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View Full Version : Cyano question disguised as a chemistry question


OwenInAZ
01/23/2008, 02:01 PM
Hey folks,

I have a 2.5 gallon nano that has been up for around 5 months. It was set up with live sand and live rock from my father-in-law's 90 gallon, so it was more or less cycled from the get go.

I have a fairly good bioload in it -- soft corals comprised of zoa's palys and mushrooms. I have several hermit crabs and snails, and one red stripe goby.

The lighting is a coralife 18W 2x 50/50 actinic/daylight, which runs 10-11 hours each night. There is no filter 'fuge or skimmer, water movement is achieved through a Rio 600(?) and a Koralia Nano marginally opposing each other to get turbulence instead of laminar flow.

I feed every few days for the palys and fish -- home-made food (blenderized raw squid, clams, oysters, whitefish, shrimp and nori) -- a very small amount to avoid overloading the system.

The water parameters look good, according to my test strips:
0 Nitrate
0 Nitrite
Alk somewhere between 180-300, I'm guessing on the higher end
pH ~7.8

This brings me to my question:

I'm having an outbreak of cyanobacteria. I bought the koralia nano to try and improve water movement in the worst affected area, a dead spot in a corner. It's been in there a few days, and the problem seems to be getting better in that particular area. However, I can't practically blast every surface with water flow. I thought I'd read somewhere that at pH>~8.0 cyano is inhibited. My suspicion is that my low pH is caused by increased CO2 concentrations in my house during the winter, which in turn lead to increased carbonic acid in the water.

Has anyone else heard the bit about cyano being inhibited by higher pH? Does anyone have a suggestion on how to dose a tank that small to raise pH? I work routinely with small volumes (I'm a microbiology grad student), so I'm comforable with small doses.

Sorry for the really long post, thanks in advance!

bertoni
01/24/2008, 06:24 PM
That tank is very small. I suspect the amount of food added is beyond the capacity of the filtration to export. I haven't noticed that cyanobacteria has a problem with pH in the range 8.2-8.6, unfortunately.

Low pH in the winter is very common, for the reason you stated. A lime drip might help, if the tank can tolerate it. The alkalinity might be too high already, which is common if pH buffers are being added.

reefkeeper2
01/24/2008, 06:57 PM
I don't think the cyano is reacting to the pH, but rather to the concentration of CO2 in the water. Cyanobacteria metabolize CO2 and an available carbon source producing oxygen as waste. We tend to concentrate on the other nutients to control the cyano. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to lower the CO2 concentrations in my calcium reactor effluent before it enters my aquarium in an effort to lower CO2 in the tank.

bertoni
01/24/2008, 07:10 PM
I'm not sure that cyanobacteria is ever carbon-dioxide-limited in our systems. Algal cultures can drive the pH of the culture water up to the 10 or 11 range and still grow quite well.

reefkeeper2
01/24/2008, 07:25 PM
CO2 concentration is the primary limiting factor for all photosynthesis if I remember my old plant physiology course correctly. It was a long time ago though.:D

OwenInAZ
01/25/2008, 07:58 AM
Cool, thanks for the input. I have purposefully tried to keep feedings small and somewhat infrequent to avoid handing out nutrients to everything in there. I'm not dosing anything currently, since I do a 1 gallon water change weekly for nutrient/waste export and goodies replenishment. The corals i have in there are doing well and multiplying, so I think the water quality is good -- it's just the stupid cyano :)

I have been thinking some about modding one of those little HOB filters into a small refugium, maybe I could throw an airstone in there to try and kick CO2 out of the water, in addition to nutrient export.

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/25/2008, 08:28 AM
CO2 concentration is the primary limiting factor for all photosynthesis if I remember my old plant physiology course correctly. It was a long time ago though.

I discuss that issue with respect to photosynthesis in reef tanks in this linked article. Free carbon dioxide is not always what marine organisms use. They also can utilize bicarbonate, so raising the pH may help, or may not. :D:

Photosynthesis and the Reef Aquarium Part I: Carbon Sources
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-10/rhf/index.php


That said, depending on many other factors, photosynthesis may not be the limiting factor for growth for any particular species, especially those that can metabolize organics.

OwenInAZ
01/25/2008, 10:03 AM
Thanks Randy, although I opened up your article and had flashbacks to biochem, organic and inorganic chem all at once. I think I need more coffee for this ;)

I guess I'm not concerned about CO2 concentrations in terms of limiting photosynthesis. I need my zoanthelle to photosynthesize, and the cyano is going to be photosynthetic no matter what. I wonder what can be done to ablate (what I assme are) high concentrations of CO2 in the water with a correspondingly depressed pH. On the local page people have suggested dosing kalk, but without a known molar concentration to start with I'm nervous about using that in such a small system. If I know the starting concentration, I can do C1V1 in my sleep to figure out the volume needed to adjust the pH.

Randy Holmes-Farley
01/25/2008, 10:08 AM
Limewater (kalkwasser) is by far the most effective way to raise pH, short of opening windows in the home. The exact dose is not critical, and you can adjust as you go along. Adding 0.5-2% of the tank volume in limewater each day is a reasonable dose.

This has more:

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm