Power Bars

[chachijoe75]

Can the 6 socket Digital Power Bar be used to turn on/off IceCap ballasts or do I need the GHL High AMP Expansion Socket?

[Fishie Nut]

I have three Ice Cap digital 250W electronic ballasts running on the digital powerbar. No problems. Make sure you use the four outside outlets, as they are heavier duty.

I purchased the High AMP Expansion, but never used it.

[AQD_ottawa]

Personal choice but to take the stress off of the relays at HO striking which can exceed over 40 amps in some cases can put wear on the relay contacts over a period of time.

Due to this and GHL completely unable to control what ballasts or quality of ballasts are used we would suggest the use of the HIGH AMP bar to take the risk away of high stiking currents causing undue stress to your power bars relay contacts.

Only yesterday i received an email from someone who had been using a bar for nearly 18 months, the relays have just welded themselves shut, basically given up the ghost by being hit with a huge AMP surge daily.

All North American Controller/power bar manufacturers recommend the use of HI AMP bars for this reason.

The bottom line is I guess, if the HIGH AMP bars were not required they simply would not be manufactured by the controller producers.

But the choice is up to you.

[AQD_ottawa]

I also want to add to this, and this is quite important.

There may be a miss conception based on conversations I have had with clients, that our continued advise of using HIGH AMP bars is some commercial aim or goal. I hope this more technical explanation helps.

In Europe, these extended bars are not required, this is because the voltage is higher well actually double, this means high ampage loads can be carried better with far less strain on the components used in High AMP switching.

In the USA/CD as we all know the voltage is far less, and so the opposite applies, HIGH AMPS create higher loads as the voltage requirements are not there. This is why your home cooker/stove is plugged into a 220V + line in your home.

Its all to do with the low voltage associated with the HIGH AMP rate you are drawing.

I hope this helps explain a bit further

[jpduton]

If the relay sticks your lights can stay on, which is what happened to me Thursday night, I found one light on when I woke up Friday morning. Emailed Michael shortly after Friday ordered the high amp expansion in the afternoon.

I was using my analog bar.
It would be a bummer to have one of the socket relays burnt out.
I just wish the expansion socket could be controlled directly from the Profilux instead of having to plug it into one of your other bars. The additional two sockets would be welcomed.

Thanks again Michael.
By the way the smack worked. I gave myself one too, just to even the score. lol

[AQD_ottawa]

I think this example proves my above posts.

With regards to the High amp being integral, this defeats the object of how the bar works by isolating itself from the main unit, and using independant power to supply it.

Nothing wrong with a good smack to get things working!

[chachijoe75]

Great response, thanks for taking the time to explain. 80some dollars is not enough savings to risk your system. i'll make sure to add this to my order.

[AQD_ottawa]

Seems a hot topic today! This one comes up every now and again.

Yes for $80ish it is in my eyes a no brainer really, considering to get your digital bar repaired after warranty expiration will cost about the same as a new digital bar at $240+

[jgillard]

I had not realised the high amp expansion was only $80. I've ordered one! :)

[ReefRockerLive]

Would the High AMP expansion be only for MH users? I'm using T5's, maybe getting 2 of these would be a good idea?

[AQD_ottawa]

YES - They are for any HIGH AMP load, so yes T5 also falls into the catagory especially with the latest high output ballasts

[ReefRockerLive]

Well then, it's time for me to start saving money for two of these babies! While I'm at it, I'll get another GHL product. ;)

[kidney514]

500 watts heater would also fall into that category I guess

[erikages]

Should a chiller be plugged in the high amp bar? And if so, I currently (ha) have my halide ballasts plugged into both high amp sockets. Could I double up my 150watt halide ballasts into one high amp socket and use the 2nd socket for the chiller?

Questions, questions!

erik

[kidney514]

I think that MH, PC, heater and chiller are potential client for High amp powerbar.
In my case I have 3 x 250 MH and 2 500 watts heater, look like i'll be needing 3 high amp powerbar, Is that correct Micheal?

[AQD_ottawa]

Ok lets clarify.

