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Young Frankenstein
02/15/2008, 01:06 PM
Has anyone tried this, a water chiller using a fan and probably dripping water on a crate with a fan blowing air ?

risin
02/15/2008, 01:50 PM
Sound like an evaporation accelarator :)

Sure it would work, but you'd be going through a lot of top-off water. I just have a fan over my sump. It's enough to keep the tank under 80 in Florida summers.

Richard Walston
02/15/2008, 03:08 PM
sample principal as a cooling tower.

Young Frankenstein
02/17/2008, 09:36 AM
Exactly fellas, thanks for the reply s, can someone explain how evaporation cools ?

dbuesking
02/17/2008, 09:38 AM
When water eavporates ti absorbes heat durning the change of state from a liquid to a gas.

widmer
02/17/2008, 10:13 AM
you could always do a closed loop of tubing through an old salt bucket and fill it with tap water and have a fan blowing on that. It would do the same thing for you and you'd jsut be topping off tap not RO

eznet2u
02/17/2008, 11:15 AM
Or you could do this...

http://www.cvreefers.org/showthread.php?t=7169

Young Frankenstein
02/17/2008, 11:34 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11869147#post11869147 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by widmer
you could always do a closed loop of tubing through an old salt bucket and fill it with tap water and have a fan blowing on that. It would do the same thing for you and you'd jsut be topping off tap not RO Heat transfer will be the issue, titanium coil etc.

Young Frankenstein
02/17/2008, 11:35 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11869526#post11869526 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eznet2u
Or you could do this...

http://www.cvreefers.org/showthread.php?t=7169 I like this.

eznet2u
02/17/2008, 11:40 AM
Oh wait...Just noticed you are in Florida...Where humidity lives all year.

In the Central Valley of California this works 99% of the time. We have a DRY heat...you know...LIKE YOUR OVEN!!! :)

With the high Florida humidity, you would have a hard time evaporating enough water to offset the pump running the cooler.

How about a ground loop.

Madman133
02/17/2008, 12:00 PM
I tried using a mini fridge and running water through there. It didnt work to say the least lol. Tried several different ways of doing it and it just couldnt keep up.

MeuserReef
02/17/2008, 01:53 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11869697#post11869697 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by eznet2u
Oh wait...Just noticed you are in Florida...Where humidity lives all year.

In the Central Valley of California this works 99% of the time. We have a DRY heat...you know...LIKE YOUR OVEN!!! :)

With the high Florida humidity, you would have a hard time evaporating enough water to offset the pump running the cooler.

How about a ground loop.

I live in Houston and face the year-round humidity too. I Looked into the evap cooling before building my chiller and figured that it wasnt worth the investment of my time and resources for a system that might work.

I decided to go with the window A/C Freon type system. It works great. I have the evaporator inside and the condenser outside so all of the heat removed from the tank goes outside.

As far as the ground loop option, liveforphysics posted the following in <a href=http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1312010&perpage=25&pagenumber=1>THIS </a>thread. I know that the ground loop isnt new, but Live had some good ideas for the in-ground heat exchanger.

"Due to having plans to be running plumbing outside, you could use a more eco friendly option. This is something you may want to try.

Buy a stick of 20ft 3/8" Ti tubing. Take it to someone with a pipe bender, who will take his time and make a nice bend in the bottom so you are left with a 10ft long U-bend. Hire a fence crew or a foundation crew to dig you a single hole in your backyard (somewhere near where you are routing plumbing) about 10ft deep with a hole digger. They will have to have a 4ft extension shaft on a 5ft auger to dig the hole. It shouldn't take more than 30mins to dig if your ground isn't all packed with rocks and the guy is skilled. Might cost you about $50-100bucks. Go to a machine shop with a couple of heavy duty garbage bags. Tell them you want to buy a couple garbage bags full of aluminum turnings/chips from a waste tub. They will either just give it to you or charge $5-10. Next pickup about 8-10 sacks of cement (cement, not concrete) and some hot water heater pipe insulation and insulation tape. Foam wrap and tape off the upper 2-3 feet of the titanium pipes, and install whatever hose ends you find best suited for your plumbing (likely some sort of slip over and lock type fitting).

Stick the U-bend in the hole, and pour in the trash bags filled with alumium turnings. They might fill the hole all the way up, but they are going to get crushed down when you start adding the cement powder in. Get a hose running down in the hole and start pouring in the cement bags onto the aluminum shavings. Keep the hose knocking the cement dust to the bottom while you are adding more cement bags. Do this until the hole is filled up to the point where the insulation on the tubes starts. You have no need to try to form a heatsink here, as the ground in the first couple feet of very hot areas in very hot days could be above desired water temperature, which would be conter-productive to the cooling of the water. The ground 4-9ft down however will be cool. Likely always staying below 65deg.

Now you have an enviromentally friendly high power chiller that costs only the power of the small pump to circulate water through to operate. You could have it plugged into your reef controller just like your chiller would be. However, you need some tiny little 1-2 gallons per hour of flow circulating through the loop at all times to prevent the water from going bad from lack of oxygen. It doesn't take much, perhaps just a little dedicated MJ400 throttled back to a dribble but always running.

