Sump flow and noise

[n2everythg]

I was also hoping someone here could provide some suggestions on how I can improve on my overflow and sump design. All in all the idea works pretty well. but the Flow volume is pretty low and the noise factor is pretty high.

I completed and have running my 54 bowfront with 2 stacked 10 gal aquariums for sumps. Mostly it works ok but I cant seem to get much flow through it and the overflow is pretty noisy. So I was hoping someone could provide some suggestions on mods I can do to improve it.

My overflow is pretty noisy. Sounds like a toilet running all the time. As the tank is in my office and right next to my desk its gonna drive me nuts If I cant get it a bit quieter.
I drilled the tank for (2) 3/4" bulkheads overflow. to this I attached (2) 8" PVC with cut slots. I have cut 2 slots in each for the full 8" length and the slots are approx 1/8" wide.

After the fact... hoping to improve on the overflow I drilled each 90 degree pvc leaving the tank and attached a 3/8" "spout" and hose that you can see hoping to release a bit of air and increase the drainage. I cant tell if it is helping any tho. It is quieter if I plug the 3/8" hole with a tack. bubbles going into the drain seem the same with or without the tacks blocking the 3/8" air holes.
Any ideas or comments on improvements I can make?

The second issue is the flow through the 10 gal......The top 10 gal is going to be the skimmer area and fuge... this drops via durso drain into a LR/return 10 gal....

The return pump is an eheim 1260 but I have it limited to probably pumping only 1/4 of its output back into the tank.

Seems like the limiting factor on the flow is the Durso drain in the top 10 gal aquarium. It has a 1" bulkhead drilled in the bottom of the tank and I increased the drain size to 1 1/4" above the bulkhead. I have fiddled around with drilling holes in the cap and have drilled 4 - 1/16" holes. The flow is steady but not fast enough.

So anyone have any ideas on how I can improve on my sump?

BTW - the crud at the back of the tank is just sand dust from not washing my sand prior to putting it in the tank....oops...

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Thanks for looking... any comments appreciated....
N2

[drillsar]

O the pvc ends I would use like a Filter sock that would eliminate some bubbles, as far as the overflow sounds noisy are you using the sponge? you can try something the call aqua silencer.

Also why do you have glass over? You should take the glass out you will get more light.

http://home.nc.rr.com/stockmanreef/

[jtma508]

N2... I'm no expert as I'm still in the planning stages of my system but I have done a hellacious amount of research and I'll share what I've learned so far. On the back of your bulkhead for your overflow you've got a 90deg elbow with your vent (the black hose) tapped into it. The water turbulence in that fitting as it attempts to breath through the hose will be an issue.

A better approach is to avoid all 90deg fittings in the overflow plumbing. Try fabricating a durso-syle standpipe. Where your 90 is put a sanitary tee (make sure you orient it correctly) for smoother flow and place a short piece of PVC in the top of the tee with a cap on it so it's well above your water line. Drill the cap (start small and go larger 'til it's quiet --- most people say ~1/8 - 1/4). That cap piece allows for a column of air so the plumbing doesn't have to suck as hard for air.

Also, from your pictures I can't tell if you're using an overflow box of any kind. Are you? If not, judging by the depth of your bulkhead, you may be pulling too much water.

[n2everythg]

Hopefully these additional pics will help. I know the original pic of the drain out of the tank was not very good.

Drillsar - "glass' is acrylic on sump and fuge tops for now to keep bubbles from splashing out. nothing in tank right now cept saltwater sand and some cocktail shrimp to start a cycle. soon as I have the flow the way I want it I will get some LR. Fuge has some sand and a hunk of chaeto. eventually I will take the glass off the fuge part only but intend to leave the skimmer section and return covered.

JTMA -
Thanks. No overflow box. tank is drilled at approx 3" below water line. then I have a 90 sweep and then another 90 attaching to the 8" section... that might be some of the problem... too many 90s. then one more 90 outside the glass. I will hit Lowes tonight as see if I can get a couple of street Ts for external and Perhaps find some street sweeps for inside the tank.

Thanks for the comments.

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N2

[n2everythg]

here this will show the overflow better:
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/Fish/54plumb017.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s142/n2everythg/Fish/54plumb016.jpg

[n2everythg]

couldnt find any street Ts at lowes. All they had was regular Ts. I bought a couple thinking there may be enough material there to sort of sand out a sweep.

Also bought a few 45s thinking I could reconfigure all the 90s I have in the tank leading to the bulkhead. Hoping that may help...

Anybody else got any other ideas? or a place to locate a 3/4" street T?
N2

[n2everythg]

EERRRRRRRR! FRUSTRATION at its finest.... Kicking stuff....:mad2: red in face...

I changed out all in the tank 90s with 3 - 45 degree joints each. Hard to get both at proper angle and depth. I also angled the inside of each coupling PVC piece. You know beveled an angle on each so that there were no flat spots between where they joined the 45s. hoping to cut down on turbulence. Anyway. Didnt do much if anything.

I have each valve prob opened 50 percent. one returning to tank and one returning to sump off the return pump. That is how it was to begin with.

Anyway, if I try to open the tank return any more than that it just doesnt work. The overflow starts sucking like a toilet and the drain into the skimmer area starts burping really loud with sporadic random gusts of air bubbles. chugging every so often. Know what I mean? funs fine with some bubbles then all of a sudden sends down a load of em that erupt.

Also the top 10 gal almost overflows so I have some flow issue through the top 10 skimmer tank. I widened the teeth but the durso doesnt seem to drain fast nuf.

