Highest par 250 watt 20k DE bulb?

[cutegecko3]

Im currently running a pheonix 250 watt 14k DE bulb on a icecap electronic ballast.When its time to change bulbs i might switch to a 20k if anyone knows of one that has a high enough par value.

[JCTewks]

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/index.htm
http://www.cnidarianreef.com/lamps.cfm

There ya go...you can do all the research that you want :D

[hahnmeister]

EVC 20,000K... I have used it and consider it a great bulb.

[jimsflies]

Who carries the EVC bulbs?

[Reeferhead]

I went through 2 EVC bulbs quick. The first puttered out in about a month the 2nd lasted a few weeks longer. Also, way to purple too IMO. I'm running the Pheonix again but am also considering trying another 20k DE, maybe the XM. I have a XM 20K 175watt SE on my frag tank and love the colors it does for my zoas and rics, however some of the SPS look worse after a few weeks under it.

[DarG]

EVC 20000K has the same spectral signature of Helios 20000K, atleast in the DE versions. I think they are the same bulb. If I wanted to or had to use a blue bulb, the Helios would be it. I wouldnt call it purple but the reason why it appears to be a different blue than most blue bulbs, I believe, is because it has a good amount of actinic energy along with the blue spike. It isnt the washed out blue of the Phoenix and some other blue bulbs ... to my eyes and IMO.
It's all very personal on how we view these things so take it with a grain of salt. One guys beautiful Phoenix bulb blue is another guys TY-D-Bowl toilet water blue. One guys unique and appealing Helios blue/actinic is another guys too purple. :D

[Reeferhead]

DarG,

I agree with you 100% on the color issue. However, maybe I just got a crappy batch but IME the EVC are junk. Also, after taking a closer look at the numbers on the 250 watt XM 20K, I've changed my mind and it's out of contention for my next bulb choice. The PPFD is about 20% less than the 175 watt SE!

[FranktheTankTx]

I always heard the Phoenix 14k was blue like a 20k bulb. Is there a reason some of you weren't happy with the Phoenix 14k?

I ask because I am planning a 36g corner w/ zoo's and ric's. I'll be hanging a single 250w HQI pendant over the top w/o actinics. Did the Phoenix 14k pop the flourescents? Or is a bluer bulb needed?

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11915147#post11915147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferhead
DarG,

I agree with you 100% on the color issue. However, maybe I just got a crappy batch but IME the EVC are junk. Also, after taking a closer look at the numbers on the 250 watt XM 20K, I've changed my mind and it's out of contention for my next bulb choice. The PPFD is about 20% less than the 175 watt SE!

The XM SE and DE bulbs are very different though. The SE is a contender among probe-start bulbs, the DE is bottom of the heap.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11915147#post11915147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reeferhead
DarG,

I agree with you 100% on the color issue. However, maybe I just got a crappy batch but IME the EVC are junk. Also, after taking a closer look at the numbers on the 250 watt XM 20K, I've changed my mind and it's out of contention for my next bulb choice. The PPFD is about 20% less than the 175 watt SE!

The EVC'c do seem to burn out pretty fast. They start out great though... very high output. They look like a pheonix with more red/purple though, very nice IMO, but not like say... an Aqualine 20,000K.

Something tells me though that any advantage that the EVC might have on the PAR ratings is only half the story. Im sure that after a few months the output would be beat by some of the quality made Ushio/ Aqualine/ Giesemann 20,000Ks. Ive seen those brands last a full year and then some and still look great.

[DarG]

I didnt run the Helios for very long. If they are the same as EVC, and I believe that they are, it really isnt that surprising if they dont last just by looking at them. You can even see the difference between well made DE bulbs and the cheaply made (usually chinese) DE's. The Helios definitely doesnt look like a high quality bulb like the AB's or even the Iwasaki's. It sure does have a nice color for a blue bulb though.

[JCTewks]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11915459#post11915459 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FranktheTankTx
I always heard the Phoenix 14k was blue like a 20k bulb. Is there a reason some of you weren't happy with the Phoenix 14k?

