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View Full Version : losing color in some LPS


jlinzmaier
02/14/2008, 09:08 PM
Several differrent times I've bought hammers and frogspawn and they all lose their color after about 3-6 mo. When I buy them they have bright flourescent green polyps with bright pink tips and after a few months they fade to a dull green/brown with barely any hint of pink in the tips. They seem to lose their phosflourescence.

I have 400 watt MH's but previously had 150 watt MH's and the change in lighting didn't seem to make a difference. Tank is a 180 and I have a huge skimmer (reeflo Orca 250), run phosar in a reactor, 55 gal fuge full of chaeto, 200 mg oxonizer, the works...... Nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, ammonia all undetectable. All other water params within recommendations and kept stable with very little fluctutation.

I feed them mysis regularly and they grow well, just have very dull colors. So many people have these bright green and pink frags and I want mine to be that way too!

I've tried several different levels within the tank, shaded, not shaded, high current low current, and nothing seems to make a difference. I'm assuming the change to dark/dull green and/or brown is the growth of zooanthellae, which is a good thing, but I want my frags to be brightly colored. Any suggestions??

I've noticed this change to the dull brown happening with some anemones also (again most likely zooanthellae). The zooanthellae is great but I'd sure prefer the bright phosflourescent colors of the corals skin!

I have an elegance which looks beautiful and hasn't lost a bit of it's color since I got it (avatar). Why am I having so much trouble with hammers and frogspawn?

Hope someone has suggestions!

Jeremy

saltycreefer
02/14/2008, 09:10 PM
Sounds like you answered your own question. It also sounds like you have healthy corals, just bad luck in picking good color.

jlinzmaier
02/14/2008, 09:26 PM
When I get them into the tank initially they look great - just like the pictures when I purchased them. They loose that bright beautiful color over time though. Glad my corals are healthy but how do I get them to keep their color? You can't tell me that the pictures of all the beautiful bright frags everyone else has means that their that way becuase they're unhealthy. If their brightly colored when I buy them how do I keep them that way?

How do I keep them from filling with zooanthellae? My understanding of frags turning brown is that it is usually due to the fact that they increase the levels of zooanthellae within their bodies. This is a response usually due to poor lighting and the zooanthellae are reproducing to be able to make enough energy under poor lighting. As I said, I have 400 watt MH's with Giesemann megachrome 14.5 K bulbs in addition to about 800 watts of T5 actinic supplementation. There is no way these corals don't have enough light! With all this light why would they still produce so much zooanthellae?

Jeremy

ElDiabloPollo
02/15/2008, 12:47 PM
Feeding LPS can help with color. Try cyclopeeze or oyster eggs.

Also, your light might be too bright. Also, 20K's might make a difference.

JenDub
02/15/2008, 02:16 PM
What color temp are your bulbs? 20k produce the best coloration, 10k will make almost any coral look dull (with the exception of some sps)

For coloration we have had great experiences with reefnutrition's arti-pods and roti-feast. Also it is possible that between your ozone and large skimmer there are not enough dissolved organics in your water to recreate the conditions these corals naturally occur in

jlinzmaier
02/15/2008, 08:58 PM
As I mentioned, I regularly feed mysis (twice a week as a direct feeding to the corals), but I also feed cyclopeeze to each individual coral about 2-3 X's per week.

My bulbs are 400 watt 14.5K Giesemann Megachrome. I have to disagree with the statements about 20K bulbs. As far as I'm aware, the color temp of the bulb may change the appearance of the corals but doesn't truly change the color of the corals skin or it's ability to phosfluoresce.

Can anyone show me any literature to show that 20K bulbs increase true coloration in corals as opposed to simply changing the appearance?? I can put corals under staight actinics and make greens and reds glow like mad but it's at the cost of making the entire tank look blue. I'm interested in maximizing the coloration of corals under natural white light, not falsifying the color with high color temps.

Jeremy

JenDub
02/16/2008, 02:10 AM
The last study I read found that 20k bulbs produce more usable protein in the coral's tissue, also lps typically are collected from 30+ feet deep where the natural lighting is far bluer than any 20k bulb.

