Can I take out the Marineland Bio-Wheel Filtration now?

[kremit2007]

I need to know if the Marineland Bio-Wheel filtration system I have in my tank can be yanked ASAP. I have already taken out the biowheels and just left the filter cartridges in the box. My nitrates are always high and I believe that I have a decent amount of LR in my tank. Anyone have any thoughts as I just have a feeling this thing is doing more harm than good? Im not even sure its taking out anything floating in the water anymore, its just no good. I do have a PS that runs 24/7 right now and will soon be getting a Phosban Reactor because I'm having trouble controlling the blooms of red slime algae. Anyway, let me know what you think I should do, I cant decide....Thanks!

[papagimp]

First off, what are you considering a decent amount of live rock in the tank? If this is the 46g, than a decent amount should be somewhere around 55-92 lbs of live rock. The more the merrier.

Are you cleaning off the filter cartridges at all? You already removed the biowheels, which is a good thing and recommended, but if you don't pull the filter cartridges from the box and keep em well rinsed or allow bacteria to colonize them, might as well stick the biowheels back on for all the good it'll do. But if you regularly (every couple days at least) rinse them, then the unit should be helping a bit. Not as effective as canister filters but they can have the same problems a HOB does when used on a reef tank.

out of curiosity, why don't ya list your water parameters for us, as well as any other pertianant information you can offer.

Is this a newly setup reef tank? Is this the first outbreak of cyno you've dealt with? Any fish in the tank yet? Overfeeding at all? Water changes being performed? Ect. ect. ect.

[papagimp]

oops, to answer your original question: If ya got at least 1lb per gallon of live rock and the tank is not OVERSTOCKED, than yeah, you can pull the filter off altogether. FWIW, I run my HOB in my sump, usually with nothing in it cept maybe some filter floss/pillow stuffing crap that gets changed very often, for flow only down there, but if I run carbon, it's done in the HOB.

[kremit2007]

OK.

It is a newly forming reef tank as of the beginning of January, but the tank has been setup since September of last year. As for the filter cartridges, I will admit I am not cleaning them as often as I should be. This IS the first outbreak of Cyano I have ever dealt with and it has been a problem for about 2 weeks or so now. There is the Rabbitfish which has been in this tank since September and through the transition. There are 3 blue-green chromis as well as one cleaner wrasse. All the fish are active and happy, as well as all of the corals except the Finger Coral right now, he's looking a little under the weather for lack of better terms. I am feeding only one small pinch of pellet food a day and then a cube of frozen (literally EVERYTHING ground into one) chunk of food, about the size of my thumbnail or a little bigger every other day. So I dont think I am overfeeding at all actually. I do perform water changes as well and am probably going to do one today again, its been a little while.

I will get the water tested right now and post when I am back, ok? Thanks...

[kremit2007]

Here is a link which I hope works in order for you to see how much LR I have in the tank. The tank looks a bit different from this photo now as about 6 or 7 more pounds of LR was added and many corals are now inhabiting this rock form. Thanks and I will be testing the water no...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2290/2211284348_328be880e8.jpg?v=0

[papagimp]

I like the pic, looks pretty good.

So this tank was up since september but you've only just started converting it to a reef tank? That correct? If so, what kind of conversions have you done to go from a non reef to a reef?

Cyno is a common sight in newly setup tanks, so dependin on what all you've done to make it a reef, that could have done it right there. And usually the first instance of cyno is nothing to fret. Best to wait until it clears before adding livestock , especially sensitive corals that oculd get smothered and die because of the cyno. Second round occurances though usually indicate bigger problems with water quality.

[kremit2007]

Well to say the least, Im a little bit disappointed with my chemistries. I just checked them two days ago, but anyway, here they are...

Ammonia = 0.12 (this was at 0 two days ago?!)
Nitrites = 0 (the color of the solution didn't even remotely match any color on the card, much lighter than the 0 marker even, so I guess its 0)
Nitrates = 30
Alkalinity = ~1.6
pH = 8.2 (wondering why this is low too)
Calcium = 460
Salinity = 1.023

Anyway, please be gentle. These are the results, Im kinda in shock with them actually...

[kremit2007]

Papagimp..... This is definately a first occurence of cyano. And to make the problem worse I guess, the cyano DIDN't start appearing until all the livestock was already added, it was after this that the cyano began taking over. And again, the tank has changed a little bit since that picture. Also, when I added all the new LR as in that picture, the tank cycled once again, so I waited to add anything until it all calmed back down to 0 across the board (except the nitrates)....Any ideas?

As for switching to reef, you are correct, it used to be a FOWLR and has changed to a reef recently. The only real change to the tank as far as converting to reef is the new LS vs. the old CC, the protein skimmer, and the tons of LR which didn't exist before. What else should I have done? Oh and I now test the Ca2+ which I didn't do with the FOWLR and have been adding suplements for Ca2+, Strontium, Iodine, Coral-vite, etc.