I ask because I am planning a 36g corner w/ zoo's and ric's. I'll be hanging a single 250w HQI pendant over the top w/o actinics. Did the Phoenix 14k pop the flourescents? Or is a bluer bulb needed?

I run a single 175w hamilton 14K with no supp. flou. over my 26g and the greens pop nicely. Personally, I really like the look, but i've not had first hand experience with any of the other bulbs discussed in this thread. The PAR of the hamy is pretty low.... but 250w over a 36g you'll be fine with a lower PAR bulb IMO.

[jimsflies]

by hahnmeister
The EVC'c do seem to burn out pretty fast. They start out great though... very high output. They look like a pheonix with more red/purple though, very nice IMO, but not like say... an Aqualine 20,000K.


Can you elaborate on the aqualine 20k bulb? Is that more of the red/purple color?

[dsn112]

The color of the new Ice Cap 20k, is really nice. I just got it yesterday. I will try to get pics up soon. Very crisp realistic look, but seems like its not a true 20k. I run no actinic supplement and really like the look.

[kdblove_99]

isnt the par on that ice cap terrible?

I cant look cause Sanjays site isnt working for me

[Coralfreak]

Actually the new Icecaps have some pretty good PAR ratings. I have been looking at the Icecap 20K, very interested in seeing some pics.

[DarG]

The Icecaps tested on sanjays site are not the newer Icecap bulbs.

[Coralfreak]

Towards the bottom of this thread is Sanjays test on the new Icecaps.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1290761

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11927847#post11927847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Coralfreak
Towards the bottom of this thread is Sanjays test on the new Icecaps.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1290761

Cool, thanks. Not much PAR though and it doesnt look like they are super blue so personally, that seems a bit dissapointing for the par to not be better. I have a pair of the new 10000K's and they seem to have pretty healthy par. But they do have a slight yellow tint.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11915756#post11915756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DarG
I didnt run the Helios for very long. If they are the same as EVC, and I believe that they are, it really isnt that surprising if they dont last just by looking at them. You can even see the difference between well made DE bulbs and the cheaply made (usually chinese) DE's. The Helios definitely doesnt look like a high quality bulb like the AB's or even the Iwasaki's. It sure does have a nice color for a blue bulb though.

There was another bulb that shared the same spectral plot/output as well... Arcadia or Happy Reefing or something. So yeah, I think this is one of those cheapo knock off bulbs.

jimsflies, the Aqualine is a sweet bulb looks-wise. My cousin swears by them as his favorite bulb. They are crisp, 'deep blue sea' looking... not so much purple as a radium, but they have a green spike I think... because greens really pop under them.

FWIW guys, the efficiency of most 20,000K bulbs, with only a couple exceptions, is so low that its why if people do prefer the 'blue' look, I suggest T5s over halides. I mean, if you want a 'deep sea' look, you dont even see shimmer as much at those depths because all the opposing waves cancel each other out with dispersion and depth. T5s are also much more efficient at making blue compared to halides, and unlike almost every 20,000K which is 'neutered' in its spectrum, you can mix and match T5s better to suppliment, say, the orange-red spectrums so your pink/red corals dont look washed out.

[hahnmeister]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11927929#post11927929 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DarG
Cool, thanks. Not much PAR though and it doesnt look like they are super blue so personally, that seems a bit dissapointing for the par to not be better. I have a pair of the new 10000K's and they seem to have pretty healthy par. But they do have a slight yellow tint.

I agree. Their gains are minimal over the previous, and still nowhere near being a true HQI rated e-ballast. If that were possible, that would be sweet.

[DarG]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11929275#post11929275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
I agree. Their gains are minimal over the previous, and still nowhere near being a true HQI rated e-ballast. If that were possible, that would be sweet.

I agree on the ballasts but I was talking about the new Icecap bulbs :D

[hahnmeister]

oh...

well, what I said about all 20,000Ks holds true for these as well. There are only a couple that can really compete (the aquaconnect 14,000K at 400 watts, the pheonix 250watt DE, and the radium 250wattSE). If you are looking at pretty much any of the other 20,000Ks, you can get more light, more blue, longer bulb life, etc with T5s.

