sexing emporer angels

[mattsilvester]

Just as a point of interest, I was browsing through Scott Michael's Reef Fishes book last night (Angels & B'flies) and was reminded (I had read it before) that apparently, "male" emporer angels have a blue/gray face, and "female" fish have a white/gray face.

Just out of interest, does anyone know of any websites with comparison pics? Or do you have pics of an emperor (or your emperor) which you feel has a distinct blue tinge face (or disticnt lack of blue tinge).

Other "differences" are supposed to be that the male fish is prortionall longer than the female...... again, I would be interested to see pics that show especially elongated specimens with blue/gray faces, or notably shorter "squat" fish with white/gray faces.

Its not that any of us are going to try and pair them up or anything, but I am wondering also if there are difference in the level of aggression between sexes - since in nature males patrol a larger territory which includes within it several smaller females territories....... at least that is what I am led to believe. So I am also curious as to whether that translates to males being more aggressive than females...... or males beign more or less likely to much of corals...... or any other feature that might be abel to be attributed to fish gender.....

As I say at the start..... this is just a "point of interest" thread. I think mine is going to be male, as a matter of note..... based on the blue face idea..... I'll try and get a good picture later.

cheers,

Matt

[SDguy]

I saw a video of a pair with the very distinct faces (IMAX reef movie of some sort). The difference is VERY obvious. So....unless EVERY adult emp I've EVER seen in captivity is a female, I'm going to go with one of two options:

1. Both sexes have the same color face, and the male darkens only while courting.

2. Even when not courting the male has such a slightly darker face that it's still virtually impossible to tell the diffference unless you have several to compare to.

I'm leaning towards number 1.

[mattsilvester]

Peter - I must be honest and say that the reason I am intriuged so much by this is that my current emporer angel seems to have a much more "blue" face, generally speaking.... and he seems more aggressive than my last emporer too, inspite of being (at this stage) smaller, yet in a much bigger tank.......

Somehow I think you are probably quite close to the mark with the "courtship colours" thing...... either that or it is only seen in large males, larger than most captive specimens get.

Any other takers???????

[redhdmedic]

I cannot remember where I read it, but I know I read that the males "facial coloring" darkens during courting/mating...so I personally would have no prob jumping on your bandwagon with that theory. I also am very interested if anyone has more info or pics as I believe Arthur is going through his "change of life". dang, what if Arthur is an Elizabeth...bugger...lol

[mattsilvester]

Well here is a rather poor image of my emperor at the moment (terrible quality - camera phone):
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w218/mattsilvester/090214.jpg
It's no obvious in the picture, but his face appears to be developing quite a blue hue compared to most that I have seen......

[ChemLife]

Ohhh, I hate it when I can't remember something entirely...

mattsilvester - there was an article written in Tropical Fish Hobbyist that dealt with sexing Emperor Angels. I recall it did discuss differences between the sexes, but what they were I don't remember. I can help pin down the date of the issue... it was somewhere between 1991 and 1995. Unfortunately, that's about the best I can do. I don't have a copy of the issue.

Good luck tracking it down and happy hunting. Maybe a local library or club or club member could have it.

ChemLife

[mattsilvester]

I'm borrowing a camera (and a steady hand) later this evening - I hope to get some better shots. I;ll post and see what you all think about the degree of "blueness".

Chemlife - don't get that mag here in Ireland I;m afraid :(

Cheers,

Matt

[redhdmedic]

I am sooo glad to see I'm definitely not the only one with selective memory (I know i read it, not sure where...argh) but it was driving me crazy! So, I hit my bookshelves...

It came, again, from Scott Michael, this time it was the Anglefishes and Butterflyfishes book in his reef fishes series. He notes that the males are generally "20% longer then females and the area in front of the black eyemask is dark blue. In males, this area is light bluish gray (these color differences are most pronounced during courtship). The female color is also known to become less intense (blanch) during courtship and spawning."

There...I feel better! lol...and Arthur is definitely going through the change of life!!! I'm so excited!

[mattsilvester]

I finally got a pic sorted out of my one...... as you can see, he is still a changling...... but my last one had a distinctly "white" face at this stage.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w218/mattsilvester/0803121.jpg

[SDguy]

Ooo, look what I came across online:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/SDreefguy/emperorangelfish.jpg

[mattsilvester]

Outstanding pic Peter ..... I would say its fair to say that one has a blue face and the other a white face! Excellent!

[SDguy]

Yeah, this pic is exactly like what I saw in that IMAX film about Fiji

[Creetin]

I had the pleasure of talkig to scott michael and he did say he believes this to be true that males have a distinct blue face.
I have had alot of exp with pred fish and me personally would not claim aggression to be a determining factor. JMO
I do believe the blue face as an indicator. I had a large male and he would darken the face when aggrivated. He turned dark blue when i tried to add a majestic angel and tried to beat the tar out of him. Luckaly the emp was behind a divider.
Nothing like a 9 inch emp grunting because he is ****ed.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've seen my Emperor flash both colors seen in Peter's picture.
Maybe it's a swinger :D

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/IMG_7042.jpg

white? blue? blueish white? whitish blue?
this pic taken with flash under a 400w 14k Ushio supplemented with actinics.