It is a common misconception that 20k bulbs are "cheating" when in reality they most accurately represent the coral's natural lighting. Even sps that occur in a few feet of water have lighting that resembles a 20k radium due to water's ability to filter out all but the blue light.

jadeguppy
02/16/2008, 07:57 AM
JenDub I have to agree. I don't understand why so many people say that 20k is not a natural look. I have to wonder they have ever been diving. When diving the bright yellow is one of the first colors to go. The water is a beautiful blue, even as shallow as 20 feet.

jlinzmaier
02/16/2008, 10:11 PM
OK, those are some very valid points, I have to agree. If there is lack of sufficient light at the appropriate wavelength it would make sense that the corals are needing to increase the levels of zooanthellae - making them brownish in coloration.

Many people run 10-15K bulbs without brownish discoloration of their corals, meaning there is sufficient light at the appropriate wavelength to meet the metabolic needs of the corals. In comparison to 20K bulbs, sure 10K bulbs may make corals look blah because the 20K bulbs highlight the greens and reds. I agree that the depths that these corals come from filters out a significant amount of light, but please someone show me any literature that indicates 20K bulbs increase the color of the coral as opposed to just changing the appearance. I can use black lights to make some really great colors come out of my corals but that doesn't mean that's what I'm going to light my tank with.

JenDub - any chance you'd be able to guide me to the article your referring to??

I don't think 20K bulbs are the answer, but I'm willing to try an experiment to either make my point or prove myself wrong. I have three brand new 20K XM bulbs that I'll use to replace the 14.5K Giesemann Megachrome bulbs. Yes there is an instant change in color when the 20K bulbs are put in place, but my point is that that's a change in the appearance of the corals not their own ability to create bright colors and phosphorescing proteins. I'll run the 20K bulbs for 4 mo and see if there is a difference. I'll take pics now and in 4 mo and see if there is a true change in color.

I think the most appropriate way to judge the color is under 10K lighting, therefore, when it comes time to take pics I'll only take them during the time in my light cycle when the 10K T5's are on with no other lighting (In my light cycle I have 10K T5's come on after the actinics for 30 min before the halides come on - same thing in reverse at night when the lights go out). If the corals are brighter and have bolder colors in the pics after 4 mo then it'll prove that the 20 K bulbs truly had an impact on the corals color. During the experiment I won't make any other changes to the corals location, lighting, feeding, or filtration to eliminate any interference.

It'll be a week or so before I get this all set up. In the meantime, please feel free to speak up and mention anything I could do to make this experiment any more valid.

Again, I'd sure appreciate it if anyone could direct me to any literature to prove higher K ratings give corals the ability to enhance/increase their coloration or increase levels of phosphorescing proteins. That literature could help substantiate or negate this whole experiment.

Jeremy

All Delight
02/17/2008, 12:32 AM
What is your alk at?

jlinzmaier
02/17/2008, 09:30 AM
Alk 3.0 meq
ca 440
mag 1275
phosphate and nitrate undetectable

All Delight
02/17/2008, 09:50 AM
You gotta raise you alk to at least 7

All Delight
02/17/2008, 09:52 AM
I experienced the same thing. My corals would be healthy in respect to tissue and growth, but the colors were weak. My alk was at 4-5. As soon as it hit 7-8, colors started to come back.

All Delight
02/17/2008, 10:08 AM
Here's how one of my corals looks now that the alk is around 10.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/AllDelight000/1-26-08corals034crop.jpg

Here's how it looked when it was at 4-5. It was still growing and the tissue was fine. The colors were just horrible.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e304/AllDelight000/12-2-07corals036tyreeaspera.jpg

jlinzmaier
02/17/2008, 10:19 AM
Are you saying your alk is 10.0 meq????????

In my reply I said my alk was 3.0 meq which is 8.4 DKH. I think your mistaken and confusing meq with DKH. I don't know of anyone who keeps their alk at 10.0 meq without it causing a major ca and mag disruption and likely a significant precipitation event.

About 6mo ago I did maintain my alk at 4.0 meq 11.2 DKH and there is no difference in the coloration from then and now.

Jeremy

All Delight
02/17/2008, 11:40 PM
Oh man, I totally misread that. No your alk at 3.0 meq is fine.

deeznuts
03/28/2011, 11:50 AM
anything new?

organism
03/28/2011, 07:26 PM
anything new?

Dude this thread's like 3 years old.