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jokerjp
01/05/2008, 09:40 AM
I just got my SWC Xtreme 160!

Packaging of the skimmer was good all parts arrived w/o damage.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031691329416322"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xhtE-rII/AAAAAAAAAYc/bzRIJAcXDsE/s400/IMG_2471.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031704214318226"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xidE-rJI/AAAAAAAAAYk/0umPAQL7DEE/s400/IMG_2472.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031717099220130"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xjNE-rKI/AAAAAAAAAYs/a_ZNgmJJEIY/s400/IMG_2473.JPG" /></a>

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 09:48 AM
A few shots of the skimmer before assembly.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031734279089330"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xkNE-rLI/AAAAAAAAAY0/fO7jyBptQVo/s400/IMG_2474.JPG" /></a>

A little less mesh on the threadwheel than I was expecting. It's also not very even at all. Good thing I have extra mesh laying around to clean it up a bit after break in.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031760048893138"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xltE-rNI/AAAAAAAAAZE/lD8ZHEPosxw/s400/IMG_2481.JPG" /></a>

The venturi hole is larger than I expected and a little rougher than I had hoped. The venturi is loose and and be removed as needed. I may end up gluing it eventually, but for now it's just pushed in tight by hand.
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152034620497112338"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3-0MNE-rRI/AAAAAAAAAZ8/j32q5dHBZVw/s400/IMG_2483.JPG" /></a>

The intake contains a flow restricter that fits up against the venturi. It's the center piece pictured below.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031768638827746"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xmNE-rOI/AAAAAAAAAZM/iJAfHOwHXEk/s400/IMG_2485.JPG" /></a>

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 09:52 AM
The bubble action shot!

The one instant flaw I saw with the thickness of the included airline tubing. It is simply too thin walled to not kink constantly. It was discarded and replaced with some extra tubing I had laying around. See kink below:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031781523729650"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xm9E-rPI/AAAAAAAAAZU/kFQUeujMro8/s400/IMG_2487.JPG" /></a>

After a quick vinegar wipe down it was off to the break in tub. I dumped my last cup of skimmate into the tub so the skimmer has plenty of nasty stuff to work with.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031798703598850"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xn9E-rQI/AAAAAAAAAZc/wBVyDmjr_P0/s400/IMG_2489.JPG" /></a>

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 09:55 AM
As soon as the pump has run for 24 hours I'll post air readings and kill-a-watt numbers along with my initial impressions. It's too early to tell exactly how well this baby will skim, but I'm hopeful it will be a nice performer especially for the price.

BigBadBlenny
01/05/2008, 09:58 AM
cool gratzz. looks like a great skimmer.. whre did you buy it? is it made in winnipeg manatoba canada?

luke33
01/05/2008, 10:00 AM
What are the initial air readings?

nycsicktank
01/05/2008, 10:01 AM
thats great.
hows the noise level? footprint? man cant wait!!

tangafish
01/05/2008, 10:02 AM
thanks for the pics! So in comparison to other skimmers you have used how would you rate it? construction? materials I know you mentioned some flaws but it certainly looks like it is working good but time will tell

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 10:10 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526696#post11526696 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
What are the initial air readings?

The initial air readings are all over the place. The meter just bounces up and down, I believe this is due to either the uneven mesh wheel or part of the break in process. I'm hesitant to post any hard numbers until the pump has run at least 24 hours. Probably needs more like a week of breaking before I'd be comfortable that any numbers are accurate and sustainable.

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 10:11 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526686#post11526686 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BigBadBlenny
cool gratzz. looks like a great skimmer.. whre did you buy it? is it made in winnipeg manatoba canada?

The skimmer was purchased from Marine Solutions Inc. I honestly don't know where it was manufactured.

http://www.marinesolutionsinc.com/catalog/index.php

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 10:17 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526700#post11526700 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nycsicktank
thats great.
hows the noise level? footprint? man cant wait!!

Right now the pump is noisy. But I've used this exact same pump in the past and it's been silent. I have no reason to think noise will be a problem long term. The skimmer did come with a nice little silencer, but I won't be using that as my skimmer line is always run to outside air.

The footprint is

Height - 21 1/2" - I'd say 22" min to get the collection cup off
Width - 7"
Length- 9" - the base is square @ 7" x 7", but the standpipe take up another inch and a a half or so.

The skimmer is currently running in 8" of water. I tried in 9" first but that was a little deep to control the height of the water in the skimmer neck.

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 10:19 AM
A couple more action pics

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152040307033812274"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3-5XNE-rTI/AAAAAAAAAaM/17NYIy8Y-Gg/s400/IMG_2500.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152040319918714178"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3-5X9E-rUI/AAAAAAAAAaU/fwJfddgueU8/s400/IMG_2502.JPG" /></a>

saltydragon
01/05/2008, 10:29 AM
wow....looks good so far.....so the pump is diy modded before its shipped out......did you remeshed the wheel before start up or left it as-in for now?

tsouth
01/05/2008, 10:33 AM
Sooo this is a "mesh wheel" pump? Idk sounds iffy to me. How often am I going to have to replace the mesh? Is this the way to go or is a Needle wheel better? I hope mine gets here soon

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 10:38 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526712#post11526712 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tangafish
thanks for the pics! So in comparison to other skimmers you have used how would you rate it? construction? materials I know you mentioned some flaws but it certainly looks like it is working good but time will tell

I feel the construction is strong enough. I know some people get hung up on the thickness of the acrylic, but I never have. The welds and joints look strong and clean. The collection cup fits very nicely in the body of the skimmer, and the pump connection is snug.

The acrylic appears to be 3mm

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152047793161809250"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3_AK9E-rWI/AAAAAAAAAak/nfiyFcpWg7U/s400/IMG_2507.JPG" /></a>

As far as comparisons go it's WAAAYYY to early to compare it to other skimmers. I'd need at least a month of continuous use to be able to draw a comparison.

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 10:41 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526887#post11526887 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydragon
wow....looks good so far.....so the pump is diy modded before its shipped out......did you remeshed the wheel before start up or left it as-in for now?

It does appear that the mods are completed by Marine Solutions Inc before the product is shipped out. I did not alter the amount of mesh on the pump for now. I figure I should at least let the pump break in before I even think about modifying the "as shipped" configuration.

Creetin
01/05/2008, 10:45 AM
Looks like alot of bubbles are escaping.
My sicce's since day one had no variances in air so something must be up. Could be that mesh, Could be the airline needs to be restricted a bit. Try a airvalve on it

nycsicktank
01/05/2008, 11:02 AM
is this the mesh type you use for mesh mod?
http://www.seattlefabrics.com/Dive%20Mesh.jpg

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 11:27 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526964#post11526964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
Looks like alot of bubbles are escaping.
My sicce's since day one had no variances in air so something must be up. Could be that mesh, Could be the airline needs to be restricted a bit. Try a airvalve on it

I agree and I've had the same experience as you with previous Sicce pumps. I'm fairly certain that the problem is the uneven mesh shown in the pic above, I tried restricting the air intake in the past and found that when the mesh was right it wasn't necessary for me. I'm going to let it run for a few hours and swap in my "spare" impeller with 2 layers of mesh trimmed evenly and see what happens. When I've got that up and running I'll post new pics.

saltydragon
01/05/2008, 11:29 AM
it should be enkamat...

this guy on ebay sells small sheets of it...its enough to do a few skimmers..

http://cgi.ebay.com/Enkamat-P4-for-needlewheel-mods-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQitemZ320203232365QQihZ011QQcategoryZ46313QQcmdZViewItem

mg426
01/05/2008, 11:32 AM
Tagging along for this one.

OranguTang
01/05/2008, 11:42 AM
Hmm, I am not so sure I like the whole DIY mod thing...The quality of the skimmer looks great, but the mesh wheel and the DIY drilling for the venturi...IDK I want that on my skimmer.

Depends on how great this thing performs. Keep us updated.

b16drag
01/05/2008, 01:30 PM
joker thanks for being honest and posting up what you found. I'll be tagging along on this one since I NEED a good skimmer and was just about to go with the regular Octopus NW 150, but saw the "xtreme" and the INT-PS150 or something.

Please do keep us updated!

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 01:38 PM
OK so I decided to take air readings on the existing threadwheel. The meter was really bouncing around so I shot a quick video.

Since Picasa doesn't let me link vid's you'll have to click the link to see it.
LINK (http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152093551743380914)

LA-Lawman
01/05/2008, 01:40 PM
i think i would rebuild the threadwheel?

mr. pluto
01/05/2008, 01:44 PM
is the numbers on the left lpm?

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 01:47 PM
Comparison of the stock impeller on the top to the spare impeller I had on the bottom.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152082857274813826"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3_gD9E-rYI/AAAAAAAAAcA/7f2XQzTZp1A/s400/IMG_2512.JPG" /></a>

After installing my backup impeller here are the new air readings and neck pics

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152096571105390018"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3_siNE-rcI/AAAAAAAAAcg/1xzECMK4VX0/s400/IMG_2521.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152096579695324626"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/jokerjp/R3_sitE-rdI/AAAAAAAAAco/aPpU306RDvQ/s400/IMG_2523.JPG" /></a>

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 01:48 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11527986#post11527986 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr. pluto
is the numbers on the left lpm?

left is SCFH right is LPM

Creetin
01/05/2008, 01:54 PM
Yeah with mesh that poorly cut you guys should have some on hand.
20 scfh seems like a good amt of air for that skimmer.
Any restart issues?

mr. pluto
01/05/2008, 02:01 PM
ok, it's lower than i anticipated. the ati's is over 15lpm
air flow must be goverened by mesh diameter.

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 02:03 PM
I just went out and turned it on and off a dozen times including fully body drainage....restarted perfectly each time. I think the reason might be the flow restrictor included is a little smaller than what I have previous experience with on this pump.

mr. pluto
01/05/2008, 02:06 PM
that's actually a good thing. less equip. fiddling :)

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 02:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11528096#post11528096 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mr. pluto
ok, it's lower than i anticipated. the ati's is over 15lpm
air flow must be goverened by mesh diameter.

I can tell you that I don't personally get 15 LPM out of the pump on my ATI BM160. I get more like 22SCFH or 11 LPM. Others results might be different, but I don't think there will be a measurable air difference between this pump on an ATI body or this pump on the SWC body.

mr. pluto
01/05/2008, 02:09 PM
i have a 250, i thought the pumps are the same.

saltydragon
01/05/2008, 02:50 PM
hmm...looks like whoever gets one of these need to check the impeller...and most likely will need to redo the mesh......dont these pumps come with a meshwheel or needlewheel ...?im wonder if i can purchase a sicce pump impeller that was made for the BK or BM.......

b16drag
01/05/2008, 02:59 PM
That's exactly what I was wondering saltydragon. I really wish the pump just came with a needlewheel versus a modded wheel...

