90 Gal Plumbing Thread

[kar93]

I will be setting up a 90gal tank soon and im not really good with plumbing so i was wondering what i should do, can i just have a PVC pipe going straight to the skimmer section in the sump and then a pipe going from the return pump section to the tank?

Here is what i thought i could do:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/169354tank_design-med.jpg

[Cuby2k]

Hmmm, not exactly sure what your concern is Kar, but if I understand it I'd say it looks fine.

[kar93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11494317#post11494317 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Cuby2k
Hmmm, not exactly sure what your concern is Kar, but if I understand it I'd say it looks fine.

My concern was if the straight forward piping to the sumo would be ok becuase i see on lots of tank they have tons of piping behind there tank.

[dc_909]

It is fine.

[kar93]

I notice that some people have little red switches, what are these for? will i need these?

[kar93]

Another thing was would a 15g sump be ok?

[poppin_fresh]

with such a small sump, you will want to keep the turnover to a minimum. If you buy a large return pump it will be way too much flow to maintain a 'fuge in the middle.

[kar93]

what size sump would you recommend?

[poppin_fresh]

With a 15 gallon sump I would go for around 150-200gph after headloss. With out knowing your plumbing I cannot make recommendation for a pump.

You can use this calculator to plug in some parameters and see what a certain pump may provide for flow.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

[chrismunn]

there should be room for somethnig around a standard 55g under the stand for a 90g, your tank is 48" right?
your plumbing scheme is fine. the little "red switches" people have on thier plumbing are ball valves. they are a good idea to have in certain locations, depending on your plumbing setup, and needs. you could probably get away with not having any valves on your system and that would be ok. what you will want to have tho is some unions. a union will allow you to remove a portion of pipe without having to dismantle a bunch of other stuff. most of the time when you see tons of plumbingunder someones tank, its because they split thier overflow drain into 2or more drains,so they can direct a certain amount of water to certain areas of ther sump at acontrolled rate. and thats where thoes ball valves really come into play.
poppin_fresh is right about your fuge space tho, to an extent. although it really depends on what you want to keep in your fuge. for instance, if you have a big ball of cheatomorphain your fuge, you do want to have alot of flow going through your fuge. why you ask? that cheato ball needs to stay rolling around in there, or "tumbling" if you will. if you dont achieve a high rate of flow over a ball of cheato its just going to kind stagnate in there, and will probably end up with nuisance growin on top of it. you dont want tha. the problem with having sucha high rate offlow is kepping your cheato ball from trying to pass thruogh your bubble trap. you can simply use a piece of egg crate for that.
but, if your using your fuge for the true definition of a "refugium" and you plan to keep some exotic sea horse, or a sexy shrimp or somethnig like that in there then yes, like poppin_fresh suggested, slow your flow... it all depends on the applcation tho. if you were to be depending soley on your return pump for the bulk of water movment in your system, then evrythnig goes right out the window, and your gonna want to put as much flow through your sump as possible. like i said it really all depends.

[kar93]

would it be better to drain it from thw back of the tank or the bottom?

[Phillybean]

Sorry Chris, I disagree that he won't need valves. Have a valve with every union, otherwise you'll have a flood when you take the union apart. Have a valve before every union so you can turn off the flow and take it apart that way.

[Phillybean]

Oh sorry one more thing...

Get a bigger sump. If you don't you'll regret it. By the time you factor in leaving space in the sump incase of a power outage, the space your skimmer will take, DSB in your fuge, your looking at 8 gallons of water. Find a used 29 or 33 gallon. I wouldn't go with a 55. I have a 48" long sump for my 75 and hate the fact that I dont have any more room under my stand.

[kar93]

Ok, Ill get a 29 sump instead of the 15, im still confused though what are unions?

[xraydoc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11494460#post11494460 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 07kar93
I notice that some people have little red switches, what are these for? will i need these?

You are probably seeing the american DJ powerstrip which many people use because each outlet can be turned on and off independently of the others.

You dont need it, but it is certainly convienient.

[kar93]

I din't mean a powerstrip i was talking about these:

http://www.rainbird.com/images/products/drip/control/Ball_valve_bg.jpg

[xraydoc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11497152#post11497152 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 07kar93
Ok, Ill get a 29 sump instead of the 15, im still confused though what are unions?

I would consider a 30 gallon sump (that is what I use) because it is a longer shorter tank, I think that it is easier to access within the confines of a tank stand. It is 36" long so you have 12" of space on one side of the sump.

Unions are PVC fittings that screw together and allow you to easily disassemble your plumbing. I use one just after my return pump outlet so that I can easily remove the pump for maintenance.

