Do inverts add to the bio load

[Ricky1066]

Maybe yet another dumb question But I canot dind an answer no where.

I am looking to add nass snails Ihave 2 which I never see and I know I have enough fish already BUt Do inverts add to the bio load or not?

I was looking to add to the cleanup crew since I was told I have enough or too many fish .things that help clean up crabs and snails

[Jpergamo]

never a dumb question, its actually a good one cuz i dont really know an exact answer. will 2 snails and a few more crabs make or brake the tank? probly not....but remember that even tho u have a lot of fish if there, way TOO many inverts and not enough food for thm and they will starve.

[Norward]

IMO, any increase in bioload from inverts would be small ricky. As I mentioned in the previous post, adding to your CUC a few at a time is best. Sorry about the nassarius disappearing: I have four that come out during feeding time only. They are as entertaining to my wife as the fish and shrimp. I have a another in a long smooth shell that comes out once every month or so. It sounds like things are stabilizing for your tank. How many lbs of LR do you have in there?

[Ricky1066]

I have 75 pounds of lr I will probaly need more alot of them are covering with red choraline I have only 7 turbo snails 12 hermit crabs and 2 cleaner shrimp and those two nass snails .I see some debri on the sand Not sure if it supposed to be there or not. So I wanted to add some more would love some regular crbas you see them mving all over the lfs tanks. But not sure what are ok or not

[petoonia]

The only crabs I would trust are hermits, porcelain crabs, or an emerald crab. With the hermits try to get the smaller dwarf hermits they stay a little bit smaller and dont need really big shells. I've also had good luck with scarlet hermit crabs. Just be sure too add a variety of empty shells for the hermits to move into as they grow.

I would also try to get a variety of snails nassarius are good I have a bout 15 in my 75G. Astrea, trochus, margaritas, and turbos are good choices for snails you could probably add about 15-20 more snails. Adding a few at a time is usually the best way to go.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11989270#post11989270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
I have 75 pounds of lr I will probaly need more alot of them are covering with red choraline I have only 7 turbo snails 12 hermit crabs and 2 cleaner shrimp and those two nass snails .I see some debri on the sand Not sure if it supposed to be there or not. So I wanted to add some more would love some regular crbas you see them mving all over the lfs tanks. But not sure what are ok or not

IMO you have enough hermits right now--with not alot of fish in the tank they will be srounging to find food.

You certainly can add more snails esp necessarius

what about a brown brittle star---they are really cool to watch. You won't see them behind a rock but all of a sudden you see these arms come out from nowhere. the grandkids like me to put a small piece of raw shrimp where it hides and watch the arms come out and take it.
this suggestion make take some raps--but I have had no problems with it in over 2 years

[Ricky1066]

well after the really nice blue one died(why I don't know) I was thinking of a new one my wife really liked it What do you thnk yes or no

Is the brown one the one with the long skinny arms?

I think i have alot of fish Maybe too many but I watch my paremters I just checked them here are the readings

I have to add my signature with some fish I bought I just like to see a full tank .

Amonia---0
nitrite---0
ph---8.4
nitrate---20 Always been but now I have distilled water for top offs should go down

phospate---1.0 opinons vary lfs says not bad on here say high

calcium----420

salinity 1.025

temp 79-80

[Norward]

I think you are at the minumum for your LR, but 1lb/g is good. I would simply be on the watch for pieces that catch your eye and add to the beauty of your aquascape (my last lb was a pretty purple coral skeleton). I agree with the Cap'n that a dozen hermits is enough, especially with the cleaner shrimp in there too. You might want to wait a while before adding a star (you must still cringe over the last one). A porcelain crab appears to be among the safer choices: I have been considering one for my tank. I have read posts here that emerald crabs are hit or miss when it comes to being reef safe. It's coming along!

[petoonia]

If you are referring to a blue linkia starfish they are hard to keep, and most die of starvation. No one knows exactly what they eat.

The serpent, or brittle seastars are more hardy, and will eat meaty pieces of food. (Beware of the green star though they have a very bad reputaion as fish eaters.)

