Help With Overflow!!!

[kokain00]

Hey guys,

We have come across a problem, we just added a sump to our existing display tank.

Since our overflow is so short we had to raise the water level in the display tank for the water to be accessible to it. Now the water is leaking out of the tank, Its traveling under the black plastice at the top of the tank and coming out the other side....

2 methods I see to fixing this... lower the water level for 24hrs while we caulk the inside (between the plastic molding and the glass) or start cutting up the overflow...

Its a CPR50 overflow 300GPH, What are these made of? (the whole box is black in color) Acrylic??? can I use a dremel tool to cut slots into the front of it to totally lower the water volume in the display tank???

Thanks!!!

[cpl40475]

you should be able to. Imnot really familiar with the CPR overflow but is it a 2 piece overflow that uses a nylon screw to hold them together? If it is try lowering the one inside your tank lower. It sounds to me that the overflow is to high in the tank

[werkkrew]

The CPR overflow should have some adjustment screws on it to adjust the height.

I suggest adjusting so that the water level is just above the black trim so that the tank looks full from the front, but there should still be at least a half an inch or more room before the tank itself overflows.

I dont see how adding a sump affects it, or what you mean by "our overflow is too short".

[kokain00]

well you are correct stating that the overflow is adjustable (via 2 screws) but the problem is that the screw are all the way out, its sitting as low as it possibly can

[allenpantino]

on most overflow's there is a plastic screw that you can ajust to move it accordingly can you send a picture cuz "our overflow is too short". doesnt make sence

[mg426]

Something here just aint sounding all together right. Any chance you could post a picture ???

[kokain00]

sorry I should have posted a pic right away, I believe this pic is the new version, but the design is the exact same, except ours is totally black.

Basically in the front where the water enters the overflow there are not any teeth like some overflows, it is just straight.

the overflow is sitting right on our tank wall, which leaves us no room for adjustment, unless we adjust it up(but we'd also have to raise the water level).

My first thought was to cut teeth into it, and that would allow us to lower the water level, but whatever its made of looks liek it will crack fairly easy.

[osprey3883]

Hello,
I think a picture of the device you bought on your tank was what they had in mind...

Matt

[werkkrew]

Maybe you are confused about how an overflow works?

If its adjusted fully down then it should be a solid 1.5" into your tank.

The water merely "overflows" into it, it should be pretty much at the exact high at which you want your water line to be.

If it can flow more then your return pump flows, the rest should be taken care of by gravity.

Im still really confused.

[kokain00]

I do understand how the overflow works, I guess i'm just not explaining it right....tell me if this makes sense or not haha

The water in the display tank is to high right now causing drips of water to come over the edge. The overflow is as low as it can possibly sit right now, water levels just flowing into the overflow...

heres some pics, I have more just downloading them to photobucket right now.

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/kokain00/?action=view&current=Tank6weeks058.jpg

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/kokain00/?action=view&current=Tank6weeks055.jpg

[werkkrew]

Okay.

Try to adjust the center screw on the bottom of the overflow. It looks like you can get a little more depth out of it if you tilt the box forward a bit.

Other then that, yeah, it looks like you have it as deep into the tank as you can possibly have it.

[kokain00]

this is where it is dripping from...

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/kokain00/?action=view&current=Tank6weeks069.jpg

http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/gg165/kokain00/?action=view&current=Tank6weeks053.jpg

[kokain00]

there is no center screw on there, but I did just put folded up cardboard between it and the glass to lean it forward.

It did go down a bit but not enough for it to stop leaking!
I don't know what to do, it just keeps overflowing, I lost probably a half gallon over last night!

[werkkrew]

It doesnt look like your water level is too high.

I guess your first inclination was right - Take about 3-5 gal out of the tank, leave your powerheads on for circulation, get some silicone aquarium sealant (without mold inhibitors) and try to re-seal the trim.

You might try to actually carefully take all the top trim off and re-seal it properly instead of just squeezing it into the edge of the leaky area. Be careful not to break any of the plastic though.

I have never tried to take the plastic trim off but I imagine if you are careful and carefully use a razor to cut off all the old silicone you can get a nice clean seal out of it.

Let it cure for 24 hours before you top the tank back off.

[kokain00]

I have just thought of a probably cause, perhaps my return is pumping to much water for the overflow, but I don't see how its possible...

The overflow is rated at 300GPH, the return pump is a pondmaster 500(500GPH) but theres 5 feet head give or take a few inches, the pondmaster is the same as the mag 5 I think. and at 5 feet head it should be returning 250GPH. I don't get why the sump level keeps lowering, and the display leaking

[kokain00]

now does the trim hold any reinforcement to the glass?
or is it just for show?

[werkkrew]

Well, its easy to tell.