USC-fan
01/05/2008, 03:18 PM
Wow, i thought the number would be a lot higher....

saltydragon
01/05/2008, 03:27 PM
i been reading some threads on BM skimmers and looks like the sicce pumps do come mesh modded anyone can confirm this?

mg426
01/05/2008, 03:43 PM
I thought thatr the air flow would be higher too, I am getting around 11 LPM out of my Euro reef Sedra 500.

notenoughtanks
01/05/2008, 04:36 PM
Our lfs has a few of each in stock, I seen the 200 in action and wow! Way quiet compared to my normal nw200(one because the pump doesn't sit on the bottom of the sump, but also because its a more efficient pump,and two, no water splashing) lower heat production. Bubbles like i've never seen from another skimmer. And yes, the bubble plate is removable to clean underneath.

daytonreefRob
01/05/2008, 04:36 PM
Thanks for posting the pics.

[violation]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11528012#post11528012 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
Comparison of the stock impeller on the top to the spare impeller I had on the bottom.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152082857274813826"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3_gD9E-rYI/AAAAAAAAAcA/7f2XQzTZp1A/s400/IMG_2512.JPG" /></a>

After installing my backup impeller here are the new air readings and neck pics

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152096571105390018"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3_siNE-rcI/AAAAAAAAAcg/1xzECMK4VX0/s400/IMG_2521.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152096579695324626"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/jokerjp/R3_sitE-rdI/AAAAAAAAAco/aPpU306RDvQ/s400/IMG_2523.JPG" /></a>

luke33
01/05/2008, 05:01 PM
Three layers will work well and you have to have a restrictor in the male thread that is half an inch, then you will get your serious air. So its going to take a female fitting on the front of teh cover with pvc tapered down to 1/2" before the air injector. You do that and you'll get the sicce to perform well. If not your only going to get the 20-30scfh.

Here's the way to get 22-24lpm out of your sicce's. I would suggest purchasing it if your not diy savy but if you are it will take a few bux from your local hardware to make. HTH

http://www.protein-skimmer.com/shopping.asp?id=446996&itemid=10097&ct=0&shopperid=76149&merchantid=446996&shop=itemdetail.asp

badazztealcobra
01/05/2008, 05:09 PM
Hey Luke, thanks for that link.... You know offhand anyplace to get replacement impellars ??? I would like to buy one or two so when I need to replace the mesh, I can just swap in a new set into my MSX250 and then work on the other impellars without having the skimmer be down for any extended period of time...

jokerjp
01/05/2008, 05:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11529101#post11529101 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by daytonreefRob
Thanks for posting the pics.

We are working to perfect the meshmod, we are putting three layers of Enkamat on them. We have found that if the mesh is not trimmed closely, the pumps do not always restart. We actually water test each and every pump after they are modded before they get shipped.

Please feel free to provide constructive criticism, we want to make these the best we possibly can.

Rob,
Mesh wheel is an inexact science and i don't anticipate having a "perfect" product when dealing with that factor. I do feel that the mesh on my stock impeller was a little sloppy and uneven, and when the mesh isn' t balanced it leads to air surges and inconsistent performance IME. I have enkamat laying around (and a spare impeller) so this really isn't an issue for me, but for those less experienced with a mesh based impeller might be frustrated.

I'm still getting used to the "free floating" venturi and air restrictor. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet it's just too early to tell. I did have the restrictor float away upon pump shutdown once....am I doing something wrong here or is intended to just sit in the pump intake?

The only solid constructive criticism I can give at this early evaluation time is that the included air tubing should be replaced ASAP. It's just too thin walled and prone to kinking.

Appreciate you looking in on this thread and if you have any other comments let me know.

Fliger
01/05/2008, 05:21 PM
Thats a pretty neat design. For a 6" body it probably can't handle much more air. It would be cool to see them do the same thing with an 8" body and an Eheim with a standard NW, pulling ~900LPH.

luke33
01/05/2008, 05:28 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11529337#post11529337 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by badazztealcobra
Hey Luke, thanks for that link.... You know offhand anyplace to get replacement impellars ??? I would like to buy one or two so when I need to replace the mesh, I can just swap in a new set into my MSX250 and then work on the other impellars without having the skimmer be down for any extended period of time...

Just buy a q03000 impeller, its just blue instead of yellow, but there exactly the same. You'll have to shave down the three turbine blades and drill 6 holes, then add the mesh but the qo's are only around 13bux. Really i'd just buy the 14dollar kit and redo the meshmod. I know its kinda a pain to do, but the results will be 22-24lpm well worth the money.

badazztealcobra
01/05/2008, 05:31 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11529479#post11529479 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Just buy a q03000 impeller, its just blue instead of yellow, but there exactly the same. You'll have to shave down the three turbine blades and drill 6 holes, then add the mesh but the qo's are only around 13bux. Really i'd just buy the 14dollar kit and redo the meshmod. I know its kinda a pain to do, but the results will be 22-24lpm well worth the money.

I planned on redoing the meshmod if it's not right when I get my skimmer, I just like to have spares of stuff laying around just incase... I think everything I own breaks down atleast once... :lol:

luke33
01/05/2008, 05:33 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11529434#post11529434 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fliger
Thats a pretty neat design. For a 6" body it probably can't handle much more air. It would be cool to see them do the same thing with an 8" body and an Eheim with a standard NW, pulling ~900LPH.

Fligger, i wondered the same thing about could the 6.5" 160 really handle a meshwheel sicce? Even with a large neck, i dono but you can always throttle down air. The eheim's are nice and pull 900lph buuuut the sicce modded correctly will do 1300-1500 at 30ish watts. Not to comparable airwise but i do love the eheim's durability and they are very long lived pump's.

Fliger
01/05/2008, 05:47 PM
True, any pump I guess. I was just thinking 900LPH would be about right for an 8" body. APF600 is 5" and A150 is 6" so maybe this skimmer could handle more air with a bigger neck. I like the way the pump is underneath for those needing a really small footprint.

JCTewks
01/05/2008, 11:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526621#post11526621 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp


The intake contains a flow restricter that fits up against the venturi. It's the center piece pictured below.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031768638827746"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xmNE-rOI/AAAAAAAAAZM/iJAfHOwHXEk/s400/IMG_2485.JPG" /></a>

If the intake looks like this it is not right...the plastic piece the airline hooks to should not be extending into the 1/2" restircter...try flipping it over so that the flat end goes into the volute...your air readings WILL go up as you are further restricting the water flow with it the way it is in that picture..

badazztealcobra
01/05/2008, 11:51 PM
Just ordered 2 of those kits from protein-skimmer..... Thanks for the link Luke....

So far these skimmers look like they're going to do alright.... I cant wait to get mine on Monday. :D

luke33
01/05/2008, 11:58 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11526649#post11526649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
The bubble action shot!

The one instant flaw I saw with the thickness of the included airline tubing. It is simply too thin walled to not kink constantly. It was discarded and replaced with some extra tubing I had laying around. See kink below:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031781523729650"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xm9E-rPI/AAAAAAAAAZU/kFQUeujMro8/s400/IMG_2487.JPG" /></a>

After a quick vinegar wipe down it was off to the break in tub. I dumped my last cup of skimmate into the tub so the skimmer has plenty of nasty stuff to work with.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152031798703598850"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R3-xn9E-rQI/AAAAAAAAAZc/wBVyDmjr_P0/s400/IMG_2489.JPG" /></a>

In this pic the 1/2" restrictor was removed. Did you add it back in?

jokerjp
01/06/2008, 07:50 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11532226#post11532226 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
In this pic the 1/2" restrictor was removed. Did you add it back in?

Yes the restrictor was installed before the pump was resubmerged, it fell out when I pulled the skimmer out of the water to take a pic of the kinked tubing. I have had the restrictor float out of the pump intake a couple of times after shutdown....noting a small dab of silicone won't solve.

luke33
01/06/2008, 09:54 AM
Have you remeasure the air pull? The 200's sicce was pulling 50scfh according to MS

jokerjp
01/06/2008, 10:16 AM
A new day and a better running pump. The pump is no longer loud it's now very quiet. The reason I was hesitant to post "initial" air numbers earlier in the thread is because I expected to get much better numbers after the pump was running smooth.

Here is the new update after a minor tweak to the venturi position.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152412899741707746"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/jokerjp/R4EMO9E-reI/AAAAAAAAAdQ/wUtA3b7TOZk/s400/IMG_2534.JPG" /></a>

We'll see if I can improve more on that number in the upcoming days.

jokerjp
01/06/2008, 10:17 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11533692#post11533692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Have you remeasure the air pull? The 200's sicce was pulling 50scfh according to MS


I've measured the air pull three times scroll up.

JCTewks
01/06/2008, 10:14 PM
joker
did you adjust the air nipple like i mentioned earlier? Is that where the air increase came from, or is it just typical mesh breakin?

What water level are you running it in?

kdblove_99
01/06/2008, 10:17 PM
Might have to get one of these after i start seeing feedback

b16drag
01/07/2008, 12:08 AM
That's what I'm waiting on... $300+ for a piece of equipment is NOT cheap.

jokerjp
01/07/2008, 07:31 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11538820#post11538820 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JCTewks
joker
did you adjust the air nipple like i mentioned earlier? Is that where the air increase came from, or is it just typical mesh breakin?

What water level are you running it in?

I did make several adjustments to the air intake piece, but I didn't see any major air increase upon doing so. What I did notice was a more steady air reading when I had it pulled back slightly where it was in my original picture. I'm open to suggestions on the best way to have the air intake mounted on the pump intake. I'll shoot a pic of how I have it currently later today.

I'm running in exactly 8" in all the pics I've posted, but I increased that to 9" last night to see what would happen.

Lagger
01/07/2008, 09:09 AM
Nice. Thanks for posting Joker :) I have a few Q's....can you please verify:

1) This is a genuine Sicce pump. Looks like the mesh & possibly venturi modded by M.S.?

2) Collection cup drilled for external waste collector. Is there a plug included for someone who doesn't use it?

Thanks

jokerjp
01/07/2008, 01:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11540847#post11540847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lagger
Nice. Thanks for posting Joker :) I have a few Q's....can you please verify:

1) This is a genuine Sicce pump. Looks like the mesh & possibly venturi modded by M.S.?

2) Collection cup drilled for external waste collector. Is there a plug included for someone who doesn't use it?

Thanks

As far as I can tell this is a genuine Sicce pump...I have no reason to think it's not. It looks and performs the same as my other Sicce pump. The mesh and venturi are being modded my Marine Solutions.

The collection cup is drilled nicely for an external waste collector. It does not include a plug...I used a vacuum line plug I had laying around in my garage.

b16drag
01/07/2008, 01:44 PM
I guess my question would be, how do you get these pumps to their optimal performance?

