Tap Water for Reef Tank

[72884]

I got this friend that works at St. Paul, MN Como Zoo and he swear his reef tank (15g + 20g sump) has been doing very great (9+ months) using tap water with the 20g sump full of cheato to absorb all the impurities. The zoo's marine biologist told him that it's okay to use tap water as long as there is something to absorb all the impurities and they use tap water for all their water animal tanks. I argue with him to take a look at our water quality (click link below) but he just keeps on saying to me he trusts the marine biologist more than my smarta55. His tank no doubt looks okay too but I'm uncertain if he's lying about relying only on cheato and not using tons of other stuff to filter out the impurities. I've seen him topoff with tapwater and do water changes with tap water.
http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/yourwater/system.php?pwsid=MN1620026
I refuse to accept that cheato can absorb all those impurities.
I told him the marine biologist is a dumba55 for recommending tapwater and he called me a ignorant smarta55.

What is your input on this topic.....????

[AquaReeferMan]

Ill start off by giving you the same answer that you are going to get from 95% of the members on here. You are right, and they are wrong. Filtered water is the only way to go. Cheato will only absorb nitrates and phosphates. There are tons of things still left in the water. Nine months, by far, is at the low end on the time frame to say its a successful tank . Also what for corals does he have. Most likely simple and easy softies that would survive a nuclear blast.

[72884]

He has sps, zoa, monti, maxima clam, inverts, a few fish and inverts. He's using a sunpod and he sure likes to diss my T5 HO setup saying it isn't sufficent and I need MH to keep my crocea clam and sps alive. I say BLAH BLAH BLAH my tank has been doing fine for 2 years. I also forgot he was preached by the marine biologist that skimmers do more harm than good and he's constantly up on my case for using a skimmer (ER RS-80). We always have a big arguement about this stuff and one of us always just ends up changing the subject.

[stevelkaneval]

his tank will crash sooner than later( get it haha ). only water evaps and leavs all the solids behind. keep toping off or doing wc with tap and you are playing with a nuclear weapon, esp with a clam and sps. and with the light, it just depends how far away the corals are from the light. peaple say that you cant grow sps with pc but i do and it does great.

[IceWish]

have you ever opened your RO filter after 6 months? ...my filters are usually filled with blackish brown sludge from the pipes, it looks like melted copper ......this is what he has in his tank.......good luck with trying to use cheato to remove it...

[eskymick]

For 25 years, I've used ONLY tap water .. both to mix saltwater and for top-off. I've NEVER experienced any ill effects. I only treat the large, water change salt mixes with a dechlorinator ... I don't bother doing so with the top-off water.

My interests have evolved from FO to a well-stocked SPS reef. I have great color and growth and have never had nuisance algae. I do skim and run carbon and Phosban ... and I have a small chaeto fuge, as well.

Granted, some locales have terrible tap-water. One should review the annual water quality report for your area before using it.

Some people worry to much ....

[jimmyPx]

You know that over the years I have found that the #1 cause of success or failure in reefkeeping is the WATER !!!

I guess it is common sense, but all of the equipment in the world means nothing if your water parameters are off. If they are, you will get algae problems, coral deaths (from copper from the Tap water), alkalinity problems, etc.

My advice is for a happy and successful reefkeeping experience, only use a good RO/DI unit for water changes and topoff as well as a good Salt mix and test and make sure that your water parameters are right.

[LobsterOfJustice]

It depends on the tap. Back in Towson MD (where I used to live) most people use tap, including an LFS with the best display I have ever seen and many club members with 300+ gallon sps reefs. The problem with making a blanket statement about tap water is that it is different in every county of every state of the country. I dont find it hard at all to believe that your friend is running a successful reef with tap water.

[Canadian]

Maybe I'm irritable today, but from reading several of the threads on the first page of the Reef Discussion forum I was starting to think today was "Stupid Response Day' - Every stupid response gets you a free Aussie Acan colony'"

The TDS of my tap water here in Vancouver, BC, Canada is 11-14. In other municipalities within Vancouver and Victoria tap water TDS is as low as 5-7.

Don't presume to know all the circumstances/details and then share your perpetuated assumptions without first acquiring sufficient information on which to base your advice.

My tap water has lower TDS than many people get after filtration of dirty well water. If I posted that I was using tap water without posting my TDS would everyone jump on me and tell me I'm crazy? The answer unfortunately is yes. If I posted that all I do is filter my water through an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap Water Filter would people tell me I'm wasting my money and I should only use RO/DI? Yup again. Obviously I could quite readily slap a Tap Water Filter on my faucet and get water as clean as any RO/DI unit without exhausting the resin any faster than many people exhaust their DI after filtering through RO. The water coming from my tap has a lower TDS than what many people get after filtering through their RO (before it gets to their DI).

