How important is random flow?

[Craig Lambert]

I am in the process of swaping out my two remaining seio ph's for tunze nano streams on my 75G. I am thinking of going with two 6055's with a tunze controller, along with an existing 6045. The 6055's and controller are a pretty spendy combination. I know there are alternatives, but I'm sold on tunze as a brand and want to stick with them. My dilemma is whether to go ahead with this, or just add two more 6045's instead.

When it comes to random vs laminar flow, I wonder how beneficial random flow is to health of our corals. Sometimes we read things that have been repeated so often, that whether true or not they are taken as fact. Is that the case with "random flow"? Did any of you notice positive effects on your corals (color growth etc) after adding a controller, or another means of creating random flow?

[ricks]

Are we talking SPS??? If so, I don't think you can have enough flow. I'm not talking about pointing PH at them. So yes random, indirect flow...

Tunze will help you with this. when I set up my system I had a Hammerhead on 4 returns. also (4) 100 Iwaki's on sea swirls. And found that as the SPS grew the flow was reduced to dangerous levels. You can see it in growth color and base recession. I have now install (4) 6200 streams and just added (2) 6201 for increased flow. I feel that flow is as important if not more so than lighting.. the multicontroller cost 225.00?, more.. But is what the tunze are about, I think it is worth it..

Happy Reefing

[Jefe12234]

I'm curious about this as well. I have 4 powerheads in my 40 breeder that all point toward the center of the tank. There's good chaotic flow at the center, but along the bottom sides of the tank it's pretty laminar. I've noticed that the branches of several corals in these areas tend to grow in the direction of the current even though it's away from the light. I'm debating whether to add some sort of wavemaker or just change the positions of the powerheads for more points of colliding flow. I think the corals under laminar flow are still healthy, but their "windswept" growth form looks a bit unnatural.

[trueblackpercula]

How important is random flow?

Its a very good practice and you should consider it/

Michael

[mile sq. reefer]

As important as stable water and proper lighting.

[mixed_reefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11488675#post11488675 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mile sq. reefer
As important as stable water and proper lighting.

I agree 100% with this.



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11485469#post11485469 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jefe12234


along the bottom sides of the tank it's pretty laminar. I've noticed that the branches of several corals in these areas tend to grow in the direction of the current even though it's away from the light.



I have seen this on several occasions, its a direct result of constant laminar flow IMO.

[StrategicReef]

Random flow is good but you don't necessary need a controller for the effect.. sometimes crashing powerhead streams will create decent randomness to sustain aquacultured SPS. As to intensity of the flow I have found frags is very forgiving but as soon as the colony grows it needs strong flow to hit every spot of the coral.

If you can swing it I would get the streams instead of the nanostream series.. and more powerful as well.. I own a couple and I am not impressed with how they are constructed.. Yeah I know they are big but I have 2 MJ mod 1600 on one side of the tank but they are big as well.

[Craig Lambert]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I went with 2 6055's and a controller. I'll run them with a 6045 and my return pump. This will give me 45-55X turnover when the controller is ratcheting flow up and down.

StrategicReef, I asked Rodger on the Tunze forum about streams for my tank some time ago. He discouraged against placing them in a 75G w/dsb. He thought this setup would be better.

[CW from the OC]

Hi Craig,

It appears you want to get all the water moving in the same direction, as fast as possible,forming a gyre. The corals/rock and sump return wil add randomness. At least that is what I get out of this article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2007/1/aafeature

Cheers!

[StrategicReef]

StrategicReef, I asked Rodger on the Tunze forum about streams for my tank some time ago. He discouraged against placing them in a 75G w/dsb. He thought this setup would be better. [/B]

Is that right, what is the reason for that, will it be too strong and blow the sand around? I am interested to know because mine is arround 80G and I ordered the streams with 7095 controller, no sand though.. I suppose if you have a DSB already it displaced about 1/4 of the water already.