I guess time will tell... Thanks Joker!

jokerjp
01/07/2008, 01:48 PM
I've been trying several different mesh configurations today and the best I've come up with is posted below. I think I'm going to stop messing with it now and just let it run a few days. The only thing different between yesterday's best #'s and today's best is that I used spiderwire fishing line to attach the mesh instead of zip ties on the last attempt.

If I remove the pump from the skimmer body I'm getting 45-50 SCFH, but with it attached this is the best I've been able to achieve.

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152836890323234290"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/jokerjp/R4KN2dE-rfI/AAAAAAAAAd4/xTgfjtX7Md4/s400/IMG_2550.JPG" /></a>

You can see in the video a nice steady air draw.
http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5152838788698779138


On a side note I broke my first shaft today. Completely my fault as I was having startup issues with one of my configurations and snapped the ceramic shaft while trying to work on it while it was running...good thing I had an extra laying around :)

luke33
01/07/2008, 01:56 PM
Joker, what does the scfh do if you lower the water as low as it will go in the skimmmer? less head to test your theory, which is most likely correct. So the pump's do pull the air they are just being restricted somehow....hmmm. If thats the case then how would ati and orce be able to get the scfh out of the sicce's with teh same amount of head pressure. Whats the diameter of the output of the skimmer into the body? If the body taperes or restric's the flow it would be the problem. Thats a bummer to hear though.

b16drag
01/07/2008, 02:01 PM
Glad you tried spyderwire. I've always wonder why people used zipties to begin with... They are significantly bulkier and risk throwing off the balance of the wheel vs fishing line... <SHRUG> Keep us posted Joker!

I can tell you are a tinker bunny! haha!

jokerjp
01/07/2008, 02:06 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11542992#post11542992 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Joker, what does the scfh do if you lower the water as low as it will go in the skimmmer? less head to test your theory, which is most likely correct. So the pump's do pull the air they are just being restricted somehow....hmmm. If thats the case then how would ati and orce be able to get the scfh out of the sicce's with teh same amount of head pressure. Whats the diameter of the output of the skimmer into the body? If the body taperes or restric's the flow it would be the problem. Thats a bummer to hear though.

I've completely removed the mechanism to regulate water flow with this latest configuration so the water level is as low as it's going to get w/o altering the amount of water it's currently running in (8.5").

I'm getting very similar results on my ATI BM 160. I'm actually pulling about 5 SCFH more with the SWC unit, but I'm suspect that's due to my tweaking and not related to the skimmer body itself.

The pump's outflow into the skimmer body isn't restricted, but it does feed directly into a 90 degree elbow, which might be causing restriction, but is needed to direct the flow in a "swirl" before the bubble plate.

I'm going to let it run like this a few days then I may try lowering or raising the water level which is the last variable that i can think of.

I'm not bummed at all with these numbers. I honestly don't think I need > 30 SCFH to make this skimmer perform. Perhaps I'm naive, but I'm not sure the constant quest for more air is always better. It depends on the skimmer body and a host of other factors IMO.

luke33
01/07/2008, 02:13 PM
I'd agree with you on the 160 but the 200 and 250 are just begging for more air than that ; ) I'd just like to see some more air figures with one of those two. As you would i'm sure as well. Great job with the posts btw

jokerjp
01/07/2008, 02:17 PM
Hopefully someone with one of the bigger skimmers will post their number soon. I'm interested to see what others are getting!

notenoughtanks
01/07/2008, 03:54 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11539428#post11539428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by b16drag
That's what I'm waiting on... $300+ for a piece of equipment is NOT cheap.
I'm guessing you haven't bought much decent equipment then? I think it's a bargain ;)

b16drag
01/07/2008, 05:35 PM
Nope, I'm a cheap ba$stard that just buys SPS's and Zoas! ;)

I just think that if I am going to spend $300, it should work and work well! I'm not usually one to buy blindly... I'd like to think that I'm an informed consumer. And yes, I bought my odyssea skimmer knowingly.

jman77
01/07/2008, 06:05 PM
"I'm guessing you haven't bought much decent equipment then? I think it's a bargain"

Depends ... you pay 350 for something and still have to tinker with it to perform well.... is that a bargain ?

bbehring
01/07/2008, 06:16 PM
It's all relative. I've bought a $20 item that I've spent time and money on trying to mod/make better. Some just like to tinker and have better than average results that's all.

luke33
01/07/2008, 06:25 PM
My favorite skimmer pump is the odyssea wp1000. 39.99 and it will do 55+ scfh and never have restart problems.......I'm definately a cheapo

LA-Lawman
01/07/2008, 08:23 PM
do you have pics of the impellar tied with the spiderwire

notenoughtanks
01/07/2008, 09:04 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11544926#post11544926 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jman77
Depends ... you pay 350 for something and still have to tinker with it to perform well.... is that a bargain ? [/B]

Well if it performs like a 700 skimmer, then yes...
I was unaware the xtreme 200 requires tinkering, unless you were referring to something else. I know this thread is about the 160, but you said $350 so I assumed you meant the 200. I seen one in action, and based my opinion on that along with the great results I got from my $200 octo nw-150.

tsouth
01/07/2008, 09:53 PM
Can anybody tell me what size tubing to get so I can pick some up beforehand. Thanks

JCTewks
01/07/2008, 11:02 PM
It's 1/4" ID tubing.

jokerjp
01/08/2008, 11:03 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11546207#post11546207 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LA-Lawman
do you have pics of the impellar tied with the spiderwire

I didn't take any pics of the spiderwire tied impeller. It really doesn't look any different, but the next time I have the pump apart I'll snap a pic for ya.

saltydragon
01/08/2008, 05:15 PM
update?

would really like to see some pics of the 160 in action now that its a few days broken in..

VaderWS6
01/08/2008, 07:17 PM
Just received mine, I'll try to get pics up soon.

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 06:08 AM
Since a few folks have asked for updates I think I should share my testing plan. I will not be making any quick judgments on this piece of equipment. It's unfair to make comparisons between skimmers until after a reasonable break in period followed by a minimum of 2 weeks real world tank skimming IMO. I already made the mistake of posting "initial" air numbers and all that did was cause confusion when the performance greatly improved the next day.

So...here's my timeline

[list=1]
Skimmer will be running for a total of 10 days in the break in tub. Complete on Jan 14th
Skimmer will be installed on my tank and allowed to run for 2 weeks Complete on Jan 28th
I will post my comparison between the ATI BM 160 and the SWC/MSX 160. I plan to take comparison pics and measurements of the two units and post my thoughts by Jan 30th
[/list=1]

I honestly feel this time line is a bit rushed to get my full opinion, and I'll probably provide additional data at the 3 month mark.

In the meantime anyone interested in posting their opinions, pics, or questions feel free.

bkelley02
01/09/2008, 06:42 AM
I have the MSX 200 and it did come with a drain plug for the collection cup. I was a piece of fairly ridged tubing that is sealed on one side.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11540847#post11540847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lagger
Nice. Thanks for posting Joker :) I have a few Q's....can you please verify:

1) This is a genuine Sicce pump. Looks like the mesh & possibly venturi modded by M.S.?

2) Collection cup drilled for external waste collector. Is there a plug included for someone who doesn't use it?

Thanks

luke33
01/09/2008, 06:43 AM
I'd agree with you joker on time. Really a good breaking in takes around 2mths imo. But none the less with more users on board we'll get to our conclusion sooner anyhow.

Lagger
01/09/2008, 08:32 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11557128#post11557128 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bkelley02
I have the MSX 200 and it did come with a drain plug for the collection cup. I was a piece of fairly ridged tubing that is sealed on one side.

Nice. Thanks for the heads-up :thumbsup: Anybody else selling these besides M.S.?

b16drag
01/09/2008, 09:36 AM
I'd honestly have to thank joker for being an honest buyer and really giving this skimmer a good try... Like I said before, thanks for being our guinea pig! ;)

mg426
01/09/2008, 10:14 AM
I agree, I am tagging along with much interest. Thanks

luke33
01/09/2008, 10:41 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11557670#post11557670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lagger
Nice. Thanks for the heads-up :thumbsup: Anybody else selling these besides M.S.?

Nope.......which means they will be sold out in a week or so : (

VaderWS6
01/09/2008, 12:26 PM
So far, I'm very happy with the build quality of my 160 skimmer. I won't be hooking it up until this Saturday though. Could have included better instructions though.

cyclops23
01/09/2008, 12:43 PM
no kidding on the instructions thing. they suck. i'm pretty dumb, and i have been reading this thread and the "has anyone recieved their skimmer thread", looking for clues to put it together right. i ordered the mesh mod kit that luke posted on the other thread. so be expecting some questions from me when that gets here :)

mine's still in the box(MSX 160), i don't even have salt in the tank yet. but from looking at it, it seems to me to be a good build, much better than the euro reef i had for my old 55g.

2 questions though, for the small black tapered peice(i think it's the venturi? i'm skimmer dumb), which end goes in the pump? tapered or straight. sorry luke, i guessed by your saying the small end, you meant the staight, but i'm not sure. if it's the tapered end, do i want the taper up or down?

the other question is i think i want to put a gate valve mod on it. do i have to do this? my reasoning is it will be easier to adjust. if this is a good idea, where do i put the gate valve? before or after the riser?

anybody live in southern WI that can help an idiot like me with this? :)

cyclops23
01/09/2008, 12:50 PM
BTW, my only problem with it is had to modify my stand to make it fit into my sump. what a PITA. but it fits now and i can't wait to fire it up!
i ordered the mesh mod kit because it's supposed to have a restrictor that the 160 didn't come with. i may be wrong, i don't know. also because if my mesh is as uneven as jokers', i can redo it. i haven't looked at it yet, it might be ok.

would spyderwire fishing line work better than zip ties to tie the mesh on? if nothing else, i'll have some extra mesh. does the mesh ever need to be replaced?
sorry for all the questions.

luke33
01/09/2008, 01:34 PM
Yes, the mesh needs to be replaced every now and then, I generally check on mine every few mths and replace as needed. I have one pump going on a year without replacement. The small black piece that goes inside the male volute. The smaller diameter end goes in facing the impeller, larger faces the intake opening. As for a gatevalve mod, i'd let it break in a while first. FWIW, you don't have a riser tube when you have a gate valve, tht is your riser tube. Spider braid fishing line will work better for the sicce as its so light and will help in startup.

