Best 250W HQI Bulb/ballast combo w.o actinic supplement

[tankgeeks]

just as title states im looking to find the best 250 hqi ballast/bulb combo for both growth and appearance. its a 6 ft long 150 gallon mixed reef...sps at top and mid level, and lps and softies at the bottom...

i currently run a coralife aqualight pro retrokit ...3 150 watt hqi's (xm10k) + 4x96 watt power compacts.....since its time to change the bulbs ... im looking to upgrade my whole setup with better reflectors and wanting to change from 150 to 250 watts. i want to do away with actinic supplements all together and use 3 20k bulbs instead...everything has been growing really well, im hoping that this dramatic increase of light isnt too much for them....i know it will require gradual acclimation to say the least...

as far as reflectors i was looking into either the lumenmax 3 or the reef optix 3 bc they are both short (5" tall and 4" tall respectively) and i dont have a lot of space to work with inside my low canopy..

ive tried researching over and over for answers but due to my indecisiveness figured it was time to see what others would recc.
would appreciate any and all advice and input..thanks in advance

[ekovalsky]

I use and like the Phoenix 14K bulbs, which are powered by EVC electronic ballasts in Lumenmax3 reflectors. They are HQI/DE bulb and will be a bit brighter (and less blue) on an M80 magnetic ballast. I chose electronic ballasts mainly for efficiency.

At least on electronic ballasts, they are somewhat more blue than other 14K bulbs with spectral performance similar to a Radium bulb on HQI ballast. Considering their spectrum the light output is quite good particularly compared to 20K bulbs. You would have to go to a 400w 20K bulb to get more lumens.

Price is good too, they are available for $50-60ea.

At first I did not use any actinic lighting. However, I did add 80w Giesemann Actinic 03 T5 lamps (overdriven to 100w by Icecap ballast) mainly for dawn and dusk transition. The Phoenix bulbs are somewhat lacking in the violet/actinic end of the spectrum, and they do benefit from supplementation but it is definitely not necessary.

[ekovalsky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11852913#post11852913 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ekovalsky
I use and like the Phoenix 14K bulbs, which are powered by EVC electronic ballasts in Lumenmax3 reflectors. They are HQI/DE bulb and will be a bit brighter (and also somewhat more white) when on an M80 magnetic ballast. I chose electronic ballasts mainly for efficiency.

This bulb is more blue than other popular 14K bulbs, with spectrum similar to the Radium with HQI ballast. Output is quite good particularly compared to 20K bulbs, for higher PAR you would need to go to either go to a more yellow, 10K or 6.5K 250w bulb, or move up to a 400w 20K bulb.

Price is good too, they are available for $50-60ea.

At first I did not use any actinic lighting. However, I did add 80w Giesemann Actinic 03 T5 lamps (overdriven to 100w by Icecap ballast) mainly for dawn and dusk transition. The Phoenix bulbs are definitely lacking in the violet/actinic end of the spectrum, and the tank definitely looks better with some actinic supplementation, although it is not at all necessary.

I cannot really comment on growth rates, I have a lot of small to medium coral colonies and really don't want them to grow too fast! That said, some are growing at a ridiculous rate in my tank, including pom pom xenia, cladiella colt coral, and several LPS. The acros and montis are growing much more slowly, if at all.

[gastone]

I just switched from XM 10k on an M58 to Radiums on an HQI ballast. I do use supplementation... but it definitely doesn't need it. I did a lot of looking around and finally decided on this combo. I just hooked it up so the bulb has yet to burn in, but I'm already thrilled with the change.

Garrett.

Edit: BTW, the M80 is the spec'd ballast for the radium lamp so the bulb should be good for around a year, a la my old XMs on the M58.

[werdlone]

I use phoenix 14K without actinic supplementation on an HQI ballast. colors pop and there is great par. If you are looking for more blue...I have seen helios 20K bulbs that look good but less par.