[Craig Lambert]

It is due to the dsb (4-6"). He said it would likely be blown around. You will be fine with no sand, and maybe even a ssb, especially since you have the controller. And you're right about a dsb shrinking the tank size. My 75 is the equivilant of a 60G BB. I guess you could even say that my flow is higher than 45-55X since those numbers come from dividing by 75.

[kev apsley]

extremely important

[Randy1]

having flow from different directions is good, wave makers aren;t really all that great. imo.

[matt the fiddler]

good article post.
I have used some techniques similiar to that in my rockwork in the past.... nice to see it laid out.

how do you guys feel a mass flow gyre compares to a wavebox?

[PITSTOP]

CW from the OC - thanks for the link; very good read. Based on the info in the article, I'm going to reposition my two Tunze 6100's - one in the front left corner a few inches off the bottom pointed at the far side of the tank; the other on the back bottom right corner pointed in the opposite direction. I will set my multicontroller to 10 minute intervals to produce the gyre. My rock-scape is a good setup for this kind of mass movement.

I also just ordered a Wavy Sea for the return line - this will be placed near the center (top of the back wall for surface flow.

I never had a sound approach to water movement other than 'this seems like a good spot for this PH'

[PITSTOP]

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/rosena1/Reef%20Photos/IMG_1153.jpg

[burks]

What do you guys think about the following diagram for my 80g (was 180g but it was toned down) frag tank? The flow will be over a frag rack. Under the rack there will be a couple smaller powerheads for the live rock/sand/etc.

Mainly SPS dominated.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/burks/flow.jpg

[2crazyreefers]

burks, that is exactly how I have my 75 sps set with 2 6045 and 1 6025

[burks]

Good to know that Crazy! I'm going to be using the Koralias for now since I can get them pretty cheap.

[StrategicReef]

I saw alot about this Gyre flow thing lately but does it just go around in a circle does it switch direction,
say you buy 2 tunze streams that moves around 3000 GPH one pointing each direction, that alternately turn ON every 30 minutes to create gyre flow in each direction... So only 1 pump is on at a time, is it really better than having both pump running simutaneously in a non-gyre setup?

[PITSTOP]

I repositioned my PH's today - gyre in full effect - so far I love the new flow pattern - lots of dead spots were instantly cured...notice the PH positioning...

2xTunze 6100
1xMaxi Mod
1x

[PITSTOP]

I repositioned my PH's today - gyre in full effect - so far I love the new flow pattern - lots of dead spots were instantly cured...notice the PH positioning...

2xTunze 6100
1xMaxi Mod
1x

[PITSTOP]

oops...1 x SEIO 1500


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/rosena1/Reef%20Photos/IMG_1192.jpg


http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/rosena1/Reef%20Photos/IMG_1196.jpg

[Craig Lambert]

I would think that the positions would cause a dead spot right around that beautiful green table acro in the center of your tank. No?

[StrategicReef]

OK so you make current spin around and around, this is very effective and you don't need as many powerheads to get high velocity flow, but what will happen to the SPS in long term..?

The article for the gyre is often posted but it was only written 1 year ago, how will the SPS do in the long term if the flow is only in one direction in the gyre? The article does show some other soft corals too so what will happen in a crowded SPS only tank?

[PITSTOP]

Nope - it is getting plenty of current - it sticks out nicely...

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f283/rosena1/Reef%20Photos/IMG_1190.jpg

[PITSTOP]

OK, I'm impressed!

This morning I'm noticing better coloration after 1 day of the gyre flow approach - several corals that collected bits of detritus are clean as whistles - very nice!

[CW from the OC]

Great to hear, congrats!

[gary faulkner]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11508624#post11508624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by StrategicReef
OK so you make current spin around and around, this is very effective and you don't need as many powerheads to get high velocity flow, but what will happen to the SPS in long term..?

The article for the gyre is often posted but it was only written 1 year ago, how will the SPS do in the long term if the flow is only in one direction in the gyre? The article does show some other soft corals too so what will happen in a crowded SPS only tank?

