Black T Max suddenly looking funky, what do you guys think is going on?

[slojmn]

I have had this Black T max for about a year. I bought it from Karl (Unarce). He had it for a while before I got it. It has been growing and doing super great. Then about two weeks ago it started to look funky at the two corners where the shell meets, pulling in its mantle in the corners but extended in the middle. I have been watching it and it seemed to open more here and there but the corners seemed pulled in. Today it seems more pronounced so I snapped a quick picture and thought I would ask what you all think it could be. I have not found any Pyram snails. No new clam additions, this is the only clam in the tank. Params are stable, alk 8.0, cal 435, mag 1250, Ph 7.8-8.2. I am super bummed as I feel like it may be going south on me very slowly. Can I do anything to save it?? Dips?? treatments?? I am clueless as to what could suddenly be bothering it. I have not seen any of my fish touch it at all.

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg80/slojmn/BlackTMax2-7-08sm.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

are you dosing Iodine or Mg?

[mbbuna]

is anything close enough to sting it?

i see a little bit of cyano on the rock in front of it. have you used anything to treat the cyano?

can you post another photo of the clam a little more from the top and pulled back some?

also how large is the clam? i dont really see much new growth on the shell

[slojmn]

Nothing stinging it, I have not treated the cyano and it has sprung up in the past 6 weeks...kind of weird. It is about 4". It has definately grown since I got it but seems to have slowed down or stopped growing. I do not dose iodine or mag but I run Zeo and started dosing the newer version of Start2 about 4 weeks ago...otherwise things seem to be fairly normal except the cyano and some weird diatome outbreak. I am wondering about the salt I use. I am on my second bucket of Sea CHem but most folks have good things to say about it and the corals all seem to be happy. I'll get a top down shot for you after dinner.

[slojmn]

Top down shot for you...a little more retracted from reacting to the shadows I was casting to get the shot. The clam is still responding very well to shadows and such, opening and retracting well. But this is one unhappy clam...I just don't know what could be bothering it. Maybe the same thing that has caused this onslaught of cyano and diatomes. This clam usually opens really nicely with a full, beautiful mantle showing day in and day out. I am sad :(

http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/gg80/slojmn/BlackTmaxtopdown2-7-08sm.jpg

[Maximus]

Could you possibly move it, Alicia?

[slojmn]

I can move it...what do you have in mind?? It has been in that spot since the day I got it.

[mbbuna]

its got some bleaching over all throughout the mantle and a few spots on the mantle edge have bleached spots.

you run full Zeovit right?

whats the difference between the zeo start you use to use and the new stuff?

[Maximus]

I'm not a clam expert, but when things start to look bad, I usually move the animal to a different spot. Sorry I can't help.:(

[slojmn]

Good question...I have no idea what is in the new Zeo Start. Do you think it is bleachign somewhat? There is a slight glare form the lights in the picture, this may be contributing to the look of bleaching, I also always noticed that the mantle overlapped itself in parts and those parts that were covered always had a different color. It could very well be bleaching some as I have noticed a lightening in the area between the exhalent siphon and inhalent siphon.

As far as Zeo goes I run the basic 4 Start2 Zeo bac, Food7, and Aminos plus Pohls Coral Vitalizer and PIF a few times per week. My bulbs are 2 months over a year old and will be swapped out next week. I lost a Foxface that I had for a few years about 3 months ago so I kind of attributed the algae growth to the loss of him, but the cyano and diatomes seem like somethign totally differnet. I do have a new FoxFace but he must eat different stuff because I am gettng a bit of algae here and there. Should I move the clam to lower light??

Do you think I should move the clam? Will this cause more stress. I have a bare bottom and he is attached to a chunk of rock with his bysal gland but I can put him anywhere as the chunk of rock is 2"X 2" flat rock.