[volcom69]

Just got the 250 watt phoenix 14k bulbs and will be putting them in tom. so i will see how good they are, and i also run a 150 watt 20k xm bulb all without any actinics.

[tankgeeks]

thanks for the input guys.....if you could post some pics when you get around to it that would be great too.....

[tankgeeks]

bump

[USC-fan]

250 watt phoenix 14K without actinic supplementation on an HQI ballast. Best 250de bulb out!!

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n191/kbsmoker/DSC09740.jpg

It does not look this blue in person.

[ekovalsky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11875376#post11875376 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by USC-fan
250 watt phoenix 14K without actinic supplementation on an HQI ballast. Best 250de bulb out![/IMG]

It does not look this blue in person.

No offense, but that picture wouldn't make me too eager to use this lamp. No doubt it looks good in person, but you really need to work on the photography skills :) For starters, put white balance on the highest setting, usually 7500k (or shade). Underexpose the photo a bit otherwise the many high light areas will be blown out -- my pics below suffer from this as I was a bit careless on the exposure. Digital cameras, particularly P&S models, have a much lower dynamic range than the eye.. one of these days I'll try to get a nice FTS using a blended exposure so all the highlight and shadow detail can be visible.

Anyway, for those who want a better idea of what this bulb looks like, here are a few new pics from my tank. All lighting is from the three 250w Phoenix 14K bulbs driven by EVC electronic ballasts. Normally I run the actinics with them, but turned them off to show what they look like without supplementation. I can also post some pics taken with the 2 x 80w Giesemann Pure Actinic T5s running -- in person they bright out the purple in the coralline-covered live rock and also increase the fluorescence in the corals. The actinics are fairly bright even without the MH turned on as they are overdriven to 100w and have their own individual parabolic reflectors. The URI VHOs are a bit better but I didn't want the heat and need for frequent replacement.

Also search for sidewinder770's tank which was featured on TOTM last year. Last I saw, he was also using the Phoenix 14K bulbs.

PS -- I am potentially interested in switching to HQI magnetic ballasts (M80) as the e-ballasts disrupt my x10 exterior light controls. I installed Smarthome noise filters and even a 3-phase coupler, neither of which helped. X10 is outdated and basically sucks, but I really don't want to spend the time and money to replace 20 or so dimmers. Anyone have experience with these bulbs on using both types of ballasts ? I've read they are more blue with electronic, at least Icecap. The EVC runs them higher than Icecap but less than M80...

http://members.cox.net/reef1/IMG_2122.jpg

http://members.cox.net/reef1/IMG_2124.jpg

http://members.cox.net/reef1/IMG_2127.jpg

[eyebedam]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11878770#post11878770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ekovalsky
[B]No offense, but that picture wouldn't make me too eager to use this lamp. No doubt it looks good in person, but you really need to work on the photography skills :) For starters, put white balance on the highest setting, usually 7500k (or shade). Underexpose the photo a bit otherwise the many high light areas will be blown out -- my pics below suffer from this as I was a bit careless on the exposure. Digital cameras, particularly P&S models, have a much lower dynamic range than the eye.. one of these days I'll try to get a nice FTS using a blended exposure so all the highlight and shadow detail can be visible.

You have a really nice tank and photo skills but the was no need to the blast the other guys photo. You coulda kept that to yourself and still posted your pics.

[ekovalsky]

Wasn't trying to be a jerk, just pointing out the fact that the picture may potentially turn someone off to buying these lamps. Had it been a "show your tank thread" I certainly would never have dissed the photo. Anyway I apologize.

It is hard to get decent photos of a lit tank. And anything other than a pretty good photo can be very misleading particularly when trying to size up a particular lamp.

For what its worth, mine could be a lot better too. I'm using my wife's Canon S5-IS which is a P&S, albeit a nice one. One of these days I need to invest in a digital SLR with a fast, close focusing lens and big sensor.