Total load of a power bar must not exceed 15amps.

So to break down further (in general)

Heaters are FINE on the digital bars, depending on what else you have running on the bar also (i,e not exceeding 15amp draw in total on power bar, taking into account all other equipment plugged in).

Chillers are fine depending on the size, but in 99% of cases will not cause any issue, again depending on what else you have running also (see above)

Kidney - Your heaters should be OK, BUT total draw of the power bar must not exceed 15amps so my statement depends on what else you have running on your power bar.

Here is the Watts to AMPS conversion

Convert Watts to AMPS:
AMPS = Watts / Voltage
I = P ÷ E (I=AMPS, P= watts, E = Volts)
Example:
2,300 WATTS = 2300w divided by 120v = 19.1 AMPS

High AMP striking comes from Ballasts and that is what can potentially shorten the life of relay contacts.

The above statements really comes down to common electrical sense and not overloading a single socket on your ring main.

use the calculation above to determine your over all load and make a decision based on that, as it is only the user that knows what they are running and not us.

But if you are running ANY HO ballasts or high draw T5 ballasts, then consider the HIGH AMP bar.

[kidney514]

Thanks for the clarification

[AQD_ottawa]

The above calculation shows clearly why HIGH AMP bars are used in North America.

Higher the wattage fed on a lower Voltage = Higher ampage draw.

Taking for example the heater question above

total AMP draw on 110V

1000Watts dvided by 110V = 9.09 amps

Exact same heater but for 220V

1000Watts dvided by 220V = 4.54 amps

A huge difference

So going back to high strike ballasts where this thread started.

A ballast on a 110V line can produce anything up to 40 AMP striking current draw

Put that same ballast on 220V and you are halving the current load, thus the reason why HIGH AMPS sockets are not required on EURO equipment, but are common practice in North America

[erikages]

Michael, I still have a question about whether or not I can double up two 150w halide ballasts into ONE of the high amp sockets? That would free up my other high amp socket for my chiller (which I don't what to put into my main ghl digi-power bar).

Erik

[AQD_ottawa]

Yes you can providing you are not drawing more than 15amps on one house hold socket.

[erikages]

Thanks, Michael.

[AQD_ottawa]

here is your running load

150 x 2 = 300W

AMPS = 300W/110V

Total AMP load on running condition

= 2.72 AMPS

[ReefEnabler]

Hi Michael,

I assume if you are doubling 2 lights into 1 socket on the High AMP expansion, you cannot control them independently?


You can control the 2 oulets of the high amp expansion separately though, right?

[Stoneyscoral]

Ryan, your assumptions are correct and yes the two plugs on the high amp can be controlled seperately.

[AQD_ottawa]

SORRY - NO this is incorrect

The two sockets on the high amp will switch together, they are not independant from each other. So when power is amplied to the HIGH AMP bar BOTH sockets will be live.

[ReefEnabler]

wow, so sneaky!

Well all i realy want out of profilux (in terms of lighting) is to have emergency shutoff of MH lighting in the event of really high temp (maybe 83 or so)

I suppose I could get a single hi AMP expansion, and then plug a 3-way timer into that. this way the profilux would only have the ability to shut off all 3 lights at once, but the timer would control their cycle.

see anything wrong with that?

[erikages]

The Profilux interrface will control the lighting issue; you don't need extra timers. It will a) control the on/off cycles by means of programmable timing and b) shut particular lights off if temperature climbs to a level that you determine. For example, my halides switch on from 9am to 4pm by means of the Profilux (through the high amp bar). I've set it so that the Profilux shuts off the halides, and only the halides, if temperature climbs by 2.5 degrees, which is a lot for my tank, which only varies by 3/4 of a degree at the very most in a 24-hour period thanks to careful chilling/heating programming.

Hopefully this helps you in your thinking.

[ReefEnabler]

yes I know it has the ability to time and shut off lighting.

But they are saying for 250W MH you need high AMP expansion. And each expansion is only 1 controllable toggle wth profilux (according to Michael).

