Raising PH W/O a raise in ALK?

[Mojo Jojo]

Figured nobody would know better than the chemistry guys. I'm currently using Kent Marine Superbuffer-dKH. I notice when I dose some the tank ALK will go up too. Tap water Ph is 7.8. Should I change PH buffers? If so which one?

Current stats a minute ago:

Ph - 8.06
CAL - 480
MAG - 1480
ALK - 14

I use Seachem Reef salt in case you need to know...

[moo0o]

you can do that one test....something about getting a sample of your tank water, put it outside and ...

here haha found the paragraph

Some of the possibilities listed above require some effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure the pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. The pH should rise if the pH is unusually low for the measured alkalinity, as in Figure 3 (if it does not rise, most likely one of the measurements (pH or alkalinity) is in error). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If the pH rises there too, then the aquarium pH will rise with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise inside (or rises very little), then the inside air contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should).


here is the entire article..

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

[moo0o]

crap, didnt read your parameters.. IMO 8 is fine!

[NanoReefWanabe]

super buffer DKH is an alkalinity supplement...it says so right int he title (DKH..is an alkalinity measurement)...so of course your ALK will rise if your using it...

if you want to only raise your Ph then use SeaChem Marine Buffer...it will safely raise and maintain your PH at 8.3.....even if you inadvertently overdose your tank...

low PH has many factors that can attribute it...

personally i cant keep my PH over 8.1...i have tried and nothing seems to raise it...Kalk will temporarily raise it to 8.3 then by morning it is back to 8.1 - 8.0..

8.0 is fine just be sure it isnt dropping too much at night...

is your hobby experience is longer then 2 days...
your tank should be cycled before you should need to start dosing anything....you should also be using RO water rather then dechlorinated tap water....i hope you are dechlorinating it too..

try testing your freshly made salt after it has had some time to settle out (age) in the mixing vessel...see what you ph is there...

[moo0o]

i dont think he wants to raise his alk..wouldnt using that product raise it?

[NanoReefWanabe]

i didnt notice significant alk raising with it..i will try it again and check...

won be until tomorrow though as my kalk drip has already started...

[moo0o]

DOUBLE POSTT

[Mojo Jojo]

moo0o - Hey no problem on the article. Never turn down any further knowledge. You are correct about me not trying to raise ALK. If you dont mind me asking what buffer do you use?

Nano - Haha yeah hobby experience is more than 2 days. The Marine buffer you recommended what does it use to raise PH? I always used the superbuffer, and never really had this problem. When using RC, IO, or Oceanic ALK would not hit this high. Average of 11-12 would be my normal range.

Thanks guys! :)

[moo0o]

i use kalk, not really for pH problems, its just my method used to keep up with calc/alk demands. i dont really know what my pH is..hahaha...

[jdieck]

Any product that claims to increase and maintain PH is an alkalinity supplement and Seachem's marine buffer not only adds carbonate alkalinity but also adds borate alkalinity which your regular alkalinity test kit will not measure!

The only sure way to increase PH is by reducing the level of CO2 dissolved in the water by..
a) Maintain proper alkalinity level so abiotic precipitation does not pull it down and the PH with it. (11 dKh is as high as I would go)

b) Reduce the CO2 concentration in your house by improving ventilation, open a windo w once in a while.

c) If possible hose in air from the outside to feed the skimmer

d) If using a calcium reactor drip the effluent at the skimmer inlet to improve the aeration and de-gasification of it.

e) supplement your calcium and alkalinity consumption using a high PH supplement like Kalk or a high two part supplement like Randy's Formula 1 or ESV B-Ionic.

[Billybeau1]

Mojo, Chicago huh ?

My kinda town. :D

Your pH of 8.06 is certainly within the recommended parameters. Especially in our cold Chicago winters.

CO2 is likely suppressing your tanks pH because your house is closed up during the winter months here in the Windy City.

Do not get possessed with trying to keep your tank at 8.3. There is nothing wrong with 8.0

Spring is right around the corner and when it arrives, when you open up the house, your pH will be right back where you like it.

I would not try to add buffers and such to make corrections this time of year.

By the way, Sox or Cubs ? :lol:

[Mojo Jojo]

Jose - I was hoping you'd chime in :D. Will look into having a way for option c to come alive. Hmm interesting point about the ALK's will do some researching on those.

Billy - Cool beans! So then should I just drop the buffer period? If you must you know ... while I live and grew up North side I am a die hard Sox fan :beer: You are not too far out from the city. What team you root for?

Edit: Forgot to say thanks! Sort of cool to know I have two of what I consider wise experts living close by.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if you want to only raise your Ph then use SeaChem Marine Buffer...it will safely raise and maintain your PH at 8.3.....even if you inadvertently overdose your tank...

Unfortunately, that is simply a misleading claim, and even among buffers, that specific one is a poor choice for a reef tank. No buffer maintains pH at a particular level. It is the alkalinity of the tank and the CO2 levels in the water/home air that determines the pH.

The problem with that buffer, aside from the ridiculous claim, is that it contains a lot of borate. Corals use bicarbonate/carbonate, not borate. So each time you add it, borate builds up a bit.

but also adds borate alkalinity which your regular alkalinity test kit will not measure!

I assume you mean that it won't give you an independent measure of it or total boron, but it does roll borate alkalinity into the total alkalinity value.

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11919288#post11919288 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
[but also adds borate alkalinity which your regular alkalinity test kit will not measure!

I assume you mean that it won't give you an independent measure of it or total boron, but it does roll borate alkalinity into the total alkalinity value.

Thanks for the clarification. Yes, the point I was trying to make is that because the borate is not usable for our reef purposes and it is included in the toal reading as alalinity, the usable carbonate alkalinity level might be too low and not know it as it is not know on a normal kit how much is borate and how much is carbonate out of the total reading.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

[NanoReefWanabe]

WOW......my very bad....well and that of the "trusted" LFS guy who told me that...

i find Kalk to be much easier anyway...slow drip all night and i am good to go..

and yeah i cant wait to open a window or two either... -22 this morning though...a tad chilli...

[Billybeau1]

Die Hard White Sox fan. :thumbsup:

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

and that of the "trusted" LFS guy who told me that

That's a prime reason fro this forum: manufacturers and resellers often have inadequate or biased information.