonight. i can now get the cover on tightly and the pump dont hesitate to start at all and runs quit a bit quieter and im sure much more efficient. I will post picts tonight of the modded modd :rolleyes:

I wouldnt run the pump until the cover can be set in place securly, it can and will cause dammage to the pump body where the zip ties rub on the housing. My wife actually found the problem, she smelled a burning smell and it was the plastic on plaxtic friction causing the two to melt.... Ive got picts of that as well that will be posted later tonight.

badazztealcobra
01/14/2008, 01:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11597703#post11597703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vanillagorila
wow, anyone want to comment on the build quality of these skimmers now? it seems their worth every penny!!!

The skimmers are built incredibly well.... The only issue with the skimmer is the pumps right now, which are the same pumps used by the higer end companies (ATI, Orca, etc.) Just the mods were not done very well to the pumps. So if you are trying to "bash" the skimmer with that comment, you're off base.

I'm sure alot of this could've been fixed before we got these first few skimmers, but then there would've been 150 posts about "Why have I still not gotten my skimmer".... I'm waiting to see pictures of a sicce off an Orca or ATI, but I'm guessing they just have the mesh modding down to a science... Once MS get's this part down, these skimmers are a great value.

So far MS's customer service has been GREAT and I'm sure they will handle this problem for all of us with the first skimmers....

somthingsfishy
01/14/2008, 01:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11597703#post11597703 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vanillagorila
wow, anyone want to comment on the build quality of these skimmers now? it seems their worth every penny!!!

i can inliten you,

mine is only two days out of the box and the build quality is quite impressive. One day run time in viniger water solution and 12 hours in the sump and i am puling skimmate already.

We are talking about a modded pump, anytime you do any modding you are going to have some tinkering to do to get it right, anybody that has a fish tank should know that. If the pump were left unmodded, the skimmer and its quality are "worth every penny"

IMO and FWIW i would be happy to spend the money on 4 of these units that it would cost to buy one BM and put them up against it anyday.

vanillagorila
01/14/2008, 01:49 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11597814#post11597814 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by somthingsfishy
i can inliten you,

mine is only two days out of the box and the build quality is quite impressive. One day run time in viniger water solution and 12 hours in the sump and i am puling skimmate already.

We are talking about a modded pump, anytime you do any modding you are going to have some tinkering to do to get it right, anybody that has a fish tank should know that. If the pump were left unmodded, the skimmer and its quality are "worth every penny"

IMO and FWIW i would be happy to spend the money on 4 of these units that it would cost to buy one BM and put them up against it anyday.
Hey I'd love it if you didn't have to fix it, people have been bashing the ATI BM's on here, I don't think you have to fix those.

somthingsfishy
01/14/2008, 01:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11589776#post11589776 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badazztealcobra
I'm having problems getting my pumps to run on my MSX250.... If the volute cover is loosened it spins and runs okay. I took it back apart and some of the clearancing that is done to the pumps is just not very good. I know MS was in a hurry to get these out to us, so I'm thinking that the clearancing they did just isnt enough.

I took the mesh off the impellar and it ran fine even with the volute cover tightened all the way down. My guess from what I can tell is that the back of the impellar where the zip ties come through is contacting the pump body. If you look on the body they did some "clearancing" but it's not a great job. I'm waiting to see some pictures from someone with an ATI BM200 to see how their sicce is clearanced..... My guess is it's clearanced a little more to allow for the zip ties....

If thats the case, it's getting thrown into a CNC this week and clearanced really nicely. :D

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/badazztealcobra/psk2500pumpclearancing1.jpg

You can see where they tried to take down the corner, just not a great job..... Just in a hurry I'm assuming. Anyone else have one that spins fine even with the volute cover all the way on ??? If so, can you take a look and see how clearanced this area is ???


Mine was starting to look like this as well. I dont think that MS altered the pump housing, i think it is from the zip ties rubbibg on the housing causing friction / melting. I did take mine appart beforer put in service to see how they were modded, there was no wear ring on the pump housing, but there is now after the wife smelled something burning. I took the pump apart again and it had a wear ring, like your picture does, just not as bad as yours.

somthingsfishy
01/14/2008, 02:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11597909#post11597909 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by vanillagorila
Hey I'd love it if you didn't have to fix it, people have been bashing the ATI BM's on here, I don't think you have to fix those.

IM not bashing BS they are very nice, i just never could justify spending the $ for one. I would like to not have to fix the mod either but the way i see it, you just paid extra for someone else to do it for you before you received your BM.

Nothing wrong with BM, id have one if my pockets were deeper!

smatter
01/14/2008, 02:30 PM
The problem for me is that I installed the skimmer on a client tank and it is inconvenient for me to keep going over there. I certainly cannot charge her $50/hr to repair her new skimmer that I recommended. My time is valuable so this is starting to cost me. I should know better than to recommend a new and untested product. I am confident I will get it working and I can see its potential, just not something I have time to deal with right now.

tsouth
01/14/2008, 03:31 PM
I just received my mod kit from protein-skimmer.com and all I can say is this thing is a CHAMP! I'll have another video up in a few but the bubbles with 3 layers of enkamat along with the larger intake is ridiculous. I can't even control the skimmer right now + the airflow going into the pump is so loud with the silencer on. I wish I had a meter!

BLANKENSHIP76
01/14/2008, 04:55 PM
tssouth---------Did the mod kit come with a new venturi or did you use the one marine solutions provided??

ddboy
01/14/2008, 05:28 PM
does anyone sell the mod impeller or know where to pick up a ATI impeller? I am not a DIY kind of guy. and I know the one that came with it not really working as well as most people expected it to.

tsouth
01/14/2008, 05:47 PM
Blanken the mod kit came with a piece that screwed onto the gray nozzle (venturi?) and a new restrictor along with mesh and zipties. To be honest i have no idea what the venturi is. There is no modding needed to the actual pump. All you do is put a dab of glue onto the new restrictor and stick it into the cylinder then screw the cylinder onto the old nozzle.

somthingsfishy
01/14/2008, 06:31 PM
Here is what i have discovered to be happening....

Here is the peal back on the zip tie from the friction of it spinning inside against the pump housing if the cover is on tight. Thats if you get the darn thing to start with the cover on tight.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/somthingsfishy/IMGP3943.jpg

If you look you can see a discoloration of actual plastic melt in a ring around where the zip ties rub, nice huh.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/somthingsfishy/IMGP3945.jpg

I have figured out how to fix this by using fishing string rather than zip ties.

Here is a picture if the impeller with the zip ties removed as well as the mesh. I drilled more holes evenly arund for weight dispursment purposes and more places to weve the fishing string thru.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/somthingsfishy/IMGP3949.jpg

I wove the fishing string thru and thru tieing it off in several different places just incase if the fishing string decided to give somewhere.
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/somthingsfishy/IMGP3951.jpg
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/somthingsfishy/IMGP3952.jpg

My pump now starts up right when plugged in, imagine that, no tapping or blowing required and the cap fits on all of the way nice and snug, i know impressive, almost like a new pump should act!
If i were to do this again i would add one more piece of mesh because there is plenty of room for it.

Hopefully this helps sombody!

Your welcome MS!:lol:

bkelley02
01/14/2008, 06:45 PM
Somethingsfishy,

How are the bubbles with your mod? I was planning on redoing mine as well ( I'm actually going to try with another impeller though ) but thought the Enkemat needed to be a bit looser then what your pictures show. Does it perform well with it compressed so much?

Thanks again for the pics. I'm sure they'll help when I try on mine.

Brian