So for 3 MH lights I would need 3 expansions to still control them independently. $83 each so $250 dollars.

id rather just buy 1 hi AMP expansion. I'm pretty sure I can find a good 3-way timer for cheaper then $160.

[erikages]

Gotcha. Didn't realize you wanted to control each halide independently. You're right: seems like a good solution. BTW, NOMA makes digital times for block heaters in cars; I assume these are high amp, which would work well for halides. They're what I used to use before switching to the Profilux (and the high amp bar for halides).

BTW: I was hoping to use one high amp socket for my halides and the second for the chiller, but now it's clear this won't work as they're switched as one. Oh well.

[ReefEnabler]

yah I'm having a hard time thinking when the 2 outlets on a hi AMP expansion would ever be useful.

[AQD_ottawa]

Erik, you dont need a HIGH AMP for your chiller as I said before, providing your load does not exceed 15AMPS in total for the 6 socket power bar.

The HIGH AMP is for protecting against high amp in rush for items such as ballasts, Chillers do not create this inrush draw as a general rule.

Tony - You can use timers yes and have the digital bar set to permanent on but does that not defeat the object of even using the profiLux for your lighting, you may as well in this case plug them straight into a wall socket on a timer.

I understand what you want to do which is very valid, but the reason the two sockets switch together is beacuse they are controlled by one socket on the digital bar.

[erikages]

Thanks, Michael. I thought the compressor in the chiller would be an issue, which is why I haven't connected it yet. But clearly I'm not an electrician and don't understand the underlying principles.

BTW: I'm picking up my 4-pump dosing unit today. Very excited about this. :)

[ReefEnabler]

"You can use timers yes and have the digital bar set to permanent on but does that not defeat the object of even using the profiLux for your lighting, you may as well in this case plug them straight into a wall socket on a timer."


Sure I get what you're saying. IMO it does not defeat the purpose entirely. Like I said, I am mostly wanting the profilux to be able to turn OFF the MH lights if temp rises too high, in case the chiller fails, or my house AC fails and the air temp goes off the charts (omg last summer my house got in the 90s while the AC broke!)

Im primarily using the profilux for the pH control, ATO and dosing.


would you say that an ATI Powermodule with 4x39W T5 lighting should be on high AMP load? This is the lighting for my frag tank.


btw im crazy about redundancy. for temp control I'm going to use a Ranco plugged into the powerbar, and then hook up 2x250W heaters to the ranco. this way heaters only go on if both profilux and ranco agree they should be on.

of course I suppose it also doubles the chance that NO heating will occur, but I think thats much less serious than heaters staying on. I' welcome feedback on that idea.


Thanks!

[AQD_ottawa]

It is difficult to give feedback as I think your looking for reasurrance.

When clients start to talk about redundancies I really cant make much od a comment as this is all down to personal security, what makes you sleep easier.

To answer your other question, T5's have less of a kick than HO, but without knowing the technical data, again hard to advise, bottom line is common sense

[AQD_ottawa]

Erik, guess your going to prog growth, say hi to Joel for me!

[ReefEnabler]

understood and thanks.

I think I'll go with 2 hi amps, 1 for my MH lighting and another for the T5 just in case.

Ryan (tony? : )


*edit* now I can see a use for the 2 sockets of hi AMP. the ATI 4 bulb has 2 ballasts. perfect :)

[AQD_ottawa]

yep this is the exact reason why the HIGH AMP has two sockets, most lights have two ballasts with two cables

[Creetin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12007416#post12007416 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AQD_ottawa
yep this is the exact reason why the HIGH AMP has two sockets, most lights have two ballasts with two cables

So I can plug this to a seperate wall outlet, and have it be a seperate outlet say 6 on my dig bar this would be #7???
The outlet is not plugged into the powerbar taking up a plug space? Just the controll wire daisy chained.
Also i want one asap i run my 400w ballasts on my dig bar and seen this and want them off before they damage the bar.
I have 2 400w ballasts i need to plug in and i can use one of these?

[Creetin]

When will more be in stock?

[AQD_ottawa]

NO!

