Need fast help please

[Ricky1066]

OK I have posted pics of my cloudy tank and all the tiny particles init .When I got home it was worse So I decided to move around some rocks disturb some sand so maybe it would clear up after a while

Of ocurse it got worse and I am still waitng for it to clear up but I notice I had 5 turbo snails I canonly find 4 and they are all almost dead They have their insides hanging out and I tried to move them to stand them up and the insides almost fall out they have sand and some black stuff stuck to their feet.

I also had 12 hermit crabs I really cannot find them all

I have two questions I never got a real cleanup crew becaue my lfs told me not to? Maybe that is why the water is cloudy (which I doubt) Or should I just go out and buy some cuc if so what shold I have?

If anyone read my last post on the debris it seems to be coming out of my sump which I cleaned Is is another option I have ? I was thinking of shuting down the sump for a few days to see if it clears up that would tell me that was it will that do any harm

[Aquarist007]

shutting down the sump and disturbing the rocks and sand are big mistakes as was listening to the LFS :)

need some water paramters Ricky:
salinity
alkalinity
pH
calcium
temp
It sounds like the cloudiness is an aglae bloom related to high phosphates and nitrates and this is what is affecting the health of the inverts

in the meantime you should do a 30 per cent water change asap

[HammerDude33]

more cleanup crew is not going to help at this point. your cleanup crew is dying. don't add any more to the slaughter.
what are your water parameters right now? start with that. i'd do some large water changes as soon as possible-no matter what the problem was.

[BLKTANG]

First i would check all your water params to see why your snails are checking out.Sounds like Trites,or Trates.I would disconnect the return,& see if something is in there.

I wouldnt buy anything new until you figure out whats going on.

[Ricky1066]

oK i THINK i MAY HAVE FOUND A POSSIBLE PROBELM Skimmer As some of you may know it is new and I was told to run it open for a weekor so I see after I closed it down tonight to make foam Still white alot of the debris stop coming the tank is starting to clear I also swished around the water in the sump and got rid of all the soot The overflow is right next to the skimmer return.

I did a test I do not have nothig except basic test kit and my ph is 8.4
amonia-0
nitrate- 15
nitrite 0

i just did a 30& water change yesterday and the nitrates are the same .

Let me refresh something I said the sanils are not dead yet I notice they were laying on the sides I picked them up and their insides starting to come out I put one on the glass he is still there the other two I stood up and they have not moved ..

I am not sure how to tell if they are dead but I see the isides moving very little?

[Ricky1066]

Ok retraction I just took out 4 snails Dead Holdnig on but dead And Tank is clearing I think it was the skimmer

Does that sound right to you guys?

[HammerDude33]

i don't think running a protein skimmer very dry(if i'm understanding you right) will kill snails. it's something else. if they are holding on to the glass, they are not dead.

[Ricky1066]

I also Did not think so but they have their insides almost all the way out
My nitrates have been 15-20 since day one all the other fish and shrimp and hermits are doing fine.
I do not know what is is or was but the water is clearing up after swishing around the film in the sump and turning up the skimmer

I will take the water in tomorow for testing

[Ricky1066]

How do I check alkalinity I have a swing arm waiting on the refrato in the mail

watr is 1.026

Just did water change last night

[BLKTANG]

You can get an ALK test.

Lemme ask you a question,what kind of substrate do you have in your tank?


I would set your SG @ 1.023 with that hydrometer,because if its off by 3 points in either direction you are still ok,but if you are at 1.026,& its off by 3 on the high side then your SG is way to high.Just a thought.

[cpl40475]

Do you have a small hang on filter if so I'd add to what everyone else has said and add the filter to it also to help clear the water and take some of the excess sediments out of the water.
Tracy

[Ricky1066]

I started iff with what Ihave now Live sand
This is a video shows my tank and the dirt But as I said it has really cleared up alot Since turning up the skimmer and cleaning the debris out oof the sump and the hob flow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNvdJyNes2E

[otrlynn]

If you have any doubt on the snail, smell it. If alive it will smell like your tank--sort of "oceany"; dead snails smell AWFUL!!!

