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afernandez
01/03/2008, 12:36 AM
does any one use them(liquid phosephate removers)?? currently using phoseban and phoseguard and a crappy (coral life skimmer) looking to upgrade within the next few weeks to a deltec ap 600....but any ways looking for some thing for the moment to do the job. any one used phose-buster? anyone i should not/should use?? feed back please

p.s i also use a po4 reactor

Billybeau1
01/03/2008, 01:08 AM
If you have a PO4 reactor, I would use a GFO in it.

Since PO4 is constantly introduced in the aquarium, liquid removers can not keep up. Good GFO's can last 4 to 6 weeks generally.

Here is an article to chew on.

Iron Oxide Hydroxide (GFO) binders
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-11/rhf/index.htm

bertoni
01/03/2008, 12:07 PM
The liquid phosphate removers leave the phosphate in the tank as a precipitate, and sometimes kill animals. I wouldn't risk it, but they have been known to work.

nismo driver
01/03/2008, 12:42 PM
isnt this more or less the what dripping kalk in a skimmer can do?

i belive i read this from advanced aquarist or reefkeeping article on kalk / lime water, that if you drip the lime water in a skimmer it will precipitate the phosphates and the skimmer will remove that precipitate..

i am far from fully understanding all the jargon in some of these articles but i belive that was teh basic point of what was being said

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/03/2008, 01:07 PM
Yes, there is the thought that limewater may precipitate a bit of calcium phosphate, or phosphate incorporation into calcium carbonate, but the effect is fairly small. The liquid products (iron and lanthanum based, in most cases) precipitate a lot of phosphate.

I too would recommend GFO where it can be physically removed rather easily.

afernandez
01/03/2008, 01:14 PM
thanks guys.... i am not taking a chance.. not willing to kill to remove those levels ill stick to the gfo's

boxfishpooalot
01/04/2008, 05:03 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11513206#post11513206 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Yes, there is the thought that limewater may precipitate a bit of calcium phosphate, or phosphate incorporation into calcium carbonate, but the effect is fairly small. The liquid products (iron and lanthanum based, in most cases) precipitate a lot of phosphate.

I too would recommend GFO where it can be physically removed rather easily.

Hey Randy. What is a chemical name of the iron based liquid removers? I have tried lanthanum choride liquid Po4 remover and it killed off some of my inverts. I used the phosbuster pro, then later switched to PHOS FREE. Every time it was added my sea urchin(diadema) would be stuned. For example if it was on the glass it would drop to the bottom. My starfish(brittle star) would also come out from under its rock and hide elsewhere. Fish would also breath rapidly. This was from either carbseas brand or phosfree brand. But you are correct, they remove enormous amounts of Po4. I reduced an estimated concentration of 3ppm Po4 with very little of this stuff. Corraline finally started to grow :D

But yea. I want to try the iron based liquid remover. With the hopes that its safer than lanthanum based stuff.

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/04/2008, 05:11 AM
I'm not sure of any brand names off hand. Habib mentioned it to me once that there were some, IIRC.

boxfishpooalot
01/04/2008, 05:32 AM
Cool. I take it your not a fan of theese liquid based removers. True? I suspect you like to drop Renegal pills in your sump daily for efficient Po4 removal instead :D

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/04/2008, 06:23 AM
:lol:

Actually, I tried it, but it doesn't work there. Too much competition from sulfate, and too little phosphate to begin with. Renagel excels when the phosphate is on the order of 500 ppm (like in your GI tract). and binds little below 10 ppm, even without competition from sulfate.

No, I'm not generally a fan of soluble liquid phosphate removers, although I admit that I've not actually seen evidence of what happens to the phosphate that is bound that way. Just a generic concern that removing it from the system is better then letting some or all of it settle out in the tank.

boxfishpooalot
01/04/2008, 07:56 AM
Alright! Thats cool you tried it in your tank! I pick your product at work every day. It kind of drives me nuts since its so popular. I get a sore arm. But every time I do grab it, I think of you. :D small world eh?

I wonder since you developed Renegal for humans. Could somthing similar be developed for aquariums? Without competion to sulphate of course. Randy I know you got somthing brewing in the back of your mind for us reefers! Come to think of it an appropriate aquarium Po4 remover must be a challenge to create. Especially saltwater aquariums. Because of all the other ions that you have to work around. All what 12 of them?

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/04/2008, 08:01 AM
Well, I tried it in a bucket, not my tank. :D

I pick your product at work every day.

What do you do?

I wonder since you developed Renegal for humans. Could somthing similar be developed for aquariums? Without competion to sulphate of course.

I think it unlikely to be able to make something that is cost competitive with GFO. That's why I'm skeptical of the few organic polymer products that are currently marketed for that purpose.

boxfishpooalot
01/04/2008, 08:24 AM
Im a doctor! No just kiddin, I wish.

Oh I work for the leading supplier of drugs in Canada called Mckesson. We have everything,vitamins,drugs, narcotics,ect. We ship them out to retail places all over. So yea theres the big manufactures making it($$$$$)you guys inventing it($$$) me packing it up($) and the other guys buying it LOL.

Thats too bad about the cost ratio. Let us know when the DIY version comes out ok Randy. :D

I suppose you just wanted to test Po4 removal in saltwater rather than try and see if things live or not?

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/04/2008, 08:38 AM
I suppose you just wanted to test Po4 removal in saltwater rather than try and see if things live or not

Yes, but I'm certain it would not release anything notable. :)