I'd like to know also.

And PITSTOP, how can you be convinced and have better color in only one day?

[smalltime]

What is the best for random flow? wave2k, tunze, ocean motion or other.

[ebayes11]

I was under the impression that the gyre flow should be reversed at some substantial interval. Yes, the flow would travel around and around for ~30 minutes (or whatever the interval) and then it would reverse. I wouldn't think that there would be much of an effect on the growth of the sps - you wouldn't have preferential growth directions because flow would be hitting both sides of the corals equally. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

[smatter]

I believe you are correct. I think the duration is more like hours before it switches directions though.

[ebayes11]

Is this something that can be accomplished with tunze or vortechs, or better done via closed loop?

[acrohead500ppm]

maybe if the closed loop is put on oceans motions, i how ever im a tunze fan.

[acrohead500ppm]

maybe if the closed loop is put on oceans motions, i how ever am a tunze fan.

[uhuru]

I am running a gyre type setup as well, but mine does not switch directions. The 3 powerheads are always on, the hydor on the left helps to "pull" the flow from the nanostreams then pushes it behind the rocks and back to the nanostreams. I have found this to work much better than just 1 powerhead blowing in 1 direction, than another blowing in the opposite direction alternately because you don't get as good of a circular motion going. Ideally I would have the same setup blowing in the opposite direction and alternate that, but that would be too many powerheads. Any suggestions for improvement would be appreciated! I realize that corals will end up growing in 1 direction here but I'm actually interested to see how that would look. I've seen a couple like that and I really like the effect.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSCN2574.jpg

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb171/icientyouth/DSCN2577.jpg

[acrohead500ppm]

sorry about the double post, nice setup. kinda of a sideways gyre, cool

[ReefingBuddha]

I ran a gyre for about a month on a SPS dominated 55g hexagon tank with two tunze 6101's pushing about 2,000gph in one direction and then reversing it. I did time increments starting at 5 minutes up to 6 hours. At first I was fairly happy with this but as corals grew it was not keeping up with dead spots. I now have one tunze at 30% and the other at 100% so the crash in the middle and I reverse this every 20 minutes. This creates a far more chaotic flow (don't like saying random as anyone who stares at their tank's flow can attest, nothing is random).

I have now supplement that with two modded maxijets 1200 which provided apposing linear floor top and bottom. The top one comes on for 1 minutes every 15 minutes and the bottom comes on for 10 minutes every hour using a aquatronica. This helps make the flow a little more chaotic.

Good luck... every tank has different needs. Keep tweaking and try to go as big as you can with the tunze's and you can always tune them down. Good luck!

[ReefingBuddha]

I can post pictures of how my corals are doing if anyone is interested but everything is extremely happy and health these days.

let me know!

[ebayes11]

Tom,

Do you think that the dead spots you saw could be attributed to shape of the tank? What I mean by that is that in a rectangular tank, the flow has (relatively) long periods of straight flow before it has to make a corner (more of a circular circuit), while in cube tanks, or hexagonal tanks, you have more of a whirlpool effect that acts a little like a merry-go-round in that the fastest flow is on the outside (where the corals aren't), while in the center of the tank where the rockwork I presume was, the linear velocity is greatly reduced, leading to dead spots in the corals.

[ReefingBuddha]

I agree that flow would be different in a different shaped tank and I think I mentioned that above.

You are right that the outside spins much faster then the inside but in my tank the overflow and return are in the dead middle with rocks almost to the top so water spins around and seems to build momentum using the outside higher flow to keep it moving faster. I have to say that the total volume of water was moving at the beginning but as corals multiplied to did slow down due to the drag. I actually believe that the shape should have helped moved water around the corals more efficiently as any water that bounced of the corals and was deflected outward would be picked up and moved along by the faster moving water on the outside. You have to remember that I was pushing over 3,000gph around a 55g hexagon. That a significant amount of flow in one direction in a small tank.