[Ricky1066]

here is the deal here in NY My lfs has nice rock $5 pd I see a few nice pieces what is the max you shold add at one time? I see alot on sale from people but they want to sell 50 pds or close at once And they say it is 3 years old just add it right in

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11989500#post11989500 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Norward
I think you are at the minumum for your LR, but 1lb/g is good. I would simply be on the watch for pieces that catch your eye and add to the beauty of your aquascape (my last lb was a pretty purple coral skeleton). I agree with the Cap'n that a dozen hermits is enough, especially with the cleaner shrimp in there too. You might want to wait a while before adding a star (you must still cringe over the last one). A porcelain crab appears to be among the safer choices: I have been considering one for my tank. I have read posts here that emerald crabs are hit or miss when it comes to being reef safe. It's coming along!

I put the three emeralds in a year and 1/2 ago--maybe have seen them three times--they haven't hurt anything

but again Ricky you want to put inverts in that are not going to hid all the time or only come out at night---that is not as entertainiing as the hermits and the brittle star.
this is probably what is so dissapointing about the cleaners and banded shrimp--when you hardly see them.

if you want another suggestion--a pincushion urchin--they are always out on the glass and sometimes they pick up the weirdest things and carry them around--I had one that had a small frag of zoos on its back for weeks and one that came up with a missing rubber suction cup that had fallen behind the reef
jee if you could only train them to fetch like my yellow lab:lol:

[Norward]

Somebody more knowledgeable, like the Cap'n (great suggestion on the urchin, I might get one!), should also chime in on this one. If the rock is cured it should be able to go right in, but I would be reluctant to put a lot in at one time. Just because they want you to buy 50lbs at one time doesn't mean you have to. BTW, it's 9.50/lb at my LFS! I will stick to suggesting that you add a few lbs at a time if you see pieces that you like, simply for the purpose of aquascaping. Adding LR will also improve your filtration, but your current 75lbs and protein skimmer are doing that reasonably well by now.

[Aquarist007]

the word cured is stretched by LFS
I would put in one 3-5 lbs piece a week and keep track of of ammonia and nitrates.
If you don't mind waiting a couple of months for full value of the bacteria then add some base rock--that is what I define as fully cured
I just bought 40 lbs of it and was allowed to select the pieces--this is a good way to bring up your live rock in your system cheaply but it takes more time for the bacteria to cycle on it

[Norward]

Thanks Cap'n!

[Ricky1066]

Funny thing on the urchin My kids just saw that in the store and said can we get that and I said after I see what it is . NOw that yo mentionit is it ok to put in MY tank

I do have alot of fish MY bad on that I added alot here is what I have now

1 clown
3 cardinals
2 topedos
1 royal gamma
1 flame angel
3 green chromis

Cuc
1 algae blenny
12 hermit crabs
7 turbo snails
2 cleaner shrimp

[coryaquarium101]

This is what I have learned from on here with CUC.

Good are Nausarius, astrea, trochus, margarita, and turbo are good snails to get. Ceriths will help. Small tiger tail sea cucumbers are good. Porcelain crabs are good.

Not Good= Sand sifting star and Arrow crabs.

[Ricky1066]

I have to say this though I keep hearing I have too many fish
Since going to the canister and getiing the skimmer workiing ( it is still gove me black water in th ecup no sludge IS that ok)
The entire tank is out all day swimming and playing no fighting and funny as heck as soon as the light oges out they go to slepp

But paramenters are ok and no fighting

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11989765#post11989765 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
Funny thing on the urchin My kids just saw that in the store and said can we get that and I said after I see what it is . NOw that yo mentionit is it ok to put in MY tank

I do have alot of fish MY bad on that I added alot here is what I have now

1 clown
3 cardinals
2 topedos
1 royal gamma
1 flame angel
3 green chromis

Cuc
1 algae blenny
12 hermit crabs
7 turbo snails
2 cleaner shrimp

"pincushion" urchin--they are small and they do munch on your corraline--in now way to they eat it or bull doze everything over like their big brothers

[Aquarist007]

this site is great for quick identifications and a few words of caution etc:

http://www.melevsreef.com/id/crawls.html

[Norward]

Ricky, let the fish issue go. You did start out fast but you are stabilizing your tank and watching your parameters. Fight the impulse to add for fish for awhile. My skimmer does little more than leave a film on the sides and greenish water. I may hold off on pincushion urchins, as I am just now starting to get good coraline growth. They might keep it off the glass though!