[Ricky1066]

They are out dead no smell at all The insides are out I did all i could I try to clean off the bottoms that were full of sand But I know snails don't let their insides hang out and stay alive.

I am alitle concerned about what happen to them But I think I may have did it when I went and moved the rocks around trying to get rid of debris I might have overwhelmed them

[Aquarist007]

from what I can remember you did not cycle your tank enough from the start?? If you have had a high nitrate reading from the first this is symptomatic of it

I would suggest you set up a small qurantine tank and put everything you have in there.

Then do a fifty per cent water change on the main tank and let it cycle until the nitrates are zero.

You state your skimmer is not working properly and a believe in another thread that you had removed your sump.
You also need to get your filtration system working properly before adding inverts ect back into it

If you can get the remainder of the living things into a quarantine tank I am sure we can help you unravel the problem with your filtration system not working effectively

[Ricky1066]

NO capt It did cycle I explained this I bought fully cured rock live sand and water came from an established tank of a friend and mixed with other water.

I was going to take down my sump but after asking I did not.

My skimmer came with no directions but I spoke withthe manufacture and they said run it open So I have been but coming out of it is debris also So I decided to turn it so it would start foaming it is still clear foam but it is taking alot of stuff out of the water not sure if that could have been the cause of the cloudyness also the film in the hob I removed

I did a water change yesterday for the first time and the trates stayed the same My rock is forming nice algae on it so they tank as you have mentioned is doing ok.

Isn't it possible a fluke or me disturbing the sand so much today killed the snails \
\everything else in the tank is doing ok

[Ricky1066]

I do notice then in my oveflow box I am getting once again a build up it looks like sand Is that ok I assume it is sucking the stuff out of the water and because it is heavy it is going to the bottom of the box But should the sand if that is what it is be floating around in the water?

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11925586#post11925586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
NO capt It did cycle I explained this I bought fully cured rock live sand and water came from an established tank of a friend and mixed with other water.

I was going to take down my sump but after asking I did not.

My skimmer came with no directions but I spoke withthe manufacture and they said run it open So I have been but coming out of it is debris also So I decided to turn it so it would start foaming it is still clear foam but it is taking alot of stuff out of the water not sure if that could have been the cause of the cloudyness also the film in the hob I removed

I did a water change yesterday for the first time and the trates stayed the same My rock is forming nice algae on it so they tank as you have mentioned is doing ok.

Isn't it possible a fluke or me disturbing the sand so much today killed the snails \
\everything else in the tank is doing ok

Ricky you don't have to yell at me, I'm only trying to help:eek2:

Unfortunately in cases like this when there has been alot of posts by you and alot of changes or you changing your mind, one has to do an update on your current sitution

probably another annoying question:
have you been using ro or ro/di water from the beginning

I would say the situation did not help today but the cloudiness has been going on longer then that which by the way you have described it is an algae bloom related to the live rock not being cured long enough and or a filtrattion system that needs to be tweaked at bit more.

[Aquarist007]

pardon my spelling we had friends over tonight to watch American Gangster and we had a few :)

[Ricky1066]

OK Capt I am not yelling why would you say that I value your advice Onhere you always help me

I was dupped as you know when I bought my stuff $10 pd for fully cured rock and the live sand and water NO It has been tap water except what i started with I have heard it is not good but it has been ok for years SO I again ordered my ro/di system just waitong on it to come.

You may be right about the algae bloom is that bad or good if bad what do I do now?

It looks like it is coming up but it also looks like it is dust particles dam thing is it got cloudy when I started using the skimmer I think.


I agree I ask alot of questions and I take advice on here HEnce the one about stopping the sump I did shut it off to clean it out and do water change but as I said I have that layer in the bottom of it again just like in the hob overflow ?


