Why is it bad to vacuum the sandbed?

[an411]

I was wondering why its bad to siphon the sand a little when doing water changes. I have about a 2-3 inch sand bed. I just don't like how the front of the sand bed is turning red and green? Should it be ok to vacuum or should I leave it undisturbed?

[Aquarist007]

The sand bed houses some of the benifical bacterial for your tank--esp in the very top layer-- it is best not to disturb it

What you can do is once a week take a turkey baster and very lightly baste the surface of the substrate and the live rock. this will get dissolved organics and phosphates--the things that are causing the green(algae) and the red(cyanao)---back into the water column where they can be filtered out.

You can also direct a small power head towards the substrate for the same purpose as above

You have the same tank as mine--is it high---if the korialia 4's are high up in each corner they will deliver flow to the bottom

[Aquarist007]

algae and cyano are signs of high phosphates and or nitrates--get rid of the phosphates you get rid of the algae

check your feeding habits--feed less at one time and rinse off all frozen foods with r/0 water before using

you might want to consider setting up a refugium with cheato algae in it--great uptakers of nitrates and phosphates

[an411]

Yeah mine is a 24 inch high. You only have the 2 #4's in your tank for powerheads. Yeah I have a refugium with chaeto. That stuff it front of the sand you believe is green algae and cyano? Also how do you go about rinsing your food? I do not do this

[FranktheTankTx]

First of all.. let's clear something up. If you do not have a DSB (4-6") then you CAN vacuum your sand bed. Trust me, I've seen it done time and time again with no ill effects. As a matter of fact, my LFS (Frank's Tanks) in Ft. Worth, Tx does it to his entire fish store. They are beautiful tanks! And healthy!

If you do not have 4" or more of sand, you will not hurt anything in your tank. Perhaps you should think of vacuuming half the tank one water change and then the other half the next water change.

Since it's a shallow sand bed, you WANT to get rid of all the detritus that is accummulating in the sand bed. It's not being broken down like that of a DSB.

I hope this helps.

[an411]

Thanks for the input I was thinking myself that if I am doing a water change anyway that whatever gets into the water column will everntually be removed by replacing the water. I know that there is always a debate on what is considered a dsb I am not sure what is the wrong or right amount of inches that classifies one. I do know that I think on my next tank i will be going barebottom I think personally that the sand gets dirty and looks like crap after a while.

[FranktheTankTx]

Exactly why I'm going BB on my current 36g tank. I've had sand beds and DSB in my previous 4 or 5 tanks. They always get dirty and need cleaning or replacing. I've decided to go BB and cultivate zoo's along the bottom glass. It will take months and months... years and years to accomplish. But I have years!

It should look really nice. But trust me... if your sand is 2-3" deep, you can vacuum it. If it's been rather dirty, then just vacuum portions at a time until you have it all clean. May take several water changes before you get there.

Or, you can break your tank down and put a new sand bed in and keep up with it. OR... remove it completely and go BB!!

Good luck!

Oh, by the way... I just went Frank's Tanks today and was talking to him about this very opinion. He's been doing it for 17 years with no problem. He hates DSB. Absolutely will not have one in his tanks. But he does have 2-3" of sand in his and one BB tank.

His sand beds are sparkling clean! If I wanted to spend the time he does I would do a sand bed too. But I imagine that takes dedication.
I've heard BB is much, much easier to care for.

[Aquarist007]

I beg to disagree---you can harm the substrate by removing or upsetting beneficial bacteria there

but don't take our words for it --get some more input on it before you do it

The benefit of this site is that it allows much input and many opinions on the subject. But realize the suggestions are mainly anecdotal based on the persons experiences--so weigh all the answers carefully before you act.

[stingythingy45]

"Oh, by the way... I just went Frank's Tanks today and was talking to him about this very opinion. He's been doing it for 17 years with no problem. He hates DSB. Absolutely will not have one in his tanks. But he does have 2-3" of sand in his and one BB tank."

Personally,I would be kind of shocked to see a DSB in a LFS anyways.Would be kind of useless when you have a main filtration system.lol

[FranktheTankTx]

I was talking about his display tanks. He has 3 display tanks, and they run seperately from his main system w/ stock tanks.

He has sumps & refugiums set up under each display tank.

Anyways, a shallow sand bed really doesn't provide anything. That's why it's ok to siphon it out here and there.

[atvdave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11768955#post11768955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by an411
I was wondering why its bad to siphon the sand a little when doing water changes. I have about a 2-3 inch sand bed. I just don't like how the front of the sand bed is turning red and green? Should it be ok to vacuum or should I leave it undisturbed?

It's not bad if you do it right. I've been doing it for 5+ years.

What you have to remember is that whatever you suck up from the bottom, (except your sand) must be removed out of your tank. There is a chemical build up that takes place under your sand, if excessive amounts are released in your tank can do a lot of harm. So when you get a siphon going and you see all that gunk being sucked up from the bottom then make sure it's all clear water in the tube before you brake the siphon.

However I only clean my sand about 4 times a year. I don't do it with every water change and I only clean about 1/2 of it. The rest is trapped under my rocks and I just can't reach it.

[Larah]

I have a pretty sahllow sand bed.. about 2".. I tend to siphon the parts I can reach (rocks are in the way of quite a lot of it) with every water change...
I dont' see a lot of crap in it so far....No "gunk" yet..
But I do have an expert sandsifter (Bullet/Banded Goby) he tends to mess with the sand bed on a constant basis...
My only issue is with diatoms on the sand bed....
I dunno if I'm doing the "right" thing or not.. But there ya go!

[woogy]

I always wondered the same issue myself...i have only vacuumed the sand about 5x since I started my tank 5+years ago...wouldn't u have to keep replacing the sand? I have always battled with nitrates and now I am battling with my skimmer to get it skimming efficiently. Even with a proper clean up crew do they actually get to all the leftovef food and waste?

[sabbath]

I had a nano once , with a 2" sand bed with 20ppm nitrates. I could not get them to come down much even with BIG water changes. When it did come down it would just go right back up again, In about a week.
I Blow the rocks clean and siphoned my sand. Even under the rocks. The nitrates went to zero on my API test kit in a couple weeks.
It did not hurt my bacteria. I never had a spike or anything.

[FranktheTankTx]

Exactly sabbath. See, you were getting too much detritus in the shallow sand bed. Only a DSB is going to knock that out for your tank. And there is a maxed out point for a DSB too.

Once you siphoned your sand bed, you eliminated all your nitrates. Good job!

I'm tellin' ya... this is what you need to do. I wouldn't have a DSB except in a refugium.

[GoingPostal]

I have shallow sand beds in all my nanos 1-2 inches and vacuum lightly every few water changes, my tanks are constantly being moved and I figured that was safer than trying to move them untouched and cheaper than replacing every move. I've never had a problem doing this, nitrates are always very low to zip. I've never understood why we can't touch the sandbed but we should buy critters that do (gobies, hermits, snails). Bristleworms do it constantly. On the other hand siphoning too much is going to hurt the smaller critters, spaghetti worms, bristleworms, starfish, etc.