phosphate trouble

[liamblair1987]

hey guys....need to get the high phosphate down..its actually my bros tank... and he doesnt know how to get it down..he says hes 'tried everything' whats the best solution?

if it helps in anyway..hes running an undergravel filter....im sure that has something to do with it!

[Fish_wiz2]

Phosphate sponge in a reactor filled to almost the top and weekly 10% water changes will bring it down also a refugium with cheato

[bearpeidog]

Also look to where the phosphate is coming from and eliminate it at the source. Are you overfeeding? Do you use RO water etc.

[liamblair1987]

um he doesnt use ro water...he does water changes with tap water but adds like that trace element crap to eliminate all the nasties in tap water...not sure how good a job he does...the tank has been known for overfeeding...can this phosphate be the cause of corals dying?
its not my tank so i dont know the exact parameters

[demonsp]

Tap water has phospates.The undergravel filter is the main problem.
It would be nice to have used RO/DI water to be able to rule it out.
Could be flow , lack of water changes,overstocking , rock placement and amount.

More info like all equipment ,age , size, amount of LR and LS ,lighting , stock . He can take control but will take time and patiants.
Removeing the under gravel filter would be # 1 then water source.
Does he have alot of stock in there?

[liamblair1987]

its a 120 litre tank...hes got
a bi colour blenny, a flame angel, 2 chromis, a percula, a completely red clown (cant remember the name) a six line wrasse
coral banded shrimp, starfish,anenome and some corals- jardinia etc.

[demonsp]

Sorry they didnt teach me metrics in school.
Removeing the ungravel filter will be stressfull more for coral then fish. I would get new HOB filters and do a 35% water change right after removing the gravel filter.If its in pieces then remove i piece each change. Remove then drain to remove more debris and the HOB filter will collect the rest.Then do this weekly useing RO/DI water.After under gravel filter removed continue with 20% weekly changes while monitoring water readings and see if readings get better.If so then continue untill readings are good then adjust water changes from amount levels raise.
If they drop but dont drop enough then there maybe another problem like flow or CUC or feeding scedule.

[liamblair1987]

oh ok...the overfeeding and flow shouldnt be a problem...hes got decent flow covering the tank in all angles.. his sandbed ontop of the gravel filter is about 3''-4" deep. its a rather deep tank then long
and its about 30 gallons give or take a gallon...im pretty sure that would be too small for a flame angel right?

[demonsp]

If its a 30 gallon then its overstocked only adding to the problem.Flame needs to go and maybe one more.If he can remove all the stock for a few weeks to correct the problem this would also help.
I see a major crash in the works and think removing stock would help get things in order.Then he could remove the undergravel filter and i would remove the crushed coral and replace with a 4 inch SB and whatch for tank readings to drop and level,while researching this hobby a little more and getting him a RC account.

[liamblair1987]

haha i just messaged him on his mobile and directed him to this page right here!! he wont listen to me about the overstocking problem/undergravel filter...

[seapug]

The undergravel is old school but could be fine. Removing it at this point will probably really screw things up. Get a PhosBan Reactor and GFO media-- not Phosphate Sponge as suggested above (ceramic media only lasts 24 hours). The reactors are relatively cheap, easy to set up and work really really well.

[liamblair1987]

should such things like feedings be cut down even further just to also eliminate that as a possible problem?

[demonsp]

Feeding at this point wont help. I think he doenst want help.Sad as most of the stock you get came right from a reef and deserve our best care. He wont be satisfied untill he crashes the tank. He has to many problems and theres no addon filter to cure it.

[Percula9]

Do you know the actual PO4 level? A phosban reactor with phosban or any other iron based media will bring down the levels fast. Are you having red slime algae problems?

[liamblair1987]

i dont know the PO4 level as i am 4 1/2 hours away from his tank...i was there the other week..and all he was complaining about was his high phosphate levels...i tried to direct him but he wouldnt listen...its a shame tho...cause he has some stunning fish and corals!! as for algae hes got this darky green/black kind of mossy stuff growing over rocks..and glassworks etc...which i have no idea what that stuff is either!

[Aquarist007]

a phosban reactor will be great but it won't solve the problem
definetly the first souce of phosphates is using tap water
and the second over feeding and or not rinsing off frozen food before using.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11783530#post11783530 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by demonsp
Feeding at this point wont help. I think he doenst want help.Sad as most of the stock you get came right from a reef and deserve our best care. He wont be satisfied untill he crashes the tank. He has to many problems and theres no addon filter to cure it.

:eek2: as horrible as this sounds---its a good possibility

would suggest immediate weekly water changes--20 per cent

[liamblair1987]

what do u rinse frozen foods off with? just tap water or what? wouldnt using tap water just make the process of washing it off worthless in the first place?

[bearpeidog]

I think taking out the underground will cause a ton of problems. Best to leave the sand bed alone for now - stirring it up will probably cause a host of other problems.

Lots of good advice given - start plucking away at them.

1. Start water changes
2. Phosbane reactor - good idea not a lot of $$$.
3. Start using RO water - you can get it at a LFS.
4. Cut down on feeding if over feeding. When rinsing food - tap water will be much better than not rinsing it all (assuming frozen foods are being fed). You can even skip a day or two of feeding while you try to get things under control.

[liamblair1987]

just out of curiousity whats actually on the frozen foods before rinsing them that makes them so bad? are they just dirty ?

[bearpeidog]

I wouldn't say "so bad" but its not helping the tank.

Think of it like a steak that you are defrosting. All the blood & water drains out. Not dumping that excess into your tank is going to lower the load.

Its not a huge load but a contributor - might as well eliminate it.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11784086#post11784086 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by liamblair1987
just out of curiousity whats actually on the frozen foods before rinsing them that makes them so bad? are they just dirty ?

frozen food(like the mysis and brine cubes) may contain phosphates and nitrates that they absorb from the water in their breeding tanks.