There are two easy signs in my limited experience:

1 - The water level is high above the overflow input (1/4" - 1/2")
2 - The overflow makes a lot of gurgling or toilet flushing noises.

Id guess you are damn close to your overflows max flow rate, and they only really recommend 3-5x flow through the sump, the rest of your flow should come from powerheads so your return pump sounds pretty over rated.

How big is your display / sump?

If you display is 50gallons or larger, get a bigger overflow, if its smaller, get a smaller pump.

But then again, thats only going to fix it if indeed you are showing symptons of too much flow as I mentioned above.

Note: Please take all my advice with a grain of salt, I'm a total newbie too.

[werkkrew]

I just looked at your photos again, I would venture to guess your Overflow box is way too small.

Get the 600GPH rated CPR if you can still exchange where you bought it from, or look into the highly recommended lifereef boxes (www.lifereef.com).

I have a CPR 600GPH box on my 30gallon tank, but a lot of folks around here will tell you to steer clear of CPR.

[kokain00]

I don't understand how it can be to small though, its 300 GPH and the pump should be pumping around 250GPH, so i'm getting around 4-4.5 full turnovers an hour. what size pump do u have on your 30 werk???

[werkkrew]

I started out with a Rio 12HF which is rated at almost 600GPH at 4' head, I quickly swapped this out to a QuietOne 1200 which is rated at about 175GPH at a 4' head.

I got rid of the rio first because it was way too big, and second because I read a lot of bad things bout Rio pumps.

With the rio, which was rated at almost the same flow as my overflow, I had constant gurgling noises, periodic toilet flushing sounds, lots of microbubbles in my sump, and the water level in the display was about a half inch above the overflow inlet.

With the QuietOne, my overflow is dead silent and the water level matches exactly the level of my overflow inlet.

It looks like your tank is fairly large, Its not an issue of flow at that point in why I recommend the larger overflow box, its two things really.

The bigger overflow box is a lot wider, more surface area, which is better; and, it most likely pertrudes a lot deeper into the tank (I'm not sure on this one) giving you the ability to drop your water line a bit more.

[kokain00]

I think i'm gonna run out and pick up some 90's to try and slo the flow of the return down for now at least, I bought the overflow second hand for 50 bucks, so I can't return it

[kokain00]

if I do add say 3-4 90's and maybe another return pipe coming up on the other side of the tank, would this slow the flow down quite a bit?

[tmz]

Hello, Is there any water draining out? This type of overflow referred to as continuous siphon is notorius for breaking the siphon.After months of frustration and several floodsI fixed the three I had by putting them in a round container by the road and replacing them with a U tube type overflows.

[werkkrew]

While TMZ is right about the possibility of overflowing due to a loss of siphon, I don't think the type of overflow you are using is the problem at all.

Dont add a bunch of 90's to the return, you cant really control flow that way...you can restrict it a bit, but not control it.

If anything, add a ball valve - but that might decrease the life of your pump.

[tmz]

If you wan't to reduce flow from your pump, you can add a tee to the return with a pipe and valve flowing directly back to the sump from the pump and one to the tank. When you open this valve some water will flow to the sump reducing the flow to the tank, By turning this valve you can control flow to the display wihtout putting back pressure on your pump.

The overflow you have may work better ,if not reliably in my experience, with an aqualifter pump attached to the airline with the check valve protruding from it. This will remove air from the siphon area. To start your siphon you need to draw air through this line either by sucking on it like a strw or using a vacuum pump such as the one noted.

Good Luck

[kokain00]

thanks guys, I ended up adding 2 90's, which slowed it down a bit, but hardly any, I'm thinking of adding another return pipe to the display tank, so there would be a return on each side.

This will slow the flow down a bit, and stop the one return from shooting water up under the trim.

I think we will get an aqualifter also just incase haha

Thanks for all ur help!!

[crazywesc]

I would do what TMZ mentioned. Put a ball valve on your return pump. And just tee off back to your sump. You can fine tune your pump this way.

[marioensf]

You can always get an over-rated overflow (GPH) for instance if the overflow box is rated at 600GPH and your pump does 300, it will only draw and pump back @ 300GPH.
by looking at the pic of the overflow box, Is it sitting fully on the tank edge?
Seems like the screws can be lifting it a little too much. T and ball allow you to control the flow, i have a MAG 9.5 on a 46BF first it was all snow due to the high flow rate, it would draw most of the sump water before being returned by the overflow box back to the sump (my OF Box is a 600 GPH) I posted for help right here and did the ball valve, flow is great even with such a big pump.
I'm working with the PVC plumbing to fully use the MAG's flow setting two returns one on each corner and feed a Calcium reactor and a Phosban Reactor at the same time.