[Milhouse]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11929209#post11929209 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
There was another bulb that shared the same spectral plot/output as well... Arcadia or Happy Reefing or something. So yeah, I think this is one of those cheapo knock off bulbs.

jimsflies, the Aqualine is a sweet bulb looks-wise. My cousin swears by them as his favorite bulb. They are crisp, 'deep blue sea' looking... not so much purple as a radium, but they have a green spike I think... because greens really pop under them.

FWIW guys, the efficiency of most 20,000K bulbs, with only a couple exceptions, is so low that its why if people do prefer the 'blue' look, I suggest T5s over halides. I mean, if you want a 'deep sea' look, you dont even see shimmer as much at those depths because all the opposing waves cancel each other out with dispersion and depth. T5s are also much more efficient at making blue compared to halides, and unlike almost every 20,000K which is 'neutered' in its spectrum, you can mix and match T5s better to suppliment, say, the orange-red spectrums so your pink/red corals dont look washed out.

250w AB 20k + (2) 24w 10k T5's + (2) 24w Actinics T5's = Me a winner!!!!

My tank looks great with this combo. I miss having the Blue Plus with the actinics since they would turn on before the MH, but the overall look is great.

[DarG]

Hahn ... BTW, that other bulb is probably the Happy Reefing 20000K DE 250 watt ...

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/spectraldata-line-2.php?Watts=250&Watts2=250&LampManuf=Helios&LampManuf2=Sun+Aquatics&Lamptype=Double+Ended&Lamptype2=Double+Ended&LampName=63&LampNameText=Helios+250W+20000K+DE+1&LampName2=23&LampName2Text=Sun+Aquatics+250W+20000K+DE+1&BallastName=8&BallastNameText=PFO+250W+HQI+%28M80%29&BallastName2=8&BallastName2Text=PFO+250W+HQI+%28M80%29&Shielded=Y&Shielded2=Y&Minwavelength=400&Maxwavelength=700&Submit=Submit

So, Helios 20K 250 watt DE / EVC 20K 250 watt DE / Happy Reefing 20K 250 watt DE ... all appear to be the same. Im sure there are probably some others. Who knows, maybe some of those cheap ebay 20K's are the same lamp.

[hahnmeister]

The pheonix is still worth it if you 'suppliment' it with some actinics, and possibly some daylifght as well (like a 6500K, pro-color, or fiji purple T5). Its a very very blue bulb, with little else in the spectrum.

FWIW, its actually not too easy to suppliment. It would be far easier and efficient to simply pick up a BLV/Ushio 14,000K, or the similar Giesemann 14,500K bulb and suppliment it with just blue+ bulbs... it will make an icey white/blue look that corals seem to really love.

[Milhouse]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11930833#post11930833 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by hahnmeister
The pheonix is still worth it if you 'suppliment' it with some actinics, and possibly some daylifght as well (like a 6500K, pro-color, or fiji purple T5). Its a very very blue bulb, with little else in the spectrum.

FWIW, its actually not too easy to suppliment. It would be far easier and efficient to simply pick up a BLV/Ushio 14,000K, or the similar Giesemann 14,500K bulb and suppliment it with just blue+ bulbs... it will make an icey white/blue look that corals seem to really love.

I somewhat disagree. I've never tried with 14k's but I had a 10k bulb previously and it was running with 2 blue plus and 2 actinics. The 10k MH overpowered the T5's. I couldn't see them very well. The 10k was just so damn bright. Now once I switched to a 20k I could see the blue plus and actinics. It was too dim. So I switched the blue plus with 10k T5's. To me this ended up giving me the perfect combo. Kinda ironic that I needed to add a 10k T5 to get the look I wanted. I have another tank that has 4 T5's over it. It has a blue plus, fiji purp, actinic and 10k(in that order). I really like the look of the MH/T5 combo better. My next tank will be all T5, but it will have to be a 6 bulb hood so I can mix and match a little better.

[jimsflies]

Those happy reefing bulbs are also called Avalons. I happened to accidentally buy a used one at a swap. After seeing sanjays site I thought I would try it (it's been in a box on my shelf for over a year). It is not as blue as the phoenix bulb that I was using.