Ok again simple explanation

The hi amp control plug is plugged into a digital power bar or analogue bar socket. The power line of the hi amp goes into a wall socket.

You then program the analogue or digital bars socket you have plugged the hi amp control line into to switch when you want your lights on and off.

Therfore you are not gaining or loosing a socket

Both hi amp sockets switch together.

Available in stock now

[Creetin]

Avail from who?
Thats what i thought with all the questions about them i had gotten lost.
So i can pug 2 400w ballasts on one of these and not hurt the main powerbars amp draw as long as its on a seperate outlet?

I would vote for matthias making a 4 plug version of this being able to controll all 4 outlets seperate!!!

[kidney514]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12008030#post12008030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AQD_ottawa
NO!

Ok again simple explanation

The hi amp control plug is plugged into a digital power bar or analogue bar socket. The power line of the hi amp goes into a wall socket.

You then program the analogue or digital bars socket you have plugged the hi amp control line into to switch when you want your lights on and off.

Therfore you are not gaining or loosing a socket

Both hi amp sockets switch together.

Available in stock now
Hey michael (or someone else), may be you should post a picture of typical hook up! Just a suggestions :)

[AQD_ottawa]

No reason really to post a picture of this, it is so simple

two power lines, one plugs into profilux plug bar socket the other into a wall socket. thats it, nothing else to show really.

The sockets are avaliable from all our retailers Creetin

Best wishes
Michael

[jgillard]

I am not sure what is so confusing about this.

You plug the high amp cable plug into an outlet on your switchable power bar. There is another high ap cable outlet that goes to a seperate wall outlet. (So basically power is not supplied to the high amp through the switcable bar). You control whatever outlet on the switchable bar as if the device was plugged directly into it.

All this does is allow you to do is to avoid feeding power to the device through the switchable bar. (Thus protecting the switches from high current which can cause them to fuse)

[AQD_ottawa]

agreed

[Creetin]

Its not confusing, If i would have seen 2 plugs i would have known that off the bat. I am used to neptune controllers and they have a controll line like the analog and the dig bar on thier HD extentions to be used as seperate outlets not a add on to an outlet. (DC4 HD)
I just wanted to make sure i can use one of these to controll 2 400 watt ballasts without compromising the unit itself.\

Michael, You sure about that? ;) Mr Todd is out and so is salty.

[AQD_ottawa]

Probably due to the rush this thread has kinda caused, Todd will have more in about 14 days and so will salty.

They clear customs on monday so will be dealer shipped on tuesday.

Todd has 6 coming, I am not sure on salty as yet.

[ReefEnabler]

lol 6 doesn't stand a chance. im thinking of 4.

[jgillard]

Creetin:

With using the high amp it would be no different then having the 400w ballasts plugged into your wall on the same circuit. The point of these is to protect the digital/analogue switchable bars.

[Creetin]

Gotcha I figured that out after michael responded.
:) Thanks

[kidney514]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12008425#post12008425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jgillard
I am not sure what is so confusing about this.

You plug the high amp cable plug into an outlet on your switchable power bar. There is another high ap cable outlet that goes to a seperate wall outlet. (So basically power is not supplied to the high amp through the switcable bar). You control whatever outlet on the switchable bar as if the device was plugged directly into it.

All this does is allow you to do is to avoid feeding power to the device through the switchable bar. (Thus protecting the switches from high current which can cause them to fuse)
I understood the concept it was for others that might not picture it :)

[Stoneyscoral]

Sorry about the misinformation, it was early.

[chachijoe75]

not cool...I wanted to have my Actinics and hour before and after the rest :(

I know, I know...buy a second High AMP Bar

But hey, having reef is like having a stupid kid in med school...you keep throwing $ at it!

[ReefEnabler]

i guess another benefit of the high amp expansion comes if you are using something like a DJ powercenter for manual switching. with the hi AMP it would be easy to have a component controlled via profilux and manually switchable.

although I have heard of people wiring a DJ powercenter directly into their powerbar to be able to manually override with switches. I dont want to do that :)