Just take a breath man and set it up and see what you have. Like joker has said the 160 does 30scfh or 800lph air......identical to the ati bm 160, along with diameter of body, neck as well. But the Bubble plate looks nicer on these.

cyclops23
01/09/2008, 01:57 PM
thanks luke33. i'll hold off on the gatevalve. i actually went down and really looked at the skimmer after i posted above, and i may pass on the gate valve altogether. pretty cool how i can turn the riser to adjust. for some reason i thought it was like my first skimmer (ER), where i had to move it up and down. i got rid of that skimmer pretty fast and went to a Deltec MC500. i really liked my 500.

is there a good trick to get the cover off the impellar? the grey piece(volute cover?) is really tight and i feel like i'm gonna break it if i put much more pressure on it.

do i need the 1/2" restrictor for the inlet?

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 04:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11559935#post11559935 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cyclops23
thanks luke33. i'll hold off on the gatevalve. i actually went down and really looked at the skimmer after i posted above, and i may pass on the gate valve altogether. pretty cool how i can turn the riser to adjust. for some reason i thought it was like my first skimmer (ER), where i had to move it up and down. i got rid of that skimmer pretty fast and went to a Deltec MC500. i really liked my 500.

is there a good trick to get the cover off the impellar? the grey piece(volute cover?) is really tight and i feel like i'm gonna break it if i put much more pressure on it.

do i need the 1/2" restrictor for the inlet?

I've played with the water level adjustment and I see no reason for a gate valve. The adjustment mechanism included is simple and works well....I like simple.

Getting the cover off the pump is a task best handled by BRUTE FORCE :) Seriously though it takes a fair amount of strength. Twist the cover counter clockwise until the 3 stops are free from the housing....basically as soon as you can see all of them they are free. Then simply wiggle the pump cover off. The o-ring gasket makes a very tight fit. I don't think you can break it with your hands, but I'd be careful using any tools.

You do need to install the included restrictor. The pump won't function well w/o it.

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 04:04 PM
would spyderwire fishing line work better than zip ties to tie the mesh on? if nothing else, i'll have some extra mesh. does the mesh ever need to be replaced?
sorry for all the questions.

Spiderwire works fine, but if you choose to use it make sure you tie it securely and use a good knot. I used a fishing lure knot. I can't be sure that the spiderwire works better than the zipties, but it doesn't cause any harm either.

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 04:12 PM
This morning before I left for work the collection cup on the 160 was about 1/2 full and the foam head was a little lower than the night before. I reasoned that the 10 gallons of water in the tub had been skimmed thoroughly and I needed to add more fuel for the skimmer. I proceeded to empty my skimmer cup from my display tank into the tub and I took off for work.

This is what I came home to -

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5153616882153991698"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/jokerjp/R4VTP9E-rhI/AAAAAAAAAes/p8v1Zc8NyEg/s400/IMG_2552.JPG" /></a>

I guess dumping a ton of skimmate into such a small volume of water caused the skimmer to overflow, subsequently emptying the 1/2 cup of skimmate from the SWC into the tub as well.
The end result is a GIANT RED TUB SKIMMER. I better hurry up and patent it before some other company steals my idea :D

Lesson learned....you can add too much of a good thing to the break in tub! Now I'm left to do a water change on my skimmer break in tub....good grief.

saltydragon
01/09/2008, 05:15 PM
ok...checked and rechecked my space in the stand......i have 24" of height i can use......will the 160 be a tight fit?.....what is the total height of the skimmer and how much is actually needed to remove the cup?
i am also building a new sump.... i believe 8" of water is good for this skimmer....but then 8" of water for my fuge and return seems low to me......new sump will be about 32"Lx15"Wx12"T...

thanks..

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 05:25 PM
All the way back on page one is the answer to your question. 22" min to get the collection cup off. I think you can safely run this skimmer in 8-10 inches of water, but I'm currently running it in 9 during break in.




The footprint is

Height - 21 1/2" - I'd say 22" min to get the collection cup off
Width - 7"
Length- 9" - the base is square @ 7" x 7", but the standpipe take up another inch and a a half or so.

saltydragon
01/09/2008, 05:34 PM
thanks joker....i looked for the post but guess i totally missed it....

so maximum is 10" so ill have to go with that.....(could use it for more water volume)
can someone explain why it wouldnt work over 11" of water.....

CyboRob
01/09/2008, 05:36 PM
Hey 160er's

Trying to put mine together and need a little help.
Where does this go?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s154/CyboRob/thingy.jpg

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 05:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11561586#post11561586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydragon
thanks joker....i looked for the post but guess i totally missed it....

so maximum is 10" so ill have to go with that.....(could use it for more water volume)
can someone explain why it wouldnt work over 11" of water.....

Stupid double post

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 05:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11561586#post11561586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydragon
thanks joker....i looked for the post but guess i totally missed it....

so maximum is 10" so ill have to go with that.....(could use it for more water volume)
can someone explain why it wouldnt work over 11" of water.....

I can't say for sure that it WON'T work deeper than 10" but I suspect that the water level in the skimmer won't be controllable beyond that depth. I'm guessing the skimmer body water level will be too high and you'll end up with an overflow situation.

Why don't you test it out in a tub and see for yourself?

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 05:40 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11561601#post11561601 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyboRob
Hey 160er's

Trying to put mine together and need a little help.
Where does this go?
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s154/CyboRob/thingy.jpg

Put that in the pump intake with the thicker side facing out. That's the flow restrictor.

ostrow
01/09/2008, 05:45 PM
I'm willing to bet that SWC didn't bother fixing the intake on the pump cover and that is why the pumps are not pulling over 20lpm. I'd like to see a photo of the grey cover without the reducer in there, one photo of the intake straight on from the front and one from the inside part of the cover.

Pics of my Sicce skimmer from Orca Systems are here, for reference/comparison:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1233652

nycsicktank
01/09/2008, 05:47 PM
great thread joker.

keep us posted

saltydragon
01/09/2008, 05:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11561625#post11561625 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
I can't say for sure that it WON'T work deeper than 10" but I suspect that the water level in the skimmer won't be controllable beyond that depth. I'm guessing the skimmer body water level will be too high and you'll end up with an overflow situation.

Why don't you test it out in a tub and see for yourself?

i havent ordered the skimmer yet.....still deciding on the 160 or a ex-1...
but your right....i will test the skimmer in a tub and see where it performs best before i finish the baffles in the sump.....if i decide to get this skimmer....

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 06:29 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11561677#post11561677 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
I'm willing to bet that SWC didn't bother fixing the intake on the pump cover and that is why the pumps are not pulling over 20lpm. I'd like to see a photo of the grey cover without the reducer in there, one photo of the intake straight on from the front and one from the inside part of the cover.

Pics of my Sicce skimmer from Orca Systems are here, for reference/comparison:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1233652

Hey ostrow! I just read that entire thread and I didn't see any pics of the intake cover....where did I miss them?

I'm happy to snap the pics you reqeusted, but it won't be till tomorrow.

badazztealcobra
01/09/2008, 06:39 PM
I took a quick shot from one of my pumps..... my camera sucks, but might be what youre looking for....

Ostrow, are you going to be at Keiths poker game again ?? If so I can bring the pumps for you to take a look at.....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/badazztealcobra/DSC01274.jpg

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/badazztealcobra/DSC01270.jpg

CyboRob
01/09/2008, 06:52 PM
I've got a big problem, built my sump to the specs of this footprint (7x9). Smallest side I can find is 8" and it does not fit in my sump.

I just want to smash it and quit this hobby right now!!!

saltydragon
01/09/2008, 07:19 PM
ooo..that sucks.....is the sump acrylic or glass?

jokerjp
01/09/2008, 07:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11562202#post11562202 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyboRob
I've got a big problem, built my sump to the specs of this footprint (7x9). Smallest side I can find is 8" and it does not fit in my sump.

I just want to smash it and quit this hobby right now!!!

I just remeasured and I agree that although the footprint is 7" by 7" square, with the outflow pipe being on the corner it looks like the workable footprint is 8" x 9" including the standpipe. I don't know how I missed this in my original measurement, and I apologize for the error. I wish I could modify my original post with the real footprint numbers to prevent issues by other RC members.

Please don't smash your skimmer, compared to other reef tasks sump baffles are easily moved.

ostrow
01/09/2008, 08:19 PM
jokerjp: The description of the mod needed to the cover is in the sicce pump thread. The one I linked to is just on my skimmer.

bad: Don't think I can make the game this time. Too bad I have enormous "frags" I could have brought. I can't see very well what I need to in those pics ... bit dark ... but it does look like it is dremel-ed out. If so, I can't for the life of me figure why you folks are only getting 15lpm on these pumps. I have 3 pulling 21-22lpm. When my skimmer was 2-pump both pulled 25-27lpm.

Something is wrong. Those first pics of the mesh look like awfully shoddy work to me. On these covers, if they are corrected it seems they were done with a dremel, not a CNC.

But, then again, these are made-in-China, dirt cheap skimmers. Prob to be expected.

JCTewks
01/09/2008, 10:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11562971#post11562971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
...But, then again, these are made-in-China, dirt cheap skimmers. Prob to be expected.

The pumps are made the same as all of the other Sicce's..in Italy :) As for the mods...the intake is opened to the full 1", by a drill not a dremel...I'm sure that your pumps from orca were donr the same way. Please don't start the "everything from china is crap" thing...we've all heard it enough :( Everything I have read says that the build quality in the skimmers is excellent...and I would say the same after seeing all 3 models in person. The MSX's are built like tanks!

badazztealcobra
01/09/2008, 11:48 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11562971#post11562971 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
jokerjp: The description of the mod needed to the cover is in the sicce pump thread. The one I linked to is just on my skimmer.

bad: Don't think I can make the game this time. Too bad I have enormous "frags" I could have brought. I can't see very well what I need to in those pics ... bit dark ... but it does look like it is dremel-ed out. If so, I can't for the life of me figure why you folks are only getting 15lpm on these pumps. I have 3 pulling 21-22lpm. When my skimmer was 2-pump both pulled 25-27lpm.

Something is wrong. Those first pics of the mesh look like awfully shoddy work to me. On these covers, if they are corrected it seems they were done with a dremel, not a CNC.

But, then again, these are made-in-China, dirt cheap skimmers. Prob to be expected.

Im guessing alot of the numbers on his is the difference of the skimmer sizes.... Unless im not understanding all of this (which could easily be... :lol: ) When he disconnected the pump from the body his air meter was pegged (so over 24 lpm at 36 watts. )

Would the fact that his skimmer body diameter is only 6.5" versus your 10" body skimmer make a difference ??? I'm guessing it would, but i'm not as knowledgeable as alot of you on these skimmers and their air numbers.

I do think the meshwheels were rushed because they were already running late due to customs and the holidays, but I'm guessing they will get that all ironed out....

The pumps are the same ones you're using, so I dont know about the cheap made in China comment... I also don't think they are "dirt cheap" skimmers... mine seems to be VERY well made, I just didnt feel like blowing $700 on a skimmer with one sicce pump, when I can get a much larger (and better designed IMO) one with 2 sicce pumps for $475.