[xraydoc]

That is a ball valve.

[kar93]

Could i just have it like this, So if i wanted to take it apart then i could just stop the ball valve at the first pipe on the overflow so it wont flood. And one at the return pump.

Heres a bad design done in Paint

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/169354OVerlofw_valve-med.jpg

[xraydoc]

Sure, but I would suggest you have the ball valve in the stand as it is easier to access behind the tank, assuming you have a drilled tank. I ran into a problem plumbing mine when my 1.25" ball valve was to bulky to fit easily with the tall ER RS135 skimmer. Therefore I just omitted it as the residual overflow volume is easily handled by my sump.

As far as flood protection from reverse siphon through your return line, that can be handled on of two ways. You can drill a small hole in your return line just below the water line to break the siphon or you can use a check valve. I use a check valve as I feel safer having it in place. (You could certainly do both.) A check valve will cut down on flow so plan your return pump purhase not only for the vertical rise the pump has to overcome but also the number of elbows and narrowed points in the plumbing (unions, check valves etc...)

[kar93]

If you had any could you post some pics of check valves and the holes below the water line because like i say im not much of an expert when it comes to plumbing etc.

[xraydoc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11498130#post11498130 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 07kar93
If you had any could you post some pics of check valves and the holes below the water line because like i say im not much of an expert when it comes to plumbing etc.

Im on 24 hour call and wont be home till' tomorrow and I may be able to take sime pictures then. You can also look at melev's reef site, he has many pictures of plumbed sumps he has built and that was very helpful to me when I was putting my tank together.

Here is a diagram of my sump, modeled after melev's model F which I think will be very helpful to you.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/141012kc1-med.jpg

[xraydoc]

Forgot to add, check valves come in a number of varieties. You can just google them and you will see some pictures. Basically all it is is a PVC fitting that is spring loaded so that when flow enters the valve in the desired direction the spring is complressed and the valve opens, when flow reverses through the valve it immediately closes. There is no reverse siphon whatsoever in this case.

Some check valves are have a flap in them rather than the spring loaded type. (Works like the epiglottis, our own personal check valve)

The other think to consider is that if you are really uncomfortable using rigid PVC (priming and glueing) you can consider spa flex which is flexible PVC and IMO is easier to use. I like to the look and clean install of what I have done, and with the union I can lift the whole return pipe system out of the stand to clean if need be.

If you look at my diagram above, it only too about an hour to complete. Point being that it may seem inimidating but it isnt really difficult. keep in minf that when you finish you will want to to a test run with freshwater, preferrably in your garage or basement, to ensure there are no leaks.

[xraydoc]

Clearly I could benefit from proofreading.

[kar93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11498391#post11498391 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by xraydoc
Im on 24 hour call and wont be home till' tomorrow and I may be able to take sime pictures then. You can also look at melev's reef site, he has many pictures of plumbed sumps he has built and that was very helpful to me when I was putting my tank together.

Here is a diagram of my sump, modeled after melev's model F which I think will be very helpful to you.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/141012kc1-med.jpg


Did you need a bigger return pump to get water to the fuge and back to the tank?

[xraydoc]

yes, in order to supply flow to both you will need a bigger pump than you would if you were not dual supplying the fuge and main return line. I use an oceanrunner 3500 as my return pump, very quiet and affordable, but it is maybe slightly underpowered for my apllication I think. I would certainly consider it though.

http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=32

[kar93]

Ive looked at the models on melevs site and i think Model F would be the best. Ive just been looking around on the internet and ive found some unions with ball valves. would these be ok?

[kar93]

Could i use this to drain the water from the tank.

http://www.hafcovac.com/store/sc_images/products/403_large_image.jpg

[xraydoc]

yeah, that is what I am using. Just go to Lowes and they have all the fittings you need.

[kar93]

I dont know if theresa lowes in the UK but ill have a look on ebay

[kar93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11498523#post11498523 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 07kar93
Did you need a bigger return pump to get water to the fuge and back to the tank?

Insted of pumping water into the fuge could i just drain instead

[xraydoc]

Sure, flexible drain pipe is fine.

[xraydoc]

Most people think the best thing to do is drain water from the tank directly into the skimmer section. I personally would not drain to the fuge and I dont know anyone who does. (Not to say that it cant be done)

[new_world_disor]

my local maidonhead aquatics sell that stuff...

www.fishkeeper.co.uk not sure if theres one near u

[kar93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11499226#post11499226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by new_world_disor
my local maidonhead aquatics sell that stuff...

www.fishkeeper.co.uk not sure if theres one near u

Thanks for that. Theres one about 1 hour away.