Ok bette yet what Do I do now I have no qt tank and my chaeto as you can see in th evideo is done

[Aquarist007]

Ricky THIS IS SHOUTING in cyberspace :)

I will bet my damsel that your problems stem from using tap water. You just did a water change---clorine ect are affecting your inverts. How knows,,it could be high in copper.
the cloudiness due to an alage bloom is due to phosphates in the tap water.

what would I suggest without a qt tank
Go and get 25 gals of ro water from the local fish store tomorrow. Here it is .50 cents a gallon. If it is way more then go and get some distilled water --its way better in comparsion to tap water
Do a 20 gal water change with it and keep 5 gals back for top ups
Until your ro filter comes continue to only use ro or distilled water and that algae bloom should disappear
Don't do anything else to disturb the cyling bacteria in your tank like move substrate and live rocks around.
And don't buy anything else until you can supply your own ro water

just my two cents worth--hopfully some others will post here too

[Ricky1066]

Sounds ok But let me ask this I had this problem before I did a water change It was cloudy
It looks to me like the particles are coming off the rocks but very hard to tell if I face the poweheads up to the top they make micro bubbles.

What about the stuf sand or whatever accumulating in my overflow and sump is that normal it looks like the same stuff floating around Sand???

And the water around her is $150 a gallon and you need your own buckets

I would love to have the refugium,qt tank 55 gallon pails full of water I just dont have the room

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11925833#post11925833 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
Sounds ok But let me ask this I had this problem before I did a water change It was cloudy
It looks to me like the particles are coming off the rocks but very hard to tell if I face the poweheads up to the top they make micro bubbles.

What about the stuf sand or whatever accumulating in my overflow and sump is that normal it looks like the same stuff floating around Sand???

And the water around her is $150 a gallon and you need your own buckets

I would love to have the refugium,qt tank 55 gallon pails full of water I just dont have the room

good points--is the cloudiness settling all over power heads and rock etc--if so then it is some sort of precipitation probably caused by the alkalinity level of the tap water reacting with the calcium in your tank water
otherwise it is an algae bloom and you stated you have been using tap water for a while--top ups I assume ect

wow that is expensive. what about distilled water at Walmart or something like that--I can't be that expensive

If it is then I would just buy enough for top ups until your unti comes and don't do anymore water changes with tap water. the algae bloom will eat up the available phosphates and nitrates

keep your feeding minimal also so you are not adding fuel to the fire here

[Ricky1066]

Wow you are good it is settling on my powerheads rocks I blow off weekly some stuff comes off but it looks like sand > I keep wiping it off my powerheads and it is right back However I point my powerheads it seems to blow it around I also have a film on top of the tank like oil I face the return at it but then I get bubbles if it breaks te surface

So if it is some kind of precip how do I get rid of the cloudyness and particles?

[Ricky1066]

and yes I have been using tap water for a while top offs every day I will go tomorow and get some distilled water anything special and use that for top offs as I do them everyday about 16 cups a day

Is there anything I can do now to stop all the particles and debris

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11925939#post11925939 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
and yes I have been using tap water for a while top offs every day I will go tomorow and get some distilled water anything special and use that for top offs as I do them everyday about 16 cups a day

Is there anything I can do now to stop all the particles and debris

in the words of the great John Lennon let it be let it be----;)

[Larah]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11926027#post11926027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
in the words of the great John Lennon let it be let it be----;)

I think that was Paul McCartney.... :D LOL!

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11926095#post11926095 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Larah
I think that was Paul McCartney.... :D LOL!


:o :o :o I told Ricky that I had a few brown pops last night before posting:lol:

[suzimcmullen]

You didn't really mean 150 dollars per gallon? Did you mean 1.50 per gallon? :)

Suzi

[otrlynn]

Ricky, not advice since I'm relatively new at this...just a question...could what "looks like sand" actually be sand? Do you have a powerhead aimed toward the sand that is actually blowing sand around? You will see it making "hills and valleys" if it is. I am only asking because I had this happen in my tank before I got the powerheads adjusted...Hang in there, you'll get it right.

[TX26257]

have you tested your tap water

just to make sure this is the problem

ever had ich

[Ricky1066]

Funny thing after going to bed and turning up my skimmer my water is 90% clearer then it was .

Is it possible the skimmer was causing it as Imentiooned i was leting it run straight through I have dumped two tops of brown water so far

as far as the powerheads no I have them facing across the tank not towards the bottom

I really think it is the skimmer but I willget onthe water thing?

