Torn fin on firefish in QT - what would you do?

[MrSquid]

My firefish, royal gramma and 2 ocellaris clowns have been in QT for 1 week. I just went to feed them and noticed 2 rips on the firefish's caudal fin. QT is a 29 with lots of PVC (his hiding spot is a length of 3/4")

He's swimming out in the open, eating dry and frozed foods like normal and otherwise looks fine. (swimming sometimes with his tail lower than his head)

My guess is the clowns are tormenting him, but I haven't seen any proof.

Would you move him out of QT and into the main tank? (which is fishless) I don't have a way to separate him from the others in QT...

[jmkarcz]

Personally... I'd add fish.... but that's me.... I wouldn't worry... give him more pipes to hide in. I would NOT split them up, that would make re-introduction more difficult - if not impossible.

[MrSquid]

You'd add more fish to the QT? To divert the attention and mix things up?

[Bri Guy]

IMO

If you have a lot of fish to lose in the new tank, then don't put them in, but if theres more fish in Qt than the tank, and they look healthy otherwise, Id put them in.

You are going to get 100x the bad stuff on corals not fish.

(IMO people spend too much time Qt there fish, and not enough time Qt there corals, again its based on how much of each you have to lose if something gets loose in the tank)

[jmkarcz]

If it was me, I would always have a QT with say... a couple (3-5) small chromis or something very now on the aggression scale, but high on the durability and expendable scale. Then the tank would be always active. If they were a problem, you could just scoop em and put em in a bucket for 2 weeks with a power head and a heater.

OTHERWISE.... the problem with a QT tank that is never set up is that it take time to go thru a mini cycle because

a) you should NOT have filled it with the tank water which has the same infliction you are trying to treat out of a fish.

b) the tank cycles because you used fresh saltwater and that ADDS more stress to your QT fish

c) and if you are medicating, and cycling... the Am/Nt cycle in comb with certain medications and fish could be lethal alone.

d) Chromis would be perfectly happy with chunks of PVC

e) multiples develop a pecking order among them selves and are concerned with themselves, no others.

f) you would be feeding the tank a minimum amount to keep the fish alive..
g...h...i.j...k...

Just my thinking ahead. For some, a QT is more than a tank in the closet that gets filled only when you bring home a new fish..or when they get sick. Which, by the way... filling this way may send the tank thru a mini cycle and cause enough stress to kill a fish...

I once read and wish I could recall where:
The steps, and time a it takes a wild caught fish to go:
from the wild in the tropics, (natural Environment)

caught hopefully in a net... but maybe cyanide (traumatic or future lethal)

to a bucket in a boat, (hours in a confined water vol, in the sun)

to a bag on a dock, (transferred to a bag, finite oxygen,water and space for hours -pH toxicity building)

to a collector who assembles inventory, (more time)

to a shipper, (more time yet + rough handling [sloshing and bumpy were in a third world country you know])

to an airport, (Cargo shipping areas are not air conditioned! hot environment pH Toxicity building)

in the air Once, Twice, and three times to a destination, (flights are rarely direct - cheaper shipping = more air time Hours or days- AND it has been several miles ABOVE sea level - Altitude affects???)

to an airport store room, (not climate controlled - you live in a northern state - it's cold now and it's waiting again)

to a shipper, (more sloshing and jostling, and Cargo areas of trucks are not heated or cooled. You live in the north...)

to dealers or wholesalers tanks, (may have been in a bag for 2-3 days at this point... ask your self how many people are truly gentle with stuff you ship and to your standards when you ask them to be. At this point they are un-bagged, acclimated and mixed with other fish... sometimes from other parts of the world, that were never meant to come together... what happened when Columbus met the Indians? did they all stay healthy...?)

to a bag, to a shipper, (lets take that weakened animal and some of that mixed water that may contain copper and other antibiotics and put it in a bag and seal it up for the better part of a day or more to ship it again..bouncing around.)

to a transfer station, (you fill in this one...)

to a truck, (cold, UPS drives like a maniac... and have you seen FEDEX... )

to retailers tanks, (Acclimated again. Synthetic salt now. A system perhaps thousands of miles from the closest clean salt water. It is a gain a mixed system, High pH in the bag, again, respiration only stops at death... and don't get me started about the waste products from each step in this journey.

to a bag, (short trip this time, but you could be going home with Darla from Nemo (the fish killer little girl)
and finally to your home. (now you ask yourself.... should I quarantine or not.... and how?)

Now that you've made it thru all that...and I only retained a small amount that was in this article (the work was not my own and I cannot cite the source if someone knows...) do you think there should be a science as well (like the science we use in our reef tanks with coral) to dealing with quarantine tanks...

And do you think that knowing more about the whole process described above makes you appreciate the science or Quarantining your stock and finding work around solutions to these problems?

Just trying to promote some real active thinking for some...

Now just think about why we loose fish.

HOW WILL YOU MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

[MrSquid]

Wow jmkarcz - that could qualify for rant-of-the-year award - but in the "Interesting Information" category. :D That was an interesting read even if you were just recalling what you read - most people probably don't really think about what all their lil' fish have been through to make their way to their living room.

Having worked in an LFS, I've seen how fish ship on the domestic wholesale level AND the international trans-shipper level. And let's just say that our salty friends are VERY lucky compared to freshwater fish! Our marine supplier was in California and DOA's were really rare at the store. We trans-shipped most of our freshwater and arrival stats (and conditions) were horrendous. 500 mollies in a bag with maybe 3g of water - by the time they reached out store they'd been in those bags for several days.

One thing that always upset me was that back then (and maybe now), airlines gave live flowers priority for shipping space over aquatic life. FLOWERS!

And in the winter, not only do things get cold, but they get delayed. I spent many nights at the store where our early-morning flight didn't get in until almost midnight - putting away fish until 3am. And sometimes they'd get delayed to the next day. There were days where we drove to Milwaukee in some pretty nasty snow to intercept them at the airport just to get them into tanks sooner so they didn't face the cold from delays.

On the bright side, the firefish is doing great still. I put more pipe in the tank last night and that may have helped. Still no signs of aggression, swimming totally normal (tail level now) and still eating like a pig.