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View Full Version : using instant ocean salt - the end of the LPS ???


K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 03:11 PM
although have been using tropic marin pro
and in lite of recent threads questioning the worth of this salt compared to the price...

was given a full bucket of instand ocean salt by a relative
(xmas) and used it in the last water change...

since this last water change
have lost couple branches of a very healthy hammer and also one branch of a frogspawn...

actually when doing the water change
was removing a pistol from display and had to about rearrange atleast 100pounds of LR (out of 200#)... which when all put back the euphylia were just placed on the bottom of the dsb for few days until i noticed some of them were dying off.

just noticed today
the lobophylia is not looking good at all... am wondering if it may have been perhaps 1 of 3 things

1.
introducing new salt that may be less then ideal
or may not have a good mix to begin with - atleast for reef

2.
all the rearranging of LR and perhaps disturbing of the sandbed in removing the pistol

3.
or ???



thoughts/ideas on this salt or otherwise problems w/ these LPS corals ???

(tank has been well established - over 200# LR, 50gal display fuge, 210gal system)

regards

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 03:11 PM
double post

tami1024
01/30/2008, 03:19 PM
I have a 75 and a 29 and I have always used Instant Ocean. Could be because of the fact that you changed brands. Instant Ocean is'nt what I would consider the best from the research that I have done but I have never had a prob with it. I was actually considering changing brands but after what you just went through with your tank. I may have to rethink it. Good luck and I hope all gets back to normal.

packer
01/30/2008, 03:26 PM
My take is both reasons. Any time you mess with the tank in volume, ie the LR disturbance, it can cause situations with stability. Also I have been told by quite a few people to stick with one brand of salt, and not bounce around between them with water changes.

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 03:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11724529#post11724529 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tami1024
I have a 75 and a 29 and I have always used Instant Ocean. Could be because of the fact that you changed brands. Instant Ocean is'nt what I would consider the best from the research that I have done but I have never had a prob with it. I was actually considering changing brands but after what you just went through with your tank. I may have to rethink it. Good luck and I hope all gets back to normal.


hi Tami
thanks for the reply - what type of corals do you keep?

thinking i might go and buy some tropic marin pro like i used before and perhaps mix it w/ this instant ocean until its gone.

regards

packer
01/30/2008, 03:37 PM
I dont know if I would mix it either. Might trade it with someone around you that uses that brand, or even LFS. Changing the positionre flow and the light amount the coral was getting might have also caused some issues. And also if the tissue of the coral was injured in moving things around.

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 03:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11724576#post11724576 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by packer
My take is both reasons. Any time you mess with the tank in volume, ie the LR disturbance, it can cause situations with stability. Also I have been told by quite a few people to stick with one brand of salt, and not bounce around between them with water changes.


had i not already been considering switching salts
i would not have used the (free) instant ocean salt (and switched)... espec already knew IO was perhaps not the best salt 'mix'... have used IO for my fowlr in the past and when first set up the reef used IO for few mos...

one thing which may simply be coincidental
(re using tropic marin pro)- is that all my corals have been doing very well since using this salt - and cant even remember the last time i lost anything... the hammer colony has been branching and has looked great and the same for all the lps have in the system... thriving is one word that could accurately be used... perhaps whether the price is justified or not i should just keep going w/ what has been working.

although cant help but to take it very personally
when all of a sudden some of my thriving good corals are dying or not doing well... first time had this happen since when first set up the tank (lost a few branches of the same frog spawn going thru the learning curve)

arrrrgggghhhh!
:(

scotmc
01/30/2008, 03:45 PM
what are your water readings?

usmc121581
01/30/2008, 03:47 PM
I think it was more of you moving the rock around then switching salt. All I use is IO unless I have to do a quick water change. I have to use this cheap A** brand of salt for water change. Have you tested your water parameters since you disturbed the LR?

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 03:47 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11724692#post11724692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by packer
I dont know if I would mix it either. Might trade it with someone around you that uses that brand, or even LFS. Changing the positionre flow and the light amount the coral was getting might have also caused some issues. And also if the tissue of the coral was injured in moving things around.

good point!
and now that think about it i agree w/ you too... we also have a 150fowlr tank that could use this salt in or perhaps give it away etc (usually water changes go from main reef - into fowlr - before finally getting dumped so no need for mixing salt 2x! and reef water is pristine for fowlr tank!)

regards

packer
01/30/2008, 03:52 PM
Yes, also if you dont check water parameters regularly, I would do it as might be some other issue not even related to what seems obvious. Ha Ha, agree- why when things are working and going well do we try to change something? I have done it also, and always remember the old saying.......

phenom5
01/30/2008, 04:04 PM
If I had to guess, I'd say that moving the rock around kicked up some crap, which caused some of your levels to spike.

Have you run any tests?