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11928001#post11928001 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
Funny thing after going to bed and turning up my skimmer my water is 90% clearer then it was .

Is it possible the skimmer was causing it as Imentiooned i was leting it run straight through I have dumped two tops of brown water so far

as far as the powerheads no I have them facing across the tank not towards the bottom

I really think it is the skimmer but I willget onthe water thing?

cranking the skimmer will certainly help the problem---I don't think that's whats caused it

[Ricky1066]

Well the skimmer is off now It is another thread Iadded water conditioner and it make my skimmer nuts I had to shut it off My water has NO And I mean NO particels right now IN it ?

SO now I am confused was it the skimmer or no?
I also added a bag of carbon in my sump just to help but wow what a difference Still not crystal clear but much better no debris

I am going to have o leave the skimmer off for a few days to let the water conditoner leave or I will be emptying the skimmer every minute

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11929754#post11929754 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
Well the skimmer is off now It is another thread Iadded water conditioner and it make my skimmer nuts I had to shut it off My water has NO And I mean NO particels right now IN it ?

SO now I am confused was it the skimmer or no?
I also added a bag of carbon in my sump just to help but wow what a difference Still not crystal clear but much better no debris

I am going to have o leave the skimmer off for a few days to let the water conditoner leave or I will be emptying the skimmer every minute

good to hear Ricky---you should change the carbon out in about three days this time--it will be pretty gummed up by then

what is your skimmer brand again--its obviously skimming too wet --if you can re post those pics of our system again it would be helpful

Please don't add anything biological to your system until you get your ro filter;)

[Ricky1066]

Here is the sump I put the carbon under the blue spong I dont see any flow but there has to be so the water can go back up All My chaeto is gone had a tny piece got sucked up

Is that a good spot for the carbon

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7479/tanksump003ua2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


Her is the skimmer bermuda rogue It is 100% the skimmer giveing off the debris I turned it on to see if the foam was there cup filled up in 5 seconds so I am going to leave it off for a few days
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7495/tank019yd4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


All My readings are good As I said since day one my nitrates have been 15-20 and alot of people say it is ok Not sure why my sanils dies found one today last one he was same way had black stuff stuck to his mouth I guess I cleaned it off helped him to stick to a rock and he has been there all day I think when I disturbed the sand yesterday

[Ricky1066]

One more thing as you can see I have the sock SITTING IN the wate the hose goes all the way to the bottom of it so there is no noise is that ok? If I cut the hose I get more movement but louder And My tank is right next to me tv I mean right next to it

[Aquarist007]

thank you Ricky pictures help so much.
I can tell by the green on the sock that the cloudiness was a diatom bloom. Normally it is advisable to change the sock every other day.right now change it every day--and by the colour it is helping the skimmer.

You can get rid of the blue foam material--not needed and can trap nitrates and phosphates that can end up back in the tank again

[Aquarist007]

by the looks of it you have room for a two fishes phosphate reactor to hang on that sump. You can run carbon and phospban in there much more effectively then in the bag.

the carbon should go in first and then the phosban because the phosban needs to be able to heavy a little for maximum adsorption of phosphates

[Aquarist007]

at this stage in your tank I would not worry about a refugium and chaeto. You need a good 30 gal refugium of it to notice a significant uptake of phosphates and nitrates.
the two fishes phosban reactor with phosban and carbon will suit you really well for the next while
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r107/reefescapetangster/IMG_4525.jpg

[Aquarist007]

the nitrates are not ok at that level for a reef tank. they should be zero. But changing to ro water will really help as will montly 30 per cent water changes.
If you give your reef rock and sand bed time to cycle enough bacteria without distrubing it --this will also reduce your nitrates to zero.

The best way to clean your sand bed is once a week very lightly baste it with a turkey baster as with your live rock. this won't disturb the bacteria and will get dissolved back into the water column where they can be filtered off

[Aquarist007]

re skimmer --if there is no way to turn down the flow to it then you need to add a ball valve to the line coming from the tank to slow down the gph so it is pushing more air and less water.

I am not familar with this skimmer --anyone else??