I would say once I get my orca mods from protein-skimmer in and installed, we can test my MSX250 out and see how it goes if you would be up for it.... I only have a kill a watt, not an air meter.... :(

ostrow
01/10/2008, 05:06 AM
My pump covers were not simply drilled or dremel-ed. I can say that for sure. Well, the first one one dremel-ed but the other two were done more professionally. Unless you get your pumps from Shan, though, you will not get a new cover. Isn't his separate mod kit just mesh and intake reducer? I know the kit doesn't include a new pump cover!

I've seen these pumps pull well over 25lpm on an 8.5" skimmer diameter. Michael got over 35lpm on an 8" Euro-Reef body. But if the air jumps once disconnected then quite obviously something about the design is negatively affecting the performance. It would be good to figure out what that is.

bkelley02
01/10/2008, 05:40 AM
Shan, being from Protien-Skimmers.com?

luke33
01/10/2008, 06:24 AM
Well it seems like the 160 is restricted to only do 30scfh as the pump off the skimmer does around 50. Pretty sure the 200 and 250 are full throttle at 50. I'll test mine when i get home as its supose to be here today.

jokerjp
01/10/2008, 07:32 AM
I think the limiting factor on the 160 is the 90 degree eblow that the pump output empties into under the bubble plate.

As far as the 160 is concerned I have no idea why anyone thinks it needs more air than it's currently getting. @ ~30 SCFH I have the water level adjustment completely removed (as low as it will go) and the bubbles are breaking at a good level. Any more air and it would simply overflow IMO.

luke33
01/10/2008, 08:10 AM
Definately, there's no way it could handle more than 30-32scfh. Thats 900lph and enough air for a moderately stocked 150g. It looks to be one of the best compact skimmers out there. More room in your sump for other equipment!

badazztealcobra
01/10/2008, 08:19 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11565004#post11565004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ostrow
My pump covers were not simply drilled or dremel-ed. I can say that for sure. Well, the first one one dremel-ed but the other two were done more professionally. Unless you get your pumps from Shan, though, you will not get a new cover. Isn't his separate mod kit just mesh and intake reducer? I know the kit doesn't include a new pump cover!

I've seen these pumps pull well over 25lpm on an 8.5" skimmer diameter. Michael got over 35lpm on an 8" Euro-Reef body. But if the air jumps once disconnected then quite obviously something about the design is negatively affecting the performance. It would be good to figure out what that is.

Can you get some good shots of your pump covers, my buddy runs a CNC and i'm sure I could clean mine up more.... just need a reference cover....

I think that arguing about the scfh on the 160 is about a done deal... I think like luke and joker that you dont need any more than that on a 6.5" body skimmer,,,,, it's working great the way it is.... When you start talking the MSX200 and MSX250, THATS where we should be looking to get these larger numbers...

Yes the new kit from him is just a new reducer and new mesh.... I plan on re-doing the mesh myself (im anal about that kinda thing) and then cleaning up the pumps if they need any more (I dont think they do) after seeing your cover.

ostrow
01/10/2008, 08:28 AM
Oh I thought this was an 8" diameter. You are right.

Any restriction or redirection on the output will severely degrade the performance of the pump, so that explains it too. If the 200/250 models don't have this then the pumps will perform better on there.

luke33
01/10/2008, 08:33 AM
Yep, the 200's and 250's go straight into the bubble plate. I'll throw an air meter on it tonight after i get it going.

badazztealcobra
01/10/2008, 11:26 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11565827#post11565827 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Yep, the 200's and 250's go straight into the bubble plate. I'll throw an air meter on it tonight after i get it going.

If you have to rebuild the meshwheel can you take a few pics of it.... :thumbsup:

I got my rebuild kits from protein-skimmer today..... I should be rebuilding tonight....

luke33
01/10/2008, 12:15 PM
Yep, i'll throw it on stock, then rebuild the mesh if i'm not satisfied...and i'll take pics of everything. Pretty sure there putting alot of mesh on them now and including extra mesh when you order one per MS. Which is cool.

GSMguy
01/10/2008, 12:22 PM
Luke did you buy a SWC skimmer?

tsouth
01/10/2008, 12:28 PM
Well I got mine in today and it's breaking in right now. The bubbles are flowin so i'm glad the drain is on the cup. Too bad it's so tall that I have to take out one of my drawers! The other problem I have is that the pump won't turn if i fully push it in to connect it to the inlet so its pretty much barely connected around the o ring but it's working.

luke33
01/10/2008, 12:28 PM
Just got delivered today, so i'll have one fired up when i get home, can't wait to see it : )

CyboRob
01/10/2008, 03:28 PM
Thank You

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11561635#post11561635 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
Put that in the pump intake with the thicker side facing out. That's the flow restrictor.

CyboRob
01/10/2008, 03:35 PM
Thanks for the clamness :)

Just got the baffle moved over and should be up and running tommorrow night.

Yeap coming off the corner like that there is noway the footprint is 7" x 9"
I wonder why they did it like that?



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11562490#post11562490 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
I just remeasured and I agree that although the footprint is 7" by 7" square, with the outflow pipe being on the corner it looks like the workable footprint is 8" x 9" including the standpipe. I don't know how I missed this in my original measurement, and I apologize for the error. I wish I could modify my original post with the real footprint numbers to prevent issues by other RC members.

Please don't smash your skimmer, compared to other reef tasks sump baffles are easily moved.

glassbox-design
01/10/2008, 03:36 PM
they should have made the plate like the BK Minis. if you can remove the elbow and "plug" the diffuser holes where the pump hits directly I would think it would help.

tsouth
01/11/2008, 12:13 AM
I have some good news and bad news.
Good: I finally have the pump spinning with the volute and pump notched and sealed plus it's starting to show some skimmate into the cup.
Bad: The shaft snapped while trying to adjust it. I put the two pieces back in and it works with the volute sealed and all. How do i replace the shaft and where? I can't find replacement parts anywhere and the place i did find them is a world supplier in new zealand! I read that sicce pumps run better without the shafts. Is this true?

One other question. What size tubing for the Cup?

MrSquid
01/11/2008, 10:27 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11572941#post11572941 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
One other question. What size tubing for the Cup?

I bought new tubing the other day @ Lowe's. I think it was 3/8" ID. (but I do remember that the item Lowe's item # was 22272)

cyclops23
01/11/2008, 10:44 AM
FWIW, i looked at my impellar yesterday, and i thought the mesh mod was done pretty evenly. i will post some pics later.

kdblove_99
01/11/2008, 12:15 PM
been following this was wondering what the word was? Is the 160 not that great?

I seem to see the mesh mod job is pretty shotty?

jokerjp
01/11/2008, 12:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11575154#post11575154 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cyclops23
FWIW, i looked at my impellar yesterday, and i thought the mesh mod was done pretty evenly. i will post some pics later.


That's good news. The quality of mesh on my 160 was probably a learning curve issue along with a time crunch to satisfy customers. The power of RC is the problem has already been addressed by the vendor and apparently resolved. To me that's one of the greatest things about a community as large and influential as this one.

jokerjp
01/11/2008, 12:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11568902#post11568902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Flint&Eric
they should have made the plate like the BK Minis. if you can remove the elbow and "plug" the diffuser holes where the pump hits directly I would think it would help.

I'll bite....what would have to be different to facilitate this on the SWC? The bubble plate is removable along with the elbow so I could in theory drop the elbow and plug the directly impacted holes, but as I've stated numerous times in this thread I really don't see the need for more air for the size of this skimmer.

Retzius
01/11/2008, 12:38 PM
I got mine fired up yesterday, I had to mess with the pump a little bit, but its now working. I plan on redoing the mesh.

I woke up this morning and saw some skimate. I'll post numbers once I get my airflow meter.

glassbox-design
01/11/2008, 01:17 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11575937#post11575937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
I'll bite....what would have to be different to facilitate this on the SWC? The bubble plate is removable along with the elbow so I could in theory drop the elbow and plug the directly impacted holes, but as I've stated numerous times in this thread I really don't see the need for more air for the size of this skimmer.

that was my thinking. but like you said, is it needed?

bkelley02
01/11/2008, 01:32 PM
When you got your first skimmate, did you leave the wedge pipe wide open? The first night I did as well ( leaving it wide open ) but now I struggle to get it create any to go into the cup without it being extremely watery. I know I have to redo the mesh though.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11576051#post11576051 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Retzius
I got mine fired up yesterday, I had to mess with the pump a little bit, but its now working. I plan on redoing the mesh.

I woke up this morning and saw some skimate. I'll post numbers once I get my airflow meter.

Retzius
01/11/2008, 02:12 PM
I actually closed mine more and got dryer skimate. When I did this, the skimate started climbing up the neck but I never saw it go over the neck since I had to leave. I have to play with it once I get home but I think I should get it to go over the collection cup.

Also, I didnt want it to go over the cup because I was afraid of coming home to an overflowing cup. Hopefully it will be nice and dark when I get home.

I too need to redo the mesh on mine.

CyboRob
01/11/2008, 10:39 PM
Why does the collection cup have a hole in the bottom of it?

Do we have to route that to our own homemade collection cup?

I don't get it.

saltydragon
01/11/2008, 10:41 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11580522#post11580522 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyboRob
Why does the collection cup have a hole in the bottom of it?

Do we have to route that to our own homemade collection cup?

I don't get it.

yes its a drain for the cup....you can use it....if not..there should be a plug that came with your skimmer.

tsouth
01/11/2008, 10:53 PM
So i went out and got a CF shaft this morning and baby this thing is saweet! Yeah yeah first skimmer for me but hey it's badass for what its worth. It took a good 30 minutes to sand down the shaft to the right diameter but now it runs soo smoooth! Plus I'm having no problems turning it on and off. How do I run it for dry skimmate? Open or closed?

CyboRob
01/11/2008, 11:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11580529#post11580529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltydragon
yes its a drain for the cup....you can use it....if not..there should be a plug that came with your skimmer.

Nope no plug.
Saw a picture in another thread with plastic and a rubber band around it, guess I'll do that too.

Thanks

tsouth
01/12/2008, 12:23 AM
Hmm mine came with a plug also. It came in a clear baggie with the tubing and the volute nozzle the airline attatches to.

dgill
01/12/2008, 06:55 AM
Look carefully in the parts bag as it is not immediately apparent that the small piece of tubing is a plug. Its a short piece of clear tubing with one end pinched and heat sealed and you (carefully) insert this over the drain stub of the collection cup. It works great without the need for bulky fittings or valves.

malawinovice
01/12/2008, 08:55 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11565693#post11565693 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Definately, there's no way it could handle more than 30-32scfh. Thats 900lph and enough air for a moderately stocked 150g. It looks to be one of the best compact skimmers out there. More room in your sump for other equipment!


is the test for the Octopus Premium Extreme INT-PS150 Protein Skimmer or the SWC one?