The point: Ask a few questions before jumping to conclusions and spewing presumed "truisms".

With all that said, despite my relatively clean tap water, I still run RO/DI because I'm a lemming and incapable of critically thinking ;)

[luke33]

Exactly, its different everywhere. And when you do use tap water you need to check your tds weekly as it changes throughout the year. In Indy up here the tds is round 300-400.......

[luke33]

On one last note, your friend doesn't sound like the sharpest tool in the shed either......nor does his biologist friend.

[Ebisan]

I'd rather rely on my own filters than the municipalities which can change throughout the year. The water quality from my last water district was ok. They sent out monthly notices describing the water quality and it did fluctuate but still pretty good compared to other districts.

[phenom5]

Here's what I know (which isn't very much...or so I've been told)

Before getting my RO unit (primarily used RO from a coin-op dispenser, occassionaly used tap) I had constant algae problems...red & green hair, red & green bubble, dinos, all sorts. Since getting my RO unit, no problems with algae at all.

My tap reads at 160-200 for TDS.

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11621349#post11621349 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canadian
Maybe I'm irritable today, but from reading several of the threads on the first page of the Reef Discussion forum I was starting to think today was "Stupid Response Day' - Every stupid response gets you a free Aussie Acan colony'"

The TDS of my tap water here in Vancouver, BC, Canada is 11-14. In other municipalities within Vancouver and Victoria tap water TDS is as low as 5-7.

Don't presume to know all the circumstances/details and then share your perpetuated assumptions without first acquiring sufficient information on which to base your advice.

My tap water has lower TDS than many people get after filtration of dirty well water. If I posted that I was using tap water without posting my TDS would everyone jump on me and tell me I'm crazy? The answer unfortunately is yes. If I posted that all I do is filter my water through an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Tap Water Filter would people tell me I'm wasting my money and I should only use RO/DI? Yup again. Obviously I could quite readily slap a Tap Water Filter on my faucet and get water as clean as any RO/DI unit without exhausting the resin any faster than many people exhaust their DI after filtering through RO. The water coming from my tap has a lower TDS than what many people get after filtering through their RO (before it gets to their DI).

The point: Ask a few questions before jumping to conclusions and spewing presumed "truisms".

With all that said, despite my relatively clean tap water, I still run RO/DI because I'm a lemming and incapable of critically thinking ;)


I agree 100%. I am also in Vancouver and I test the TDS of my tap water all the time. Two days ago it was 9. After running it through RO/DI, it was 0. I have no problem and do use the tap water here in the city if I have no RO water made and need top off quick. I used to only use tap water and don't really see a difference. The highest TDS I have ever tested here was around 40...after a huge storm a few years ago. Otherwise, its around 11 most of the time.

So it really does depend on location...

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11621750#post11621750 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phenom5
Here's what I know (which isn't very much...or so I've been told)

Before getting my RO unit (primarily used RO from a coin-op dispenser, occassionaly used tap) I had constant algae problems...red & green hair, red & green bubble, dinos, all sorts. Since getting my RO unit, no problems with algae at all.

My tap reads at 160-200 for TDS.

Yes, heres a case that I would always use RO/DI no matter what...Wow, 160-200! Im so use to getting 11 or 12 from my tap water :)

[Akronviper]

I get from 400 hundred to 600 from tap water.

What do you canadians do to that water? Do you get water from desalination plants, wells, Columbia River?
WoW thats amazing.

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11622648#post11622648 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Akronviper
I get from 400 hundred to 600 from tap water.

What do you canadians do to that water? Do you get water from desalination plants, wells, Columbia River?
WoW thats amazing.

Whoa! 400-600!!! Yeah I guess the more I read, the luckier I feel. I have no idea what we do differently with our water but I do know that out east of here in other parts of Canada the tapwater in not nearly as good. Its more of a Vancouver, west coast thing.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, TDS is not a suitable way to asses whether there is too much copper in the water. Even DI water sent into your pipes might get too much copper, and the TDS would still be very low.

While some folks may find tap water acceptable, others will not. Even neighbors may have totally different levels.

This is a quote from the Vancouver water supply company that folks above are claiming provides such good water:

http://www.gvrd.bc.ca/water/pdfs/QualityControlAnnualWaterReport2006-Volume1.pdf



"There are differences between the raw and treated water quality in the GVWD
transmission system. These differences are mostly attributable to the chlorination of raw
water with gaseous chlorine. When gaseous chlorine (in cylinders of pressurized liquid
chlorine) is added to water, it quickly hydrolyzes to form hypochlorous acid, hydrogen
and chloride ions. This reaction results in a drop in pH and alkalinity with subsequent
increase in chloride level of water. These changes increase the corrosiveness of an
already corrosive water (due to natural low pH, low alkalinity and high dissolved oxygen).
If sodium hypochlorite (bleach) is used as the source of chlorine for disinfection, there is
no drop in pH because sodium hypochlorite is alkaline (there is actually a slight increase
20
in pH). As shown in the water quality studies related to the Drinking Water Treatment
Program, it is not uncommon to see elevated levels of copper at the tap, and to a lesser
extent lead, both of which leach from household plumbing. The leaching problem is
exacerbated in hot water systems, especially recirculating hot water systems in large
buildings where green staining and early piping failures appear to be more significant."