[Ricky1066]

Oh Yes 1005 NO more fish that is why I was asking about cuc if the fish are maybe too much I thought I might need a bit more cleaners But thanks on th epincushion urchin I think my kids will love you

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11989876#post11989876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Norward
Ricky, let the fish issue go. You did start out fast but you are stabilizing your tank and watching your parameters. Fight the impulse to add for fish for awhile. My skimmer does little more than leave a film on the sides and greenish water. I may hold off on pincushion urchins, as I am just now starting to get good coraline growth. They might keep it off the glass though!

gee Ricky I think I have read and heard these wise words presented to you before:D

good one Norward

[Ricky1066]

So too clarify the urchin will eat my nice purple algae?
SO I don't want that .

and yes Captn You have heard that Iam not adding any fish I am good for now Just looking into things that will not add to the bioload(cuc.crab,MAybe urchin)

[kevin2000]

My 02

So long as your not adding extra food into your tank to feed your CUC then most would say they are not part of the bio load equation.

Your CUC should be based on the needs of your particular tank ... normally dictated by the age and amt of algae in your tank. New tanks like yours don't need a large cleanup crew.

If you don't have algae issues .. then I would hold off and add CUC as necessary. Also understand that different snails eat different things and diversity is often more important than quantity.

Most new aquarist overfeed their fish and cutting back on food may provide for a healthier tank and more bang for the buck than a larger CUC.

A new tank isn't a great place to put a pincushion urchin .. one of their main food staples is coraline algae and new tanks generally don't have enough to keep them happy. Further .. most new aquarist seem desperate to try and get coraline to grow.

Good luck.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11989951#post11989951 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ricky1066
So too clarify the urchin will eat my nice purple algae?
SO I don't want that .

and yes Captn You have heard that Iam not adding any fish I am good for now Just looking into things that will not add to the bioload(cuc.crab,MAybe urchin)

yeah--your listening:lol: :rollface: :lol:

yes, that is the draw back with urchins

check the link I posted above --look at the brittle and the serpant starfish--they would be suitable

[Aquarist007]

ricky--I've got just the invert for you
a sea apple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_apple LOL

(this is a joke --I am not serious folks)

[Norward]

So Kevin, if I've been up and running for a year and have coraline starting to "spot" my glass, would a PU be a good addition for cleaning the glass (and variety)? I wouldn't want it to starve nor would I want it to curb the coloration of my rock. Having just added the firefish, I think I will just sit and watch for awhile and keep an eye out for a porcelain crab.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11990057#post11990057 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Norward
So Kevin, if I've been up and running for a year and have coraline starting to "spot" my glass, would a PU be a good addition for cleaning the glass (and variety)? I wouldn't want it to starve nor would I want it to curb the coloration of my rock.


sorry I'm not Kevin but I can answer that
unfortunately it will do both--eat corraline off the glass and off the rock---darn I wish we could train them just to eat it off the glass--they do a great job

in all fairness to the pc--I have three in my tank---and they haven't made that much difference to the amount of corraline on the rock work. it's not like you wake up some day in the morning and all the corraline has gone:eek2: :lol:

[Norward]

Thanks for the followup Cap'n! I kinda figured that it wasn't an all or none with the coraline. If we could train them, think of what they could do for us in the tank, LOL! As above, maybe I'll just sit and watch the tank for awhile. My next expense should be an RO/DI unit for the laundry sink anyway, as I currently buy 7g every couple of weeks from the LFS for .50-.65/g. Including gas, it would pay for itself in a year.

[otrlynn]

Ricky, when I dump my skimmer cup, it ranges from medium green water to dark green/brown. I've never dumped anything like "sludge". There is some "sludgy" build up on the "cone" I need to wipe off. It sounds like your skimmer is working.