Thanks

flasher1
01/12/2008, 10:34 AM
swc

CyboRob
01/12/2008, 12:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11581495#post11581495 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgill
Look carefully in the parts bag as it is not immediately apparent that the small piece of tubing is a plug. Its a short piece of clear tubing with one end pinched and heat sealed and you (carefully) insert this over the drain stub of the collection cup. It works great without the need for bulky fittings or valves.

Aah that's what that thing is!
Got it.

Thanks
Rob

dgill
01/12/2008, 02:40 PM
tsoouth, any pics? Would love to see the 160 in action!

tsouth
01/12/2008, 06:02 PM
I have a video that has the skimmer in it but not very much. I was taking a video of my whole tank but I'll have a much better video this upcoming week as i'm going to be receiving the upgrade kit for sicce pumps from Orca.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v318/tommyt01/?action=view&current=DSCN2721.flv

daytonreefRob
01/13/2008, 10:21 AM
What is a CF?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11580568#post11580568 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
So i went out and got a CF shaft this morning and baby this thing is saweet! Yeah yeah first skimmer for me but hey it's badass for what its worth. It took a good 30 minutes to sand down the shaft to the right diameter but now it runs soo smoooth! Plus I'm having no problems turning it on and off. How do I run it for dry skimmate? Open or closed?

jokerjp
01/13/2008, 10:26 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11589500#post11589500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by daytonreefRob
What is a CF?

Rob
I assume CF stands for Carbon Fiber in this case. These shafts are popular as part of doing an MJ mod. Available at many hobby stores and online. I've never personally used one as a shaft for an internal pump, but I don't see why they wouldn't work if properly sized.

tsouth
01/13/2008, 10:50 AM
Joker is right. The only reason I went and did this was because I broke the ceramic shaft otherwise the ceramic is just fine. I took a .157 CF shaft and wet sanded it down until it was smooth with no play.

daytonreefRob
01/13/2008, 10:55 AM
Is the performance any different when using the carbon fiber over the ceramic?

badazztealcobra
01/13/2008, 10:59 AM
I'm having problems getting my pumps to run on my MSX250.... If the volute cover is loosened it spins and runs okay. I took it back apart and some of the clearancing that is done to the pumps is just not very good. I know MS was in a hurry to get these out to us, so I'm thinking that the clearancing they did just isnt enough.

I took the mesh off the impellar and it ran fine even with the volute cover tightened all the way down. My guess from what I can tell is that the back of the impellar where the zip ties come through is contacting the pump body. If you look on the body they did some "clearancing" but it's not a great job. I'm waiting to see some pictures from someone with an ATI BM200 to see how their sicce is clearanced..... My guess is it's clearanced a little more to allow for the zip ties....

If thats the case, it's getting thrown into a CNC this week and clearanced really nicely. :D

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff204/badazztealcobra/psk2500pumpclearancing1.jpg

You can see where they tried to take down the corner, just not a great job..... Just in a hurry I'm assuming. Anyone else have one that spins fine even with the volute cover all the way on ??? If so, can you take a look and see how clearanced this area is ???

dgill
01/13/2008, 12:13 PM
I haven't fired mine up yet but checked my pumps and IMO the tie wraps are too thick without enough clearance behind the impeller and this combined with the rough dremel job on the pump motor housing (underneath the impeller) would explain why the pumps are locking up. Also, we should be able to completely close the pump cover without the issues folks are having. Unfortunately, I have to say that this first batch of pumps is not acceptable. Let's hope Marine Solutions gets it right on the next batch.

In the meantime, for those with the first batch of pumps, I'd recommend finding a way to smooth out the dremel job and then re-work the mesh mod on the impeller using smaller tie wraps OR even heavy duty monofilament fishing line as I've seen on some other threads. This should eliminate the problems and make the pumps more reliable.

badazztealcobra
01/13/2008, 12:18 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11590182#post11590182 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dgill
I haven't fired mine up yet but checked my pumps and IMO the tie wraps are too thick without enough clearance behind the impeller and this combined with the rough dremel job on the pump motor housing (underneath the impeller) would explain why the pumps are locking up. Also, we should be able to completely close the pump cover without the issues folks are having. Unfortunately, I have to say that this first batch of pumps is not acceptable. Let's hope Marine Solutions gets it right on the next batch.

In the meantime, for those with the first batch of pumps, I'd recommend finding a way to smooth out the dremel job and then re-work the mesh mod on the impeller using smaller tie wraps OR even heavy duty monofilament fishing line as I've seen on some other threads. This should eliminate the problems and make the pumps more reliable.

+1

Im sure MS is already handling this as we speak and their CS has been top notch so far. I'm going to see when I can get to my buddys tool and die shop and get this thing cleaned up... I'll post my findings and take a few pics of it also....

tsouth
01/13/2008, 07:48 PM
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v318/tommyt01/?action=view&current=DSCN2723.flv

JCTewks
01/13/2008, 10:11 PM
Marine solutions is in the process of remedying the problem with the zipties rubbing. I was there this weekend and they are really working hard to get theses skimmers out to you alll as well as fix some unforseeable first run problems. I'm sure that once everything is remedied there will be no more issues. The build quality on these is amazing...especially compared to some of the "better" high end skimmers i've seen that are 4X the price.

b16drag
01/14/2008, 01:14 AM
I'm getting my MSX 160 shipped tomorrow. I hope they've figured it all out!

VaderWS6
01/14/2008, 11:47 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11593213#post11593213 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v318/tommyt01/?action=view&current=DSCN2723.flv

Mine is producing a lot of skimmate, but the bubbles aren't going thru the bubble plate as evenly as yours. How can I fix this? Does it matter which direction the inlet is pointed?

tsouth
01/14/2008, 02:34 PM
My inlet is pointing to go in a circular motion inside the bubble trap slightly angled towards the wall. I would HIGHLY recommend purchasing the upgrade kit from protein-skimmer.com. I just installed mine today and i'll have a new video up asap. The bubbles are way smaller and this beast is uncontrollable right now. I can't stop it from overflowing plus the air coming into the pump is surging super loudly

jokerjp
01/16/2008, 05:14 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11557012#post11557012 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
So...here's my timeline

[list=1]
Skimmer will be running for a total of 10 days in the break in tub. Complete on Jan 14th
Skimmer will be installed on my tank and allowed to run for 2 weeks Complete on Jan 28th
I will post my comparison between the ATI BM 160 and the SWC/MSX 160. I plan to take comparison pics and measurements of the two units and post my thoughts by Jan 30th
[/list=1]


The skimmer was installed on my tank tonight. First thing I noticed is that it is slightly noisier than the BM160 it replaced. I'm sure this is due to the fact that the pump is "hard" plumbed vs the rubber mount of the 160. For me this is an issue because my tank is completely SILENT except for my Vortech which is the loudest piece of equipment. With the stand closed it's not a enough louder to be relevant, but with it open I can hear a hum that wasn't present with the BM.

I'm a little behind schedule, but I don't like to rush these things. My worst nightmare is trying to adjust a skimmer as it breaks in or as I tweak it WHILE IT'S ON MY TANK! So much easier just to take my time and do it right the first time. Hopefully my next post will include REAL skimmate pics :-)

VaderWS6
01/16/2008, 08:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11598786#post11598786 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
My inlet is pointing to go in a circular motion inside the bubble trap slightly angled towards the wall. I would HIGHLY recommend purchasing the upgrade kit from protein-skimmer.com. I just installed mine today and i'll have a new video up asap. The bubbles are way smaller and this beast is uncontrollable right now. I can't stop it from overflowing plus the air coming into the pump is surging super loudly

I can't find the upgrade, can you post a link to it?

luke33
01/16/2008, 08:58 PM
Here ya go big man, from one of my original posts...

http://www.protein-skimmer.com/shopping.asp?id=446996&itemid=10097&ct=0&shopperid=77850&merchantid=446996&shop=itemdetail.asp

VaderWS6
01/17/2008, 11:50 AM
The left side of my bubble plate is slightly angled up (maybe from the flow) and part of the bubbles flow over the edge of the plate. I've noticed the bubbles/flow is more concentrated on the left side of the skimmer. Will this affect performance very much? I'm getting skimmate, but not as much as I think I should. I've got it wide open right now, should I close it?

luke33
01/17/2008, 11:55 AM
It depends on how dark the skimmate is. If its dark and not clogging up the neck to bad i'd leave it the way it is. If its clogging up the neck alot i'd raise it up a bit. As for the water it shouldn't matter as long as the foam head in the neck is consistently moving in the up position.

VaderWS6
01/17/2008, 12:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11622570#post11622570 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
It depends on how dark the skimmate is. If its dark and not clogging up the neck to bad i'd leave it the way it is. If its clogging up the neck alot i'd raise it up a bit. As for the water it shouldn't matter as long as the foam head in the neck is consistently moving in the up position.

It goes up, and then down, then up, and down. Eventually it pushes up and over a little, then down. What would happen if I took out the J inlet tube and replaced with a T tube?

luke33
01/17/2008, 12:34 PM
Not sure, it would be distributed equally though. I have a 45 on my recirc right now and notice this a bit as well. I was planning on putting a t on it but didn't have one at the time i modded it, and now that its in a skim off i don't want to touch either one.

VaderWS6
01/17/2008, 12:37 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11622826#post11622826 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Not sure, it would be distributed equally though. I have a 45 on my recirc right now and notice this a bit as well. I was planning on putting a t on it but didn't have one at the time i modded it, and now that its in a skim off i don't want to touch either one.

I'll run to Lowe's tonight and see what I can find. :)

luke33
01/17/2008, 12:40 PM
Can you remove the fitting or are you going to have to cut it off?

VaderWS6
01/17/2008, 12:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11622850#post11622850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Can you remove the fitting or are you going to have to cut it off?

The J tube just easily pulls out.

luke33
01/17/2008, 01:00 PM
Nice!. Yea i'd get a 45 degree and a t and see what happens. You really want the air circulating like a whirlpool or dispersing equally like the t will do. I just wonder what each will do to the air. Without the J fitting it will be unrestricted so i'm guessing you'll get another 5-10scfh.

VaderWS6
01/17/2008, 08:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11622994#post11622994 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Nice!. Yea i'd get a 45 degree and a t and see what happens. You really want the air circulating like a whirlpool or dispersing equally like the t will do. I just wonder what each will do to the air. Without the J fitting it will be unrestricted so i'm guessing you'll get another 5-10scfh.