Now you can easily have a very powerful chiller without the 500-1000w drain on power, or adding heat into the room the chiller is located in.

You might think I'm crazy for thinking the ground is 65deg(or less) on a +100deg day. I work in the datacenter industry, and these ground cooling loops are being used in an Arizona data center with the aluminum shaving cement as a heat sink. On 110deg days, with the surface dirt in direct sunlight reading 135deg, the temperature at 10ft deep was still 60-65deg. It's a very cheap eco friendly motorized chiller alternative that can save huge amounts of money when done on large scales. This perticular datacenter is using a ground loop system to absorb over 4 million watts of energy continously. Ground loops save many hundreds of thousands of dollars in power every year. If they are installed correctly, they are essentially a no maintence no fussing system with a working life of 20+years."

geoxman
02/17/2008, 03:45 PM
This is all very interesting! I just sold my smaller chiller and I am going to a larger tank, but my tank is on the 2nd story of my house. How would you accomplish this when the tank is roughly 18 feet above ground level? How would you suggest I circulate the water back into the tank?

Aquarium Network
02/17/2008, 04:03 PM
in a closed loop or in this case the head would be zero. the water weight down equals the weight up. just the elbows and bends will add head pressure. the 18 feet down is negated by the 18 feet up

geoxman
02/17/2008, 04:20 PM
DUHH! I feel like an idiot!
and that was your first post in 6 plus years-now I feel even dumber. TIA

MeuserReef
02/17/2008, 06:50 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11871404#post11871404 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquarium Network
in a closed loop or in this case the head would be zero. the water weight down equals the weight up. just the elbows and bends will add head pressure. the 18 feet down is negated by the 18 feet up


Ummm... dont think thats how it works. 18 ft of head is 18 ft of head. Gravity pulls the water down, but there must be "work" to get the water back up.

The initial fill of the closed loop lines below tank level would not require a pump, but once they are full, you must "push" water down to raise the water back up.

Always remember, in the world of physics, there no such thing as a free lunch :D


So with that said, You will need a pump that will effectively handle an 18 ft head and still maintain the thruput you are looking for. The iwaki pumps are good pressure-rated pumps that would work well for this type of setup.

Aquarium Network
02/17/2008, 07:30 PM
geoxman, this is why I did not post a thread in 6 years
Meuser Reef
If you have a garden hose 36 ft long and fill it with water
go up to the second floor and loop it down 18 ft and back up 18 ft
will the water be equal in both ends of the hose???
now add some water (without a pump) to one side what do you think will happen

MeuserReef
02/17/2008, 07:45 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11872862#post11872862 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquarium Network
geoxman, this is why I did not post a thread in 6 years
Meuser Reef
If you have a garden hose 36 ft long and fill it with water
go up to the second floor and loop it down 18 ft and back up 18 ft
will the water be equal in both ends of the hose???
now add some water (without a pump) to one side what do you think will happen

And how do you plan on adding water to a closed system?

Fiziksgeek
02/17/2008, 08:22 PM
MeuserReef,

The point is you have a column of water which gravity is trying to pull downward.

I like to think of it like 2 pumps running in series...pump 1 pushes water into pump 2. So the output of pump 2 would be much greater than what you would find on the spec sheet!! In a situation like this pump 1 is really just gravity....and it happens to have just enough woopie to push the water back up to the height from which it fell...(minus just a bit for friction and the like.)

MeuserReef
02/17/2008, 09:10 PM
I humbly admit that I was wrong and have since corrected my flawed views of fluid dynamics.

It makes sense now. Gravity causes the water pressure to increase as it falls, so much so that it has enough pressure to push the water in the "return" side of the system back up.

Learning is why Im on this forum.

Aquarium Network, I have no beef with you, I simply didnt fully understand the subject before posting. (shoe leather tastes awful)

geoxman
02/17/2008, 09:31 PM
I hate shoe! I hate plenty, back a few post's! I am still in my hole.

It is all about learning and I have accomplished that today! Thanks for the information!

rbursek
02/17/2008, 09:52 PM
That is how a water level works.

Young Frankenstein
02/19/2008, 08:51 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11873791#post11873791 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MeuserReef
I humbly admit that I was wrong and have since corrected my flawed views of fluid dynamics.

It makes sense now. Gravity causes the water pressure to increase as it falls, so much so that it has enough pressure to push the water in the "return" side of the system back up.

Learning is why Im on this forum.

Aquarium Network, I have no beef with you, I simply didnt fully understand the subject before posting. (shoe leather tastes awful) I have to admit..........me too :D

erics3000
02/20/2008, 01:00 PM
geoxman you did it now. Now it will probally be another 6 years before another post. hahah I hope a little sleeping on cloud 9 didntscare aquariumnet guy away. 6 years has to account for some knowledge. Sharring is fun. hahaha

Meuserreef great post and ifno. i also live in fl and have my fuge and sump in my garage. I a trying to do something that wont eat up any more electric...