**Edit** Looks like a couple of people beat me to it. I had a mid-post incident between my lap puppy & cat that demanded my immediate attention. :D :lol:

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 04:12 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11724768#post11724768 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scotmc
what are your water readings?




when did the water change
remembered also changed out the phosban media... perhaps these 2 together could have caused more of a problem... and i switched from 'phosban' brand to bulkreefsupply.com GFO (granular ferric oxide) which was much less expensive.

hardly ever test my water parameters
the only tests i even keep are for nitrates/phosphates... which are rarely used at that... test for these about 1x/mth... do my regular maintanance and forget it!... which perhaps just been lucky thus far!...

regards

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 04:19 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11724910#post11724910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phenom5
If I had to guess, I'd say that moving the rock around kicked up some crap, which caused some of your levels to spike.

Have you run any tests?

**Edit** Looks like a couple of people beat me to it. I had a mid-post incident between my lap puppy & cat that demanded my immediate attention. :D :lol:


i dont know - its been over a week now since the hoh change was done.

throughout the history of this tank
the dsb has been disturbed many times - pumps falling on multiple occasions, rearranging etc etc - and other then showing signs of stress havent lost a coral... the lobo for whatever reason is usually the only coral that ever shows signs of stress when things happen.

DrBegalke
01/30/2008, 04:19 PM
2.

packer
01/30/2008, 04:21 PM
You dont check alk and ph at all? I would for sure make a check of the tanks alkalinity, and also maybe the ph at the same time.

sk8rreefgeek
01/30/2008, 04:24 PM
maybe they miss the 'ol pistol...

just kidding, and not funny. But you said you had a DSB, so I would guess that disturbing that would do it.

Is instant ocean made by oceanic, and come in the blue jugs? what is your gravity at? and what method of mixing did you use (how long did it dissolve before being poured into display?) I've found that the 1/2 cup per gallon ends up being around 1.021-1.022 which is low...

packer
01/30/2008, 04:25 PM
I doubt your alk would be on the high end, so if it was low but your salt brand was buffered better and you did a change with a lesser buffered-lower alk- salt mix batch it might put your level down way too low and that can do things fast to corals.

phenom5
01/30/2008, 04:34 PM
hardly ever test my water parameters
the only tests i even keep are for nitrates/phosphates... which are rarely used at that... test for these about 1x/mth... do my regular maintanance and forget it!... which perhaps just been lucky thus far!...

I feel you on this one, outside of Ca, alk, & SG I hardly run tests. I do, however, keep a nitrate test handy, and that is the first thing that I go for if something goes south...I don't know...like a coral looking bad/ losing heads. Unless there was something really wrong with the SW you mixed (drastically different SG or temp.) I don't see changing salt brands being the problem. IMHO & IME if there was ever a time to start running some tests on your water, this would be it.

sanababit
01/30/2008, 05:32 PM
could be a variety of problems, first if you move things around it messes with stability of tank, if you change salt brands it messes around with stability of tank, changing your phosban media w/changing salt brands w/moving lr and sand messes your stability, IMO your tank went to a lot of innestability from all you did to it, you could have waited to change water after a week of moving the lr and let pass another week before changing phosban, your tank went thru to much too soon

Gary Majchrzak
01/30/2008, 05:42 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11724451#post11724451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by WarrenAmy&Maddy
although have been using tropic marin pro
and in lite of recent threads questioning the worth of this salt compared to the price...

was given a full bucket of instand ocean salt by a relative
(xmas) and used it in the last water change...

since this last water change
have lost couple branches of a very healthy hammer and also one branch of a frogspawn...

actually when doing the water change
was removing a pistol from display and had to about rearrange atleast 100pounds of LR (out of 200#)... which when all put back the euphylia were just placed on the bottom of the dsb for few days until i noticed some of them were dying off.

just noticed today
the lobophylia is not looking good at all... am wondering if it may have been perhaps 1 of 3 things

1.
introducing new salt that may be less then ideal
or may not have a good mix to begin with - atleast for reef

2.
all the rearranging of LR and perhaps disturbing of the sandbed in removing the pistol

3.
or ???



thoughts/ideas on this salt or otherwise problems w/ these LPS corals ???

(tank has been well established - over 200# LR, 50gal display fuge, 210gal system)

regards
I use IO for my reef aquarium.
Randy Holmes-Farley uses IO in his.
I believe we both have thriving LPS- I know that I do.

You need to monitor alk and calcium. Stop disturbing the DSB and blaming IO.
Do you rely on water changes alone to replace depleted Ca/alk?

scotmc
01/30/2008, 05:46 PM
If you don't test you water, how can you blame IO? UNtil you do this, any informatio on this, is purly speculation.