I just don't understand why they don't use a T fitting instead of the J fitting? Or even a quad fitting? :confused:

luke33
01/17/2008, 08:15 PM
The t fitting will restrict the air a bit though, so thats not a good thing! lol

JCTewks
01/17/2008, 10:45 PM
on the 160 I think you'll need some sort of restriction to keep the air under 35scfh so you can keep the skimmer under control. THe neck on the 160 is not going to do well at 40+ scfh. My guess is that the elbow inside of the bubble plate serves two purposes....it keeps the air draw down where it should be, and creates a "swirl" inside the bubble plate so that the bubbles don't just rocket out of the holes in the PB, but rise gently instead.

luke33
01/18/2008, 06:20 AM
I agree JCT but how about the new coralvue octo pro with a 4" neck and 50scfh........the pics show that it can't handle the air, don't think they designed it as well.

bbehring
01/18/2008, 09:06 AM
Luke, you don't think the XWC 160 is designed as well or the Octo pro?

luke33
01/18/2008, 09:24 AM
I think the msx is designed better as the neck is a much smoother transition and is a bit wider. The neck on the pro is ugly for one but its not nearly designed as well so it won't be able to take the air as well. They are trying to push 50scfh through 4", which won't work well. They should have made the neck's 4.5" or 5". The msx neck's are designed like a cone which will enable them to take air better than many skimmers. Well, look at the old octo neck and body taper, it was nearly flat with a 4" neck sticking in the middle. They did it right this time around. Not that the old design was bad, just not as good.

Bunkerbean
01/18/2008, 09:41 AM
What is this skimmer rated for? Can it tackle a heavy stocked 125? Right now I have a modded Octo NW-150 on it. Trying to decide the perfect upgrade skimmer.

JRaquatics
01/18/2008, 09:46 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11629704#post11629704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
I think the msx is designed better as the neck is a much smoother transition and is a bit wider. The neck on the pro is ugly for one but its not nearly designed as well so it won't be able to take the air as well. They are trying to push 50scfh through 4", which won't work well. They should have made the neck's 4.5" or 5". The msx neck's are designed like a cone which will enable them to take air better than many skimmers. Well, look at the old octo neck and body taper, it was nearly flat with a 4" neck sticking in the middle. They did it right this time around. Not that the old design was bad, just not as good.

Just found out last night that the neck on the pro is 4.5".

Bunkerbean
01/18/2008, 01:17 PM
After talking with Luke a little bit I think I am going to do the MSX 200.

jokerjp
01/18/2008, 03:46 PM
48 hours after installation on my tank
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5156950335121436194"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R5ErAdE-riI/AAAAAAAAAfY/gZ0oUuIzD6A/s400/IMG_2556.JPG" /></a>

I'm happy with the production and quality of the skimmate.

Now I know why the collection cup comes drilled for an external waste collector. The holds quite a bit less material than my BM 160 and if it wasn't setup with a drain it would be a royal PITA to clean it every 3 days.

VaderWS6
01/18/2008, 06:08 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11632644#post11632644 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
48 hours after installation on my tank
<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jokerjp/SWC160/photo#5156950335121436194"><img src="http://lh5.google.com/jokerjp/R5ErAdE-riI/AAAAAAAAAfY/gZ0oUuIzD6A/s400/IMG_2556.JPG" /></a>

I'm happy with the production and quality of the skimmate.

Now I know why the collection cup comes drilled for an external waste collector. The holds quite a bit less material than my BM 160 and if it wasn't setup with a drain it would be a royal PITA to clean it every 3 days.

What the? I don't have nearly that much skimmate in mine! Not even close!! I wonder if there's something wrong with mine? I get like a quarter of an inch of skimmate in 4-5 days. It has been running for 1 week.

jokerjp
01/18/2008, 06:12 PM
Keep in mind that this skimmer was broken in under ideal conditions in a tub with loads of nasty skimmate for 12 days while I tweaked it's performance with an air meter and kill-a-watt. The extra effort spent tuning it is probably paying dividends in my tank.

Be patient and give it another week before you worry about the production.

VaderWS6
01/18/2008, 06:23 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11633684#post11633684 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
Keep in mind that this skimmer was broken in under ideal conditions in a tub with loads of nasty skimmate for 12 days while I tweaked it's performance with an air meter and kill-a-watt. The extra effort spent tuning it is probably paying dividends in my tank.

Be patient and give it another week before you worry about the production.

I hope I see some dividends being paid by next Saturday! :D

Anyone else getting as much skimmate as Joker, without tweaking their 160?

Retzius
01/18/2008, 08:08 PM
I got about an inch in 24 hrs. It was about the same color too. I should have taken a pic.

cashman95
01/19/2008, 09:36 PM
Joker, Can you give us a quick run down on the tuning/modding that you did to yours.....I am too lazy to go back again....!

jokerjp
01/20/2008, 05:12 AM
There really isn't that much to it,the key was I was using an air meter during each step of the process to let me know what worked and what didn't.

My end state was 2 layers of "flat back" enkamat tied on with spider wire fishing line. The air intake piece is just barely visible when viewing the pump with the flow restrictor installed. I would advise against jamming the air intake all the way into the pump...it blocks too much water flow. The skimmer is running in 8.5" of water.

The easiest way to "tune" the mesh in my opinion is to attach the mesh, then using only the shaft and the cover (not the pump body) push the impeller into it's final position and clip any mesh that might be dragging on the cover face.

cashman95
01/20/2008, 07:52 AM
Thank You! Mine is really not creating any skimmate, maybe a little, but its clear and random????? Its been up and running for about 2 weeks now? Does it just need more time? Its running right beside an octopus 150 and the octo is really skimming some nasty stuff, but not the 160????

VaderWS6
01/20/2008, 10:29 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11642160#post11642160 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
There really isn't that much to it,the key was I was using an air meter during each step of the process to let me know what worked and what didn't.

My end state was 2 layers of "flat back" enkamat tied on with spider wire fishing line. The air intake piece is just barely visible when viewing the pump with the flow restrictor installed. I would advise against jamming the air intake all the way into the pump...it blocks too much water flow. The skimmer is running in 8.5" of water.

The easiest way to "tune" the mesh in my opinion is to attach the mesh, then using only the shaft and the cover (not the pump body) push the impeller into it's final position and clip any mesh that might be dragging on the cover face.

So do you have the air intake with the pointed end going into or out of the hole?

jokerjp
01/20/2008, 11:08 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11643443#post11643443 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by VaderWS6
So do you have the air intake with the pointed end going into or out of the hole?

I've tried it both ways and it didn't seem to matter as long as the air intake didn't protrude too far into the air restrictor. I left it with the pointed end hooked to the air tubing and the flat end in the pump last time because it was easier to keep in place that way.

VaderWS6
01/20/2008, 11:40 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11643719#post11643719 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
I've tried it both ways and it didn't seem to matter as long as the air intake didn't protrude too far into the air restrictor. I left it with the pointed end hooked to the air tubing and the flat end in the pump last time because it was easier to keep in place that way.

I've got mine jammed as far in as it will go. Maybe this is making a difference. As soon as I go home tonight, I'll move it out a little. I'm just totally disappointed with my 160's performance so far, I hope the changes I make will produce some good results. Is the protein-skimmer.com mesh mod kit really worth it? Doesn't look like you get much for $12.... Is there an alternative? Also, is the air silencer supposed to be above the collection cup? I've seen a 160 that had the riser tube/silencer below the collection cup.

tsouth
01/21/2008, 12:09 AM
Well since I can only run 1 layer of mesh because this skimmer cannot handle 2 or three, it's not worth the money for the extra kit from protein-skimmer.com unless you want the new restrictor and fitting. I'm p/o'd I can't run more than one layer of mesh without it overflowing!

JCTewks
01/21/2008, 02:07 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11649061#post11649061 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
Well since I can only run 1 layer of mesh because this skimmer cannot handle 2 or three, it's not worth the money for the extra kit from protein-skimmer.com unless you want the new restrictor and fitting. I'm p/o'd I can't run more than one layer of mesh without it overflowing!

What kind of air draw are you getting with one layer? Are you using the blavk restrictor?

nycsicktank
01/21/2008, 04:21 PM
joker
whats your stocklist? heavy bioload?

tsouth
01/21/2008, 05:48 PM
I don't have a meter or anything. I am using the restrictor that came from the mod kit at protein-skimmer.com

tsouth
01/21/2008, 08:04 PM
FYI the mod kit from protein-skimmer.com is useless on our 160's as the new restrictor doesn't restrict enough unless you use 1 layer of mesh.

jokerjp
01/21/2008, 08:06 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11653640#post11653640 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by nycsicktank
joker
whats your stocklist? heavy bioload?

Corals
I have about a 15 different SPS mostly small frags with a few small colonies. I have a few LPS as well. A sun coral and a couple of zoos for good measure.

Fish
Flame Angel
Royal Gramma
Dottyback
Clown fish
Christmas Wrasse

Tank is a 70 gallon with a 40 breeder sump. I estimate 80-85 total gallons. I run a fuge with cheato and do weekly 15% water changes.

I'm fully stocked on fish and I consider it average bio-load.

jokerjp
01/21/2008, 08:10 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11655736#post11655736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
FYI the mod kit from protein-skimmer.com is useless on our 160's as the new restrictor doesn't restrict enough unless you use 1 layer of mesh.

I ordered one of these just out of curiosity. When it comes I'll put it on the meter and kill-a-watt and let you know how it turns out.

VaderWS6
01/21/2008, 08:23 PM
Alright, it was the tube that goes into the pumps intake. I had it jammed in too far. Now I'm getting some awesome air, and about an inch of skimmate within almost 24 hours. Very happy :dance:


I pulled the tube out halfway and my skimmer went nuts and overflowed. I adjusted it just right, now I just have to figure out how to get that kink out of the tube.... :confused:

howman
01/21/2008, 09:00 PM
Vader.
Just buy some vinyl tubing at home depot.
the tubing they supply is a real PITA

I found that the pumps started better without the kinks..
just my .02 cents after fiddling around for an hour tonight.

tsouth
01/21/2008, 09:05 PM
what your guys' skimmate look like? I want some dark brown coffeeness, not dark green. My bioload is only 4 fish, 2 shrimp, snails, and a handful of corals

Retzius
01/21/2008, 09:07 PM
Hey joker,

Do you know where you got the "flatback enkamat"? I bought some enkamat off ebay but its just the regular p4 non flatback. Got some extra to sell to me ?:D , Thanks.

jokerjp
01/22/2008, 05:49 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11656323#post11656323 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Retzius
Hey joker,

Do you know where you got the "flatback enkamat"? I bought some enkamat off ebay but its just the regular p4 non flatback. Got some extra to sell to me ?:D , Thanks.