[zotzer]

When you get to be my age darlin, you will care less.

His tank is his tank to do with what he wishes. If he is happy with it, so be it.

Your tank is yours to manage as you see fit. If you are happy with it, so be it.

Ahhh, what a curse that testosterone stuff must be!! :)
Tracy

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Not sure what post you are responding to, but I see now it probably isn't mine as we posted simultaneously. If it was, then I invite you to hang around the chemistry forum and try to help clean up the many disaster cases that show up there from following suboptimal practices.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Something else I would like to point out about TDS which Randy was kind of hinting at - TDS just measures total dissolved solids, it doesnt care what those solids are. If they are calcium, you're probably okay. If they are copper, not so much :) Even 2 PPM could be terrible depending on what it is, but probably not.

[zotzer]

I appreciate where you are coming from, Randy.

FWIW, his friend doesn't seem to be asking for help. They are in a debate about it and apparently calling each other nasty names. Not worth it.

Good husbandry is important. I care about my animals, and I like having a tank I can enjoy. For me, that means no shortcuts, and using filtered ro/di water and a skimmer.

I recently had to use some treated tap water to top off for three days when my car was in the shop longer than expected, and I had run out of ro/di. A week later....diatoms. No whining, or complaining, or quick-fix requests. I had already returned to proper husbandry, but knew just where the outbreak had come from. Two days later, all was well. I'd never recommend tap as a normal regimen, and was fully prepared to deal with the consequences of three days worth.

If someone is determined to use tap water and no skimmer and has the apparent backing of a marine biologist to boost his opinion, I'm not sure it's worth the headache of arguing him out of it....that's what I was trying to say. :) Life is too short!!!

If he (the friend) was looking for an opinion, I'd tell him to use RO/DI and a skimmer, but it doesn't sound like he is. LOL

Tracy

[zotzer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11624617#post11624617 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
Not sure what post you are responding to, but I see now it probably isn't mine as we posted simultaneously. If it was, then I invite you to hang around the chemistry forum and try to help clean up the many disaster cases that show up there from following suboptimal practices.

Oh!!!! No, hon. I was just responding to the original post on this thread! :)

I think the chemistry forum would make my head spin!
Tracy

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:lol:

No problem.

For those thinking of using tap water, here's an article detailing my concerns, along with measures from many locals showing specific problems:

Tap Water in Reef Aquaria
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm

That said, some folks do have fine tanks using tap water, so I wouldn't doubt anyone who claims to have one. They are just the lucky ones. :)

[TellyFish]

Chicago tap (water from Lake Michigan) seems to be OK for use. I have been running a 90gal for 2 years using only tap water.

Although my tap water is obviously good enough to support my reef life, it is a source of unknown input into my tank and the scientist in me would love to eliminate it.

[jawfish1]

I think the real point to be made here is that it's certainly possible to use tap water for a reef tank, but it's not the best solution.

It should be advised that for "proper" reefkeeping, one should only use filtered water. What one "actually" uses, is another matter...

Also, I wouldn't worry to much about trying to convince your friend on what is right / wrong... sounds like it would just fall on deaf ears anyway. Don't waste your time. You clearly have the right idea and know what's the best way to manage your tank, so don't worry about those who refuse to listen to common sense.

cheers!

[Paul B]

I used tap water in my tank for the first 20 years with no problems, then my town put zinc orthophosphate in the water which killed all of my corals. I put tap water in again and a few years later they did it again and I now use RO/DI. Tap water may be fine in many places but it may not always be so.
Paul

[IHOP]

Not worth the risks.

[tkeracer619]

After seeing one RO prefilter you will think twice about drinking tap. After seeing one RO prefilter I will never put tap into a fish tank.

[McTeague]

The term "tap water" is too generic to even bother with. Even quantifying it by saying "tap water from (insert water filtration plant here)" is not good enough because the quality will still vary from day to day.

You what does not vary? The water coming from a properly maintained personal filtration system...

[dendro982]

It's more Ferrari or Honda question, beer or connoisseur wine. :D
From my Honda it seems to me, that right or wrong - it wouldn't get me Ferrari anyway. Still using tap water. No flames!

[Akronviper]

If you seen what a water main looks like on the inside after a few years you would wonder why you even drink it. There is to many variables in municipal water filtration to risk thousands of dollars of corals. People dont trust heaters with out a controller or other failsafe, RO/DI is just a fail safe for your water.

[stuckinstl]

the one nice thing about st. louis is that it has the cleanest tap water in the country (at least it did last year)

Here's our profile from the website posted earlier

http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/yourwater/system.php?pwsid=MO6010715

It's got almost nothing in it compared to where you're living.

I use tap water for top off. No problems with sps/clams.

[72884]

All you folks that say your tap in your area is VERY good what is your TDS reading from tap?

My tap (St. Paul, MN USA) reads 130ppm and I've setup a 10g once just to see how bad it was and within two weeks with MH bulb on 9hrs each day the tank was fully fuzzy green and it was empty too. (NO rocks, NO sand, JUST BB with a powerhead and MH bulb over it.)

[AZDesertRat]

Don't be misled by articles like this.
http://www.stlwater.com/bestwater.php
Just because water tastes good does not in any way mean it is good for a reef system, probably the opposite is true. Oftentimes good tasting water has a pretty high mineral content which may not be the best for your tank.

Something else you need to know is Consumer Confidence Reports or the water quality reports required by law to be published annually can be misleading. The reports only contain the contaminants that were tested for in that calendar year, they normally do not lisy contaminants not tested for at that time. Not all contaminants are tested for on a reqular basis. Some things only get tested every 3 or 4 years and others may never be tested for again if they were not detected in the very first year the source started.

Things change and water changes. For the life of me, I cannot figure out why people don't get that? I am a water treatment plant and distribution system operator and supervisor by profession and am proud of what i do and have done for almost 34 years now. I drink tap water almost everywhere I go in the States but that does not mean I will put it in my aquariums or feed it to my pets.

[RumLad]

I sometimes think that the incessant insistence on filtering everything in todays society has lead to increases in numerous diseases within our population (asthma for example). The body needs minerals and such to properely function and fight off disease.
That said, I use filtered water in my tank, but the whole family, dog included, drinks water straight from the fridge door.

[72884]

I drink RO water and only RO water. Minerals you can get so easily from the food you eat and the minerals in tap water or mineral water is nothing compared to the amount of minerals you get from eating. Unless you eat dehydrated food which I think not....LOL... even then there is more minerals in that dehydrated food than the mineral water can provide. Heck, a bag of ramen has more minerals than the tap water used to rehydrate it.

[dustybuddy]

What RO unit do you guys use? I'm definitely thinking of buying one now.

[stuckinstl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11678658#post11678658 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
I drink tap water almost everywhere I go in the States but that does not mean I will put it in my aquariums or feed it to my pets.

No offense to anyone out there, but for me it's a moral issue that my pets don't deserve better things than what I get lol.

[kstallbe]

New York City water (Queens) ~35 TDS.

And the importance of water quality for fishes, etc., I think is made clear to me when I think that if I was a fish and my lungs were gills, it would probably feel awful to have them exposed to bad water!

[AZDesertRat]

The TDs of NYC water is pretty low but the TSS or suspended solids is one of the highest in the country. The sediment loading is quite high. This is one reason why filter cartridge manufacturers use that vicinity as a beta test area for product testing and development.

[kstallbe]

Interesting DesertRat. Now come the questions: what is TSS, what does it measure, how is it measured, what effect does it have on reef keeping? Does it have a taste?

Although I use RO/DI water you've piqued my curiosity!

[AZDesertRat]

Suspended solids, basically dirt. They can measure it by putting a measured amount of liquid on a filter paper, drying it out in an oven and weighing the difference in the final weight of the paper from the original weight. NYC is very unique in that due to the way they protect their watersheds and impoundments they are able to deliver water through their system of tunnels and pipes without any major treatment other than disinfection. In todays world this would not be possible by it was grandfathered in in their case since the physical size, cost of and just finding the land for surface water treatment plants would be prohibitive.
In the west we allow our surface water lakes and inpoundments to be used by power boats, personal water craft, fisherman, water skiers, canyon rafters etc so any number of pollutants can be introduced. In the NYC area impoundments are fenced and protected to protect them. They may not have the pollutants we see but a lake is a lake and you still have sediment and silt, especially following storms and runoff events. Nothing major but it can get a little chewy! I guess our Phoenix TDS of 800-1000 is just as chewy when you think about it. We don't have suspended solids but we do have high dissolved solids.

[kstallbe]

Thats super interesting. Thanks for the info. Now I know that the thing we called sumps growing up should really be called impoundments.

[Paul B]

Also NYC water is still delivered in cobble stone lined tunnels that are over 100 years old. There isn't much left to leach out of those tunnels.
As a matter of fact, the NYC water tunnels were the longest tunnels in the world until they tunneled under the English Channel.