[kremit2007]

Can I also add that I just dont have room for a fuge unless it was a HOB but I haven't gotten any suggestions on a good one so I have held off. Also, I would like a sump, but I dont trust the LFS for help and suggestions would be great as I have limited room for the next 8 months. I have the money, but not the space, ha...Thanks

[dileggi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11804977#post11804977 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kremit2007
Well to say the least, Im a little bit disappointed with my chemistries. I just checked them two days ago, but anyway, here they are...

Ammonia = 0.12 (this was at 0 two days ago?!)
Nitrites = 0 (the color of the solution didn't even remotely match any color on the card, much lighter than the 0 marker even, so I guess its 0)
Nitrates = 30
Alkalinity = ~1.6
pH = 8.2 (wondering why this is low too)
Calcium = 460
Salinity = 1.023

Anyway, please be gentle. These are the results, Im kinda in shock with them actually...

A water change or some Amquel should fix the amonia. It's not all that high, but should definitely be at 0.

Nitrates at 30 is high, but I would think under 40 is safe, at least for fish. It may be a bit high for inverts. My nitrate usually hoovers between 10-20.

Ph at 8.2 isn't low at all. That's your target PH. If you tested it early in the day, then you'll get a lower reading, but 8.2 is perfect.

Calcium at 460, I'm not sure. I see people posting to target 420-450. Mine is at 460 now and I don't seem to have a problem yet. My dKH hasn't dropped below 9, so I'm assuming it's OK at 460.

Salinity is a little low at 1.023. It's OK, but at the lower end of OK,. You probably want to target 1.025.

[kremit2007]

Thanks Eric, that makes me feel a bit better. I've never seen the Amquel that you speak of, I've heard of people using it on here but haven't seen it. As for pH, I always thought the target was 8.4. I will be doing a water change today and that might help balance everything back out again..Thanks again

[dileggi]

Not a problem at all. Good luck! The Amquel+ is always good to have on hand, especially for us n00bs. We're always moving this, or moving that and kicking stuff into the water column, adding LR, etc.

The amquel pretty much neutralizes any amonia, nitrites or nitrates.

As for the PH, like I had mentioned, it will test lower earlier in the day. Usually around 7.8-8.0. The salt you use should automatically buffer the PH right up to 8.2 without needing to do anything else.

Good luck again!

[kremit2007]

Thanks man, and for the Amquel, can I add that right to the display?

[kremit2007]

Oh, and by the way, go Blackhawks!

[papagimp]

lol,

I agree with most of what was said. The water parameters don't look that bad honestly. What type of test kit are you using? Some such as the API brand are notorious for being inaccurate. And makes for a difficult color comparison as well, I've seen em change the colors on their cards too often but the solutions stay the same, go figure.

But more specifically, putting in more sand and rock COULD cause an ammonia spike, but it's probably just a byproduct of the tank cycling again and whatnot. Nitrates at 30 won't phase the fish but somemore delicate and sensitive inverts may not appreciate it. Just looking at the livestock list, the only ones i'd worry about with that nitrate level would be ...hhmmm...nothing really. They should all do fine even at that level. Higher phosophates though could cause issues with the Torch, being a stoney coral. Phosphates can effect their ability to calicify new growth.

Secondly, avoid adding any chemicals, such as strontium and iodine or anyting like that unless you have a test kit for the supplment and then only dose if it's actually needed. Testing and dosing calcium is great, IF IT"S NEEDED. My tank doesn't use up enough ca throughout the week so my water changes keep the level stable enough. Alk however is dosed almost daily. You'll want to test for that and probably get 2-part supplement to dose (such as B-ionic or a home-made recipe, the Diy recipe works just as good and ALOT cheaper)

Caution on the coral vite as well. If the tank isn't very heavily populated with corals, it'll just add to the nutrients which can fuel algae blooms/growth.

I don't use amquel personally, I"m a bit partial to Seachems PRIME, which is basically the exact same thing. Add directly to the display tank when needed.

The alk reading seems a little low, but as mentioned, test and dose as needed. PH and other parameters don't really look that bad. (my PH is closer to 7.8 in the morning but will raise to 8.3 after a few hours of lights being on) I prefer a higher salinity but 1.023 will work. Keeping it higher, around 1.026 will probably yeild better calcium and alk in the newly mixed water (which helps keep levels higher in the tank and less dosing)

As for the cyno, it usually appears shortly after livestock has been added. The livestock adds bioload, that helps fuel nuisance algae, so no worries on it showing up after the fact that you added livestock. Make sure you have plenty of flow in the tank, keep the nutrient levels low by performing regualr water changes and keep a close eye on nitrates and phosphates.

Over all, sounds like your off to a typical normal start. Nothing to worry about just yet. Keep it up!

And yes....Go Blackhawks! (who are the blackhawks? lol)

[kremit2007]

Ha ha thanks Papagimp, its like going to the Dr. You literally covered all of my questions, and I take it then you agree that yanking the HOB filter is an ok idea? As for the Blackhawks, they are the Chitown NHL team man come on! Sorry, Im a big hockey fan, not so much NHL but AHL and such are my favorite. Anyway, thanks again for the VERY thorough answer, thats what us newbies look for when we contact these forums with questions. Thanks again, and I will be doing the water change here soon.