[mbbuna]

if its been it the same spot for a while i wouldn't move it.

it definitely has some bleaching. if you look at both photos you posted you can see at the mantle edge a few crescent shaped spots that are completely bleached. the lightening of the clam that you've seen is also bleaching. if it was just lightening(bleaching) i would suggest that its not getting enough nutrients, but the way its pulling in its mantle its more then that. and the way your getting small spots that are totally bleached suggests bacterial infection.

i dont think a FWD would do anything for it because IMO its internal. but then again if you wanted to try a dip now is the time to do it, while the clam is still strong.

let me look at a few things and ill post back in a few

[slojmn]

UGGGG, Bacterial, now that sucks. What could cause that...maybe something that came in on a coral??? I dip my corals but I suppose somethign could have slipped in. Can bacterial infections be dormant in a clam and emerge much later even though it seemed perfectly healthy for a long time??

[mbbuna]

how you got it i cant say but our tanks are full of all types of bacteria.

Metronidazole is something we tried for PM but didnt really work. its also effective (so they say)for bacterial infections. ive used it on my clams before and they handled it fine. i think i even dosed it at 2x to 3x the recommended dose. you can try that if you want, cant say if it will work. QT only, not in tank http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/198758/product.web

this is the only Metro i could find, its a large amount you don't need that much but the others i found had other stuff mixed in. let me look some more to see how i did the treatment before so i can give you a rough idea

[slojmn]

My QT tank is set up and housing two baby clownfish who are healthy adn ust getting big enough to swim wiht the big guys in the main tank...any chance that I can throw the clam in there and treat or is that a problem for the clownfish who have nothing wrong with them. My intuition says don't treat the QT tank with the clowns in it...but I thought I would ask anyways. Oh yea, I have no light over the QT, just a regualr room light throughout the day...the babies don't mind.

[mbbuna]

i have to look back at how long of a treatment i did but i do know it was more then a few days. the metro breaks down quickly so you need to re-dose every day. so you are going to need some light for the clam. the metro is meant to be used on fish so it shouldn't hurt them but if you can i would remove them first.

[mbbuna]

ya know, before going through all this why dont you try a 10 or 15min. FWD and see how the clam responds. if it doesn't get better you can always try the metro

[ezcompany]

yeah definitely some bleaching going on there.
i believe i have some tiny bleaching after adding prodibio bio digest and bio optim. can't for sure attribute it but mbbuna did warn me...lol
try the 10 minute fw dip as he suggested.

[Big load]

I noticed in the second pic on the right side the mantle looks like its been chewed on then I looked back at the 1st pic and the lower left ,the white spot looks like it may have been chewed on any body else see this? mbbuna, you don't like the probido?

[slojmn]

Freshwater dip it is. I noticed some areas that appear to be deteriorating. I don't know if it is being chewed on or if it is unhealthy and the flesh is deteriorating. I checked this early AM in the dark and found Amphipods up in the fleshy area at the front corner and they seem to be right on the flesh chewing it. I know they are not causing the damage in the sense of attacking the clam, they are just opportunistic and the clam is failing so they are getting a meal. Not good :(. No fish bugging the clam by day. I can get the metro and have it on hand. I could potentially set up another 10g QT tank, I don't want to have to move the babies but I also don't want to hurt the fish with unnecessary meds...Hmmmmm, I will try the dip and be prepared to do more. I hope the clam makes it today as I will have to wait until this afternoon to dip. The metro wouldn't arrive until next week. This sucks and is such a surprise. this clam was doin so great day in and day out, growing and everything.

I have used Zeo since day one on the tank but I did recently change to some new Start2...Maybe coincidental, maybe not. I will check on the Zeo forum about my diatomes and cyano outbreak. The clam is certainly struggling and I can only hope I can save it.

[mbbuna]

an LFS by you probably has the metro in stock. its a pretty common med for fish

[slojmn]

Thanks so much, I thought of that after I posted so I was going to call around and trak it down locally.