[Will C]

It sounds like you are geting some good advice, NYC water comes from 100 (or greater) year old water mains - you should definately use RO water - you can do this easily by getting the 5 gallon bottles @ Home Depot (5.99 per bottle) - this is actually better than distilled. Keep skimming and let the live rock do its job

[Ricky1066]

BY 5 gallon bottles do you mean like Poland spring I get them for free in work But was told no

Capt thanks again not sure abut the phosbane thing what do i ask for/

[Aquarist007]

your welcome Ricky--here's a link on the two little fishes phosban reactor
http://www.fishsupply.com/sectf-42292.html

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11932501#post11932501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
your welcome Ricky--here's a link on the two little fishes phosban reactor
http://www.fishsupply.com/sectf-42292.html

along with it you will need a jar of phosban and a mini jet pump unless you have a spare maxijet around

[Ricky1066]

The color on the sock is not green it was Gray inside is all brown andnasty I do wash it every other day

[Ricky1066]

What exactly do they do? I havenever heard of them and really don't want to sound rude but I do not want to buy anything else I dont have to

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11932567#post11932567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
What exactly do they do? I havenever heard of them and really don't want to sound rude but I do not want to buy anything else I dont have to

phosban media is very effective at adsorbing phosphates in the water column

carbon adsorbs a group of organics that cause yellowing of the water, adsorb some nitrates and phosphates in the process and add an important chemical for the overall health of the good bacteria in your tank.

together they reduce phosphates and nitrates significantly and thus reduce or eliminate algae

the refugium also does this but you have to have a pretty big refugium with a large mass of cheato to accomplish the same thing

why they are more effective then the bag of carbon or phosban in the sump is that the water is forced through the entire media rather then being able to take the easy way around the outside. This results in a lot more of the media in contact with the water column--in the case of the bag in the sump usually only the outer edge of the media is in contact with it

[Aquarist007]

If you set these up or one of them with both media then you won't need to worry about a refugium until you start having fish that rely on a good supply of live copopods--this is the main purpose of the refugium IMO :)

[Ricky1066]

Ok don't kill me hear but why would my canister not do the same thing just put it carbon and run it through with just carbon and maybe some of the phosban? Just asking

NOw If I do get these How do they operate? zI see yours hanging over is there a pump more water ?

Hey did you see my new video on feeding time

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11932840#post11932840 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
Ok don't kill me hear but why would my canister not do the same thing just put it carbon and run it through with just carbon and maybe some of the phosban? Just asking

NOw If I do get these How do they operate? zI see yours hanging over is there a pump more water ?

Hey did you see my new video on feeding time

I'm cool no problem--glad to be helping

there is a mini pump attached to each but you could get away with one pump--a control valve comes with each reactor.

You are right--canister filters make excellent containers to run carbon in--you take everything out of it.

I don't know if you could run a mixture of phosban and carbon in a canister filter---the phosban needs to be heaving and I think that would not happen--it would just mix with the carbon

when you use one reactor you put down a layer of carbon--then the filter media then a layer of phosban so the two can't mix and the phosban has room in the reactor to heave

haven't seen your video---where's the link

[Ricky1066]

Feeding time frenzy on here

what If I just try to run my canister with one filter pad and carbon for a few weeks and see how that works?

I really dont see my sump doing nothing right now as you said earlier it is just a filter sock

[Ricky1066]

Ok ready to yell I just turned off my sump I cannot deal with it right now it is back to gurgling away the tank is all cloudy again.

I am going to try something for me I am goingt to run my canister with carbon and one filter pad do a weekly cleaning of the pad and a monthly of the carbon and see how that works out for a while i know most will not agree but I have read what works for others does not work for some others and the sump is not working for me.

I will keep posted on how it works if it is good great if not I wil buy or make a refugium and do my thing then

wish me luck

[Will C]

(BY 5 gallon bottles do you mean like Poland spring I get them for free in work But was told no)

Definately, it is exactly whay I use.

[Ricky1066]

NO I had asked that in early post a few weeks ago and was told no It still has junk in the water (metals and stuff?

But thanks I will use that for now

[Ricky1066]

Captn sent you a pm