[USC-fan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11878770#post11878770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ekovalsky
No offense, but that picture wouldn't make me too eager to use this lamp. No doubt it looks good in person, but you really need to work on the photography skills :) For starters, put white balance on the highest setting, usually 7500k (or shade). Underexpose the photo a bit otherwise the many high light areas will be blown out -- my pics below suffer from this as I was a bit careless on the exposure. Digital cameras, particularly P&S models, have a much lower dynamic range than the eye.. one of these days I'll try to get a nice FTS using a blended exposure so all the highlight and shadow detail can be visible.

dude i'm using a cheap $50 camera...lol.

White balance :rollface: can't find that option.

[nreefer]

I use Giesmann 14.5 K coral bulbs with VHO actinics. Best I have tried to far.
I have tired
250W Pheonix with VHO and without - too blue and washed out
10K Ushio with VHO actinic - too yellow
10K XM with VHO actinid - too yellow.
You will pay a bit more for the Giesmann bulbs but well worth it. I may try the new Iwasaki 14K 250W DE bulbs next.
(All above were run on HQI magnetic PFO ballasts.)

[xtm]

I've used quite a few DE bulbs and I'm not sure I wanna use Phoenix 14K's again.. IMO it's too blue even without supplementation and it tends to wash out the colors. I personally prefer the strong white look + actinic but that's just me.

Here's my 60G cube with a single 250w Phoenix 14K on a PFO mini pendant..... no actinics:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/xtm5/reef/cubev2/FTS7.jpg

[DarG]

Actually, USC's picture and the last picture of the Phoenix on the cube look pretty close to how I remember the bulb looked on my tank. I absolutely hated that bulb. Ty-D-Bowl toilet water blue is pretty accurate in my opinion. No offense to the hoards that like that bulb, it's just my opinion.

I dont think all the runs of the Phoenix bulbs are the same color. Just from different user descriptions sometimes being too different to just be different color perception. But that just may be another of my cockeyed theories :D

[USC-fan]

Where you running it on a HQI ballast? I think phoenix on an Electronic ballast run "bluer".

[shelburn61]

I almost switched to a DE setup just because I like the look of Phx on HQI so much... I do think it benefits from a couple daylight T5s for the reds and yellows.

I don't like it much on electronic.

[tankgeeks]

well im thinking about an electronnic galaxy ballast to run with the lumenmax 3 or reef oftix 3 pendent/reflectors without any neccesary wiring....just plug and play...

any experience with these combos? which bulb would be best suitable with this combo?

[DarG]

M80 ballast, USC fan.

[dsn112]

The Ice Cap new 250w DE 20k looks very nice. Not what a true 20k should be, but it gives a realistic look, not too blue, and not too white. I saw it running on there new ballast the other day, in there new 250/400 pendant.

[blackstallion17]

Is it better torun HQI or SE halides? I am convinced that my 20k xm 250's are way too blue.I was thinking of trying the geismann 14ks any thoughts?I am pretty new to hobby

[xtm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11881802#post11881802 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by USC-fan
Where you running it on a HQI ballast? I think phoenix on an Electronic ballast run "bluer".

Yup.. Icecap e-ballast. They are indeed "blue" when ran using E-ballasts. I've seen the Phx 14k on HQI and they are very white.. however *according to other users* this overdrives the bulbs, therefore shortening their lifespan.

[DarG]

The M80 ballast doesnt "overdrive" the DE bulbs unless one considers a bulb driven by the ballast that it is spec;d to be driven by and therefore running at the wattage it is designed to run, "overdriven". They are european spec bulbs meant to run at the higher wattages that the M80 ballasts can provide and the electronics cannot.
They dont shorten their lifespan either. The DE bulbs ballast spec is the M80 (Magnetic HQI).

Good article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/sj/index.php

My Phoenix bulbs were very blue on my M80 ballast.

[tankgeeks]

nobody has used the electronic galaxy ballast by sunlight supply??.....how do they compare to icecap electronic ballasts??