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 05:54 PM
agree about the testing!

tested the ph - wnl 8.2
zero nitrates/zero phosph using seifert tests
salinity 1.026 using refractometer

the nitrates have never been an issue in this system
seems to be a nitrate reducing factory - even during times of heavy feeding (like last 3+mos)... have tested it in the past against LFS tests to confirm results... since setting this system up the nitrates not once ever been an issue (200#lr, DSB both display and 50gal fuge, 24hour lited fuge insump) even before adding the fuges to this system nitrates were still never an issue (i think i got lucky in this regard - whatever the reason behind it! and have worthless skimmer too!)

phosphates - zero
w/ new media assumed they would be... the phosph media is another new addition that was done at same time - switched brands but dont think this could be an issue.

ph
have a 24hr lited fuge in sump (in addition to a 50gal display fuge)... so the ph stays pretty consistant - and the only times ever had ph issues is when the salinity was a little high.


it was a 34gal (brute) water change -
in a 210gal system (125display)... the salt was mixed for about a week w/ a mag9 (not typically mixed that long just didnt get around to doing it sooner)... salinity was matched perfectly... temperature was same...


dont know but not very happy about this

maybe this is just due to circumstances
all changes w/n the tank removing the pistol - which may have caused some stress on its own by itself... but then coupled w/ switching salt/phosph media at same time... perhaps just too many changes all at once and one thing on top of another = too much stress.

maybe this was just freak situation
paying the price for all the times things went well w/ hardly any effort on my end (thanks in major part to higher overall tank volume - has made my job easier!)... or maybe just a result of releasing something bad from the DSB - even though dsb has been disturbed many times before (if nothing else was getting bulldozed by the pistol while it was in there) perhaps being that its getting older - it has more 'toxins' that can get released then it did before.

whatever is going on
want to get it back to where it was - which was basically low maintanance and thriving!... if things dont start looking better in next few days going to switch back to tropic pro and do another water change -

then sit back and start chill-lax'n again w/ a glass-o-wine or a cold beer! (like it was in the ole days... before doing this water change!)
:thumbsup:

i take it really personally though when things like this happen
espec being that this is an artificially created environment and we do have a responsibliity to the creatures contained within... other then natural predation (6 pistol whipped peppermints and a fireshrimp - for those who read that thread :mixed: ) i cant remember the last time i lost any livestock... felt bad enough for the things i have lost along the way due to this reason or that and thought atleast that i was past that stage in this hobby...

i dont think all the water tests in the world
would have changed anything in this circumstance (due to the 'combi' of factors involved).

posted this mainly to see if anyone else was having problems using this salt or has ever had any problems...

thanks for all the helpful/informative replies in trying to get to the bottom of this.

regards

packer
01/30/2008, 06:09 PM
Again, I dont think it was THE SALT, but rather a change in water chemistry from switching salt.

scotmc
01/30/2008, 06:21 PM
your ph is good, but since your keeping corals. I would also test for Ca, alk and mag. Test a batch of io before you put it in the tank. You may have done too much all at once. I really don't think is was the change in salt.

tami1024
01/30/2008, 07:00 PM
I keep zoos,flowerpots, nems in my tank. But from what I have been reading from the other threads, it may have been a combo of different salt,rearranging. U may have rearranged before but u used the same salt u have always used. Too much change for one tank in one day. I suggest let the tank settle, do a 15% water change with salt u have always used. DO NOT REARRANGE ANYTHING! Ck your levels. They may be spiking or dropping for some reason.

tami1024
01/30/2008, 07:00 PM
I keep zoos,flowerpots, nems in my tank. But from what I have been reading from the other threads, it may have been a combo of different salt,rearranging. U may have rearranged before but u used the same salt u have always used. Too much change for one tank in one day. I suggest let the tank settle, do a 15% water change with salt u have always used. DO NOT REARRANGE ANYTHING! Ck your levels. They may be spiking or dropping for some reason.

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 07:02 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11726388#post11726388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tami1024
I keep zoos,flowerpots, nems in my tank. But from what I have been reading from the other threads, it may have been a combo of different salt,rearranging. U may have rearranged before but u used the same salt u have always used. Too much change for one tank in one day. I suggest let the tank settle, do a 15% water change with salt u have always used. DO NOT REARRANGE ANYTHING! Ck your levels. They may be spiking or dropping for some reason.

gotcha! good advice
;)

K' Family Reef
01/30/2008, 07:03 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11726390#post11726390 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by tami1024
I keep zoos,flowerpots, nems in my tank. But from what I have been reading from the other threads, it may have been a combo of different salt,rearranging. U may have rearranged before but u used the same salt u have always used. Too much change for one tank in one day. I suggest let the tank settle, do a 15% water change with salt u have always used. DO NOT REARRANGE ANYTHING! Ck your levels. They may be spiking or dropping for some reason.

gotcha! good advice
;)
:D

Megalodon
01/30/2008, 07:04 PM
Instant Ocean killed most my tank once.

I'll never use it again.