I ordered some extra for my BM160 from greg @ reefgeek. I don't have any extra laying around at this point.

luke33
01/22/2008, 06:15 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11656300#post11656300 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tsouth
what your guys' skimmate look like? I want some dark brown coffeeness, not dark green. My bioload is only 4 fish, 2 shrimp, snails, and a handful of corals

Here's the color of the skimmate from my msx200. Its finally starting to break in but wanted to share the color.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Skimmoff41-19-08.jpg

isistius
01/22/2008, 05:26 PM
well, i was going to get this skimmer (msx160) but after re-checking my sump, i only have an absolute max width of 7 3/4". so i think i'm going to have to pass on it, unless someone can tell me otherwise.....

Retzius
01/22/2008, 06:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11657927#post11657927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jokerjp
I ordered some extra for my BM160 from greg @ reefgeek. I don't have any extra laying around at this point.

Thanks joker, I'll try giving him a call.

bkelley02
01/22/2008, 07:27 PM
Luke,

Do you still have your wedge pipe wide open or did you close it down quite a bit to get that skimmate?? Something must not be quite right with mine unless it's just because I don't have that high of a bioload.

luke33
01/22/2008, 07:38 PM
Its wide open man. I'll take a few pics tonight and post them of the last couple days if i get a chance. The 200 and 160 are definately alot different with how you set them as the 200 will handle alot more air, but if you set the 160 just right it'll pull this color skimmate no problem, sometimes it takes a couple months to get that black nog.

b16drag
01/23/2008, 05:21 PM
Just got my MSX 160 and I have to admit the SWC pump is killer! Without the restrictor on the input of the pump, water pretty much overflows the skimmate cup instantly. Its currently sitting in a plastic container with some saltwater, vinegar, old skimmate, etc...

Its essentially being broken in.

I did however run into some problems when I first got it. I have to post pics of it later. Don't have time right now.

b16drag
01/23/2008, 05:31 PM
One thing for sure you have to do is change out that DAMN flimsy air line!

rexdenton
01/24/2008, 09:52 AM
Just bought the MSX200 for my 120gallon in wall, after no one on the boards would take my money for used stuff. Currently using a real piece of junk to skim (too embarassing to report). Will report/corrooborate quality of this new arrangement. Reason for the choice? Height restrictions, and cost, and the reputation of the Sicce pump seemed to make this a good value. While I have room for an in line, I also like the efficiency of the space on this unit.
Rex

Jefe12234
01/24/2008, 11:12 AM
Does anyone know how things are going at Marine Solutions? I ordered an MSX 200 a week ago when they were in stock. My order status still says pending and they are out of stock now, so I don't know if they are working on mine, waiting for new stock, or what. I sent an email a couple days ago, but have yet to hear back. It would be nice if they were improving the pumps, but I also really need my skimmer.

luke33
01/24/2008, 11:36 AM
I know rob's been out of town for a week or two and he's the one who usually updates so i'm not really sure whats going on with the pump's. I'll see what i can find out.

Bunkerbean
01/24/2008, 11:41 AM
When I called yesterday they were still waiting on the truck from Winnipeg. Then they could fill all the orders. Just what I was told.

bkelley02
01/24/2008, 11:50 AM
I too have the 200 and am just baffled why I can't get skimmate up to the cup without it almost closed. :( It's working and pulling stuff out now, but not a lot. Maybe 1/2 " in 2-3 days and it's not terribly dark. Like I said though, maybe it's my bioload.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11664067#post11664067 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luke33
Its wide open man. I'll take a few pics tonight and post them of the last couple days if i get a chance. The 200 and 160 are definately alot different with how you set them as the 200 will handle alot more air, but if you set the 160 just right it'll pull this color skimmate no problem, sometimes it takes a couple months to get that black nog.

luke33
01/24/2008, 12:07 PM
Bkelly, thats crazy man! I have mine all the way open and i'm getting the black skimmate. In the last three days it pulled over two cups and a half and thats running side by side with my 200modded recirc which pulled a little bit more, so round 5 cups of this in three days. 23oz glasses

The right side is the msx, left is the recircd octo i modded.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Faceoff21-23-08.gif

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u88/lukewoehler/Faceoff31-23-08.gif

bkelley02
01/24/2008, 12:55 PM
Do you have a lot of fish or something? I have 5 small ones.

I don't have a way to measure the airflow as the tubing is too big for the Dwyer meter I have. I did put 3 layers of Enkamat on and the pump is drawing only 22 watts.

luke33
01/24/2008, 12:59 PM
I have 150lbs of lr and 6 fish in my 125g. My trates are and have been at zero for over a year. I have always just pulled a ton of skimmate, even when i didn't have fish.......not sure where its coming from as i feed two frozen cubes every other day and half a silverside to my bta once a week. I don't have that many corals....idono, i just try to keep the skimmer god s happy ; )

barjam
01/24/2008, 01:04 PM
Would the SWC 160 be a good fit for a 75 gallon LPS/SPS tank or would the updated version of the Octo 150 be better? Which would be quieter? I currently have the Octo 110...

Load:

1 Yellow Tang
2 false percs
2 chromis
1 royal gramma

luke33
01/24/2008, 01:09 PM
I think the swc would be much nicer than the 150 updated version. One pulls 450lph air and the other 900+ Its also using a less noisy and more efficient pump and the design is better.

barjam
01/24/2008, 01:12 PM
I think less noisy is the key for me. I suspect both would be a great upgrade over the NW 110 ;) Thanks for the advice.

bkelley02
01/24/2008, 01:17 PM
Luke,

Do you have the Zipties really tight? Just wondering if I have the Enkemat too compressed.

luke33
01/24/2008, 01:40 PM
Yes, the zip ties are very tight. I do have the mesh around 3 mm or so past the disc of the impeller.

bkelley02
01/24/2008, 02:20 PM
Hmmm... I have enough Enkamat to give it 1 more try. I have the zipties extremely tight as well to keep them as close to the impellar as possible. I do have it trimmed fairly close though so it isn't sticking far past the edges. Worth a shot.

luke33
01/24/2008, 02:22 PM
How far down is your air injector piece?

bkelley02
01/24/2008, 02:36 PM
Well, when I put it on the volute and attach it to the pump, it's barely passed the reducer. Can't tell if it's shifting once on the skimmer. Didn't glue it in place or anything. Could use teflon tape to hold it in place better.

luke33
01/24/2008, 02:38 PM
You only want it in there a few mm at most. It could be restricting your flow.

Bunkerbean
01/24/2008, 02:47 PM
Could you guys post some pictures? It will help when mine shows up here in the next few weeks.

VaderWS6
01/24/2008, 07:06 PM
I readjusted the tube, and I'm getting absolutely awesome skimmate! I'm totally happy with my 160 now! :rollface:

bkelley02
01/24/2008, 07:22 PM
You're lucky. I replaced the Mesh and couldn't get it to run. Replaced the zipties, not even a noise. Totally flat against the bottom of the impeller platform. Just the thickness of the ziptie itself and nada. :( Replaced with Spiderwire, had some noise, but nothing. Had to almost take the volute totally off, and finally it would start with a lot of help of blowing air in the tube. Getting a great bit more bubbles now, but something still must be wrong. Nothing is rubbing on top ( spins easy when not in the pump ) so I can't figure out what's dragging. Maybe something isn't quite right with the impeller? Maybe for some reason it's sitting too low in the pump? Guess I should have just left it alone as it was running fine ( with the wedge pipe almost closed ) and would start on it's own after shut off, but just not producing much skimmate.

flat broke
01/24/2008, 08:39 PM
Can someone with one of these skimmers give me the measurement from the base of the feet to the bottom of the plate where the pump mounts? Basically, how much room is under the reaction chamber?

Thanks,
Chris

saltydragon
01/24/2008, 11:00 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11680632#post11680632 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by VaderWS6
I readjusted the tube, and I'm getting absolutely awesome skimmate! I'm totally happy with my 160 now! :rollface:

pics please!

barjam
01/24/2008, 11:14 PM
So it sounds like maybe this isn't a plug and play skimmer (yet)? Are the newer ones shipping out better in that respect?

bored4long
01/24/2008, 11:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11682616#post11682616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by barjam
So it sounds like maybe this isn't a plug and play skimmer (yet)? Are the newer ones shipping out better in that respect?

These are absolutely not plug and play. I have to send mine back. Just waiting til they get all the bugs worked out. It will push back setting up my tank 4 weeks. I'm positive this skimmer will rock, but if I were you, wait til you know for sure.

bkelley02
01/25/2008, 06:01 AM
I think the skimmer itself is fine, just fine tuning the pump is a bit challenging in this first batch. I know they're working on a solution and I'm sure I'll be more then happy then. My issues may also just be something I'm doing wrong. :(

barjam
01/29/2008, 11:27 PM
Unless I hear different (fixed pumps) I think I am going to go for a Octo 150... probably plenty on my 75 anyhow.

Lagger
01/31/2008, 10:28 AM
So what's the general consensus? Everyone happy with their 160 so far (sans tha pump issue)?

sheepdawg
01/31/2008, 11:24 AM
I'm happy with mine, nothing a little fishing line couldn't take care of :)

VaderWS6
01/31/2008, 01:36 PM
Is my 160 the only one thats plug and play? Still no problems, getting lots of reef coffee. :) I'm going to try growing a plant using the skimmate as food. Would probably build up too much salt though, killing the plant. We'll see.

b16drag
01/31/2008, 01:49 PM
Whats the noise level that you guys are getting with the pump? I'm getting a "HUMM" I can definately hear it if I just open my stand doors.

luke33
01/31/2008, 02:47 PM
My 200 is pretty much dead silent. Vader, i tried the skimmate garden a couple yrs back......it started to kill the plants cuz of the salt. And i was skimming very wet. It also looked pretty gross pouring it on the soil all the time as well. Stunk! But the flies liked it....lol

b16drag
01/31/2008, 02:51 PM
Hm.... Am i doing something wrong? Maybe the mesh is not balanced and needs to be... Its pulling up wet skimmate and doing a decent job. I just want it to be a slightly quieter. Any thoughts?

luke33
01/31/2008, 02:58 PM
I noticed when mine was pulling under 35ish scfh it would be a humm. I wonder if its because its restricted more than it wants to be air pull wise. Thats the only thing i could think of.

b16drag
01/31/2008, 03:08 PM
Yea but when I take off the restrictor and help it by blowing air into it, its like hiroshima! hah ;)

tsouth
01/31/2008, 03:55 PM
Idk mine is completely silent also. I guess dissassemble the pump and make sure it's properly put together. The main part is the red nipple that goes to the end of the shaft. After assembling, test it out in the water and if it works well then reattatch it to the skimmer.

Lagger
01/31/2008, 04:11 PM
Anyone here think the body of the skimmer is too short, hence, not enough dwell time resulting in ultimately wet skimmate, no matter what?

Jayson
01/31/2008, 06:34 PM
To reduce the wet skimmate all you have to do is lower the water level in the skimmer or sump. If you can not do that remove the stand pipe and cut off 2 inches. Thanks