[mbbuna]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11794145#post11794145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Big load
mbbuna, you don't like the probido?

a lot of people are successful with the bacterial methods. they can be very efficient at reducing excess nutrients, some times too good. but the biggest potential problem with them IMO is that we have all types of bacteria in our tanks, some good some bad. these methods can be indiscrimanate on what strains of bacteria are driven, meaning they can be just as likely to drive the bad bacteria as the good.

i do think that methods like Zeo are a lot safer then just carbon (vodka/sugar) dosing because with Zeo your perodically adding the good bacteria, with carbon your just playing with whats already in your tank

[slojmn]

Okay...so I came home to find the clam looking about the same, maybe some slight gaping. It reacted well when I ran my hand over to create a shadow. I dipped in fresh water for 12 minutes. It closed up and I could see it expelling water every now and again. I put it back in its spot and it slowly opened some, major gaping at this point and no reaction whatsoever to me creating a shadow over it. I sure hope I didn't kill it. What shoudl I be watching for at this point providing I didn't kill it??

[Unarce]

Oh no, Alicia! Just came across this thread!

I tried looking up what's in ZeoStart2 on the KZ website, but there's no ingredient list. See if it might have iron in it or something, which can fuel PM. During the time I had it, I was using Seachem Reef Salt, so that may not be an issue. However, I wonder if some other affliction stressed it out first (hence, the bleaching), making it more susceptible to the PM protozoan in its weakened state.

You haven't changed you're lights, either, right?

[mbbuna]

hows it looking today? they will look like crap right after a dip but generally start looking better in 12 to 24 hours

[Big load]

When you do a fresh water dip are you supposed to have parameters the same as your tank without the salt or what? I have never tried one, just wondering for future

[slojmn]

Well, I think I killed it with the fresh water dip. The params were good, PH and temp. It seemed to be opening more last night and reacting to shadows but this morning I found my shrimp on the clam messing with it and the clam is partially open with its mantle all sucked in. It does not look good. I have had the worst luck with clams in the past 3 years. Not one has lasted longer than a year. As a matter of fact, the three I have had all lasted about a year, looked great, and suddenly took a dive just like this one over the course of a few weeks. One clam I tried to save by moving it to my other tank...it looked a lot better for about 3 days and then died in one day while I was at work. Frustrating. This guy was gorgeous all along until a few weeks ago.

[Bidadari]

ahh, that's really awful! Sorry for your loss. It's one of a kind maxima.

[Texsun]

I'm really sorry to hear about your loss. Not that it's any condolence, but I lost my B/W Maxima a couple months back along with my small blue teadrop. It was devastating and happened, as in your account, rapidly and without warning.

[ezcompany]

i'm sorry for your loss.
people don't say this much but, after a FW dip, you MUST cover the clam to prevent all your other animals from attacking it at its weakened state. you will find hermits, nass snails, shrimp, etc. all attack the clam in its weakened state. i've had a sixline tear my b/w to pieces right before my eyes, luckily i saw him do it before it was too late.
it also COULD have been your cleaner shrimp (skunk cleaners have been known to pester clams to death) that may be the cause of death.

:(

[slojmn]

Oh bummer...wish I would have known that. I kept shooing my peppermint away but I would come back to find him perched on the clam. It definately could have been at him all night. What a shame :(. Lesson learned but one gorgeous clam dead. I am still in a quandry as to what could have been wrong with this clam a few weeks back to start this downward spiral after a year of beautiful, healthy, growth. Very perplexing and frustrating. I set this tank up to be a fileld with some clams so you can look down on them but I have not had very good luck. This is the third to die in the same way in the past 3 years. I am not sure getting any more clams at this time is the best thing to do.

[Barry N.]

slojmn

IME, after doing FWD on several clams of customer that bring them into the store, maxima do not tolerate FWD as well as the other Tridcanids. We have found that they have a 50/50 chance of surviving the dip, where T. croceas have a 95% chance of surviving.

Sorry for your loss!