Hung it up for the night and shut down the pump. getting frustrated.
the 8" 'overfow' pipes also seem only to suck down water at the closest place to the bulkhead opening. The entire length of the pvc tube doesnt seem to do much. I expected more. Is my design flawed? Should I just go with a couple of screened angled tubes like you always see at the LFS?

Giving up for the night. Hoping someone will have some suggestions in the am.
night
N2

[Playa-1]

So you have two 3/4" drain lines. Are they tied together at some point or do they drain independent of each other?

It sounds as if you have a restriction in you drain system. It also sounds like your having air issues in the drain system.

One thing that jumps out at me is how low the return line is in the display. You will want to be careful with that due to the small volume in your return tank. The issue is easily solved by raising the return line so that it is closer to the water line or adding a couple of syphon break holes at the appropriate spots. You don't want your display to backflow into your return tank and flood your office in the event that the pump is turned off or in case of power failure.

You could also consider losing the hard plumbing for the drain lines and all the 45's and 90's and just go with two independent double braided pvc hoses straight to the skimming tank. I would expect that you should be able to run the 1260 pump in this system without restriction and you should be able to get it nice and quiet.

You could also loose the drain intakes with the horizontal slotted pvc and go to a modified durso style drain intake system. I think it would be more efficient at venting the air before it gets trapped in the drain line which contributes to slow and noisy drain lines.

[n2everythg]

Playa -
The (2) 3/4 inch bulkheads connect together but merge into a 1" drain pipe.

On the return pipes dropping into the tank low down - I have a siphon hole drilled in the return tubes in the tank so that the sump wont overflow. I know it is a small sump system but all that will fit below the stand unfortunately.

On the double braided return lines... that is a good idea. thought about some sort of flex tube myself. Can you get those at your local Home depot or lowes? That might solve quite a bit of the problem. I still have some issue with the durso drain in the top 10 gal skimmer tank that feeds the return 10 gal tank. but maybe if I just lower the height of the durso it would compensate some and the water level in the skimmer tank would drop some.

Off to work on it some more this morning. thanks for your comments. Will prob hit lowes this am and look for some flex pipe and start there.

N2

[Playa-1]

I just set up a system with the 1" flex tubing for the drain and it's working gr8 and very quiet. My wife didn't even realize I had water in it and the pumps were on and she was standing right next to it.
You should be able to find what you need at Home Depot or Lowes.
www.dursostandpipes.com
Read up on Durso and as far as the height of the pipe goes that should only effect the water level in the tank. I believe your issues are more in properly venting the air out of the lines and you could have partial pipe clogging where the joints were glued together. The nice thing about the braided hose on the drains is that you can see whats going on inside of there.

[Reef of Eden]

the best place to find pvc anything are irrigation supply stores.

[n2everythg]

Well I got rid of the 90s outside the tank. I put in (2) independent 3/4" flex lines running to the sump. For better or worse this is how the drain lines outside the tank are going to stay. I had to drain the entire tank and move it away from the wall in order to make the changes. PITA!!!

Prob could have done it without the entire drain but I didnt have much room to work and I wanted another inch between the tank and the wall. It is refilled and I have a polisher running to suck up some of the sand dust. Once it is a bit clearer I will finish filling and turn on the works. hopefully I will get better flow with the independent flex tubes.

Still might have to make some adjustments inside the tank with the drains but that shouldnt be too bad.

Kind of in a rush to get it working correct as I ordered 30 lbs of LR that is due in on Wed pm.

Hope nothin leaks... I'm about fed up.

Let y'all know how it goes.
later,
N2

[n2everythg]

OK. I need some help here. I have LR coming in 2 days and still cant get more than what seems like a trickle through my sump.

I changed the exit lines to (2) independent 3/4" lines running to sump. That seems to work fine.

However, I cant get the drains inside the tank working very well.

I put on the 2 - 90s with the 8" PVC. - This caused very restricted flow and when I try to turn up the flow I get horrible sucking noises and bursts of air chugging that causes my skimmer chamber to erupt. No luck on this one.

I tried the multiple 45s - this helped some but still had slow flow and when I turned up the flow got the sucking and chugging and eruptions in the skimmer.

I took off the 8" slotted pvc straight sticks and went to just a 90 on the tank wall. Got HUGE sucking noise and so much flow that the top 10 gal overflowed some. like a siphon was created and the 1" durso with estimated 600 g/hr flow couldnt handle it. So I angled a 45 out of the back of the tank at a bit of an angle and slowed down the flow. still got sucking noises but no overflow.

I cant just go with a straight overflow strainer sticking out of the wall of the tank as I drilled to low for that. was thinking about using a 45 to angle a bit. slow the flow some hoping to avoid sucking and stick a strainer on.

Think this will work?

N2

[n2everythg]

The tank is running again after being reconfigured 3 times. probably only 60% to the tank and 40% to drain. But she is running quiet and not sucking and burping. I think with a little more tweeking I can get at least 75% flow thru the tank and sump.

Actually I can hit 75% now but it is kinda sketchy. 60% or so is steady and safe.

I ended up putting T fittings outside the tank at the bulkhead with an air cap with 2 - 1/16" holes drilled in them. I sanded down the inside lower drain section of each T and the pipe that meets the T for almost a street sweep or a wye. Each of my 3/4 drain lines is still independent. and I ran hard PVC down for maybe 8" then went to flex line to the skimmer chamber.

I'm gonna fool some more with the drain catches inside the tank but not any more tonight.

Thanks. and Later,
N2

[Playa-1]

It sounds like your getting close to where you need to be.
I personally would not restict the drain lines in any way.
Nice and quiet is a good thing
:)