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View Full Version : Why I would rather pay $25/polyp, than 10 cents a polyp.


AussieLord
03/02/2008, 09:57 AM
I guess I have to rant, since I constantly see this topic come up, and I would rather not ruin another thread. I read plenty of forums, where people complain about raising the price per polyp on zoanthids. But, I feel that have good opposing opinions for my reasoning. I have three reasonings behind my opinion. It makes it a lot motivating to grow things, to help compensate the electric bill. It also motivates a reefer to propagate, rather than buy more from the LFS. It also excites a lot of the people that have funner collecting the unattainables, rather just buying whatever is pretty

I would much rather collect zoanthids now that go for 25 dollars a polyp than 10 cents a polyp anyday. I follow what is rare, because it is demand in the consumer world. When the frag grows out another polyp. I have just doubled what my colony is worth. The reason why I like this because, it makes my husbandry skills a lot more rewarding. On the other hand, if I were to begin with a colony of 100 polyps that costs me 25 dollars. I would have to grow another 100 polyps in order to sell the frag for the price I paid for this colony. So, why would I even waste my time selling such a huge colony that makes such a fine addition to my reef; that I put so much time into growing, for next to nothing?

Secondly it I go a LFS buy nice soloman island colony for 25-50 dollars. I have just taken a nice chunk for the ocean for that 25-50 dollars. Am I motivating wild collecting, and importing? Yes! Now if I were to use that same 25-50 dollars, and buy a one or two polyp frag from another reefer who has some unattainables. Am I motivating propagation? Yes! I think what Tyree has done for this hobby, has been a great step foward in propagation. It motivates the reefer to spend that same equviliant of money on something that was propagated. It is also a lot easier to continue keeping up with the demand, because we are paying 25-50 dollars for one polyp.

Lastly, I think zoaid is been other great addition to the zoanthid world. When at a frag swap, I am tired of people explaining color of zoanthid. You hear.. Its got a a blue rim, red inner rim, and purple on the mouth. You get it home, and the zoanthids is basically brown. With the other traits only predominately showing. Now, if someone says I got gorilla nipples, you know you are buying just a common zoanthid. This also now allows for more unattainable things to become avaliable to everyone. I know a lot of people say that people of zoaid.com jack up prices on zoanthids. But, eagle eye zoanthids, radioactive dragon eyes, and gorilla nipples are still worth nothing. On the other hand, picture blain perun importing a ppe colony for the wild. If he were not able charge 50/polyp, a wide variety of people would not be able to get a hold of the same coral. It he would just sold the colony for 300-400 dollars. One reefer would have bought it, and probably have kept it, and it may or may not have died in a their tank in a year or two. Their is a good probability of the colony depleting in just their reef, and we might have never seen this coral again.

AussieLord
03/02/2008, 10:02 AM
I would likely like to add, that by buying imported colonies from the LFS only gives fire to all the importers, that constantly take from the reef. We all know we cannot grow our corals at rate to keep up with the prices at the LFS. So, how are we ever going to turn our hobby into a propagation hobby, without people like tyree?

Btw, I just thought this would make for an interesting conversation on one thread, instead of everyone trying to start this conversation, everytime a zoa price thread comes up.

ianiwane
03/02/2008, 10:20 AM
But who says this hobby is about making money. You should get whatever you want b/c you like it, not b/c of how much it costs.

AussieLord
03/02/2008, 10:29 AM
Im not trying to say it is. But, it makes this hobby more rewarding knowing that selling some frags can help keep up with that electric bill. A lot of people end up getting out of the hobby, because the maintaining costs are just too overwelming. I would never try to turn my tank, into a profitable business. I got a regular job that pays my bill. But, sometimes it makes me think twice about keeping a tank, considering how much money I dump into my tank knowing it will never come back. It really can be a rich man's hobby, if you don't stick with the bare mininum basics.

audio101
03/02/2008, 11:20 AM
Huh?

Makes no sense, but whatever...

wrasseguy2
03/02/2008, 12:32 PM
well you keep collecting your polyps at $25 per...i for one think it is just crazy to pay that price and won't do it and i can get the same stuff that i see others with for alot cheaper

MUCHO REEF
03/02/2008, 01:59 PM
"I just thought this would make for an interesting conversation on one thread, instead of everyone trying to start this conversation, everytime a zoa price thread comes up"

I agree with you 100 % AussieLord, and I'm glad you posted this.

LoudProudNPunk
03/02/2008, 09:00 PM
25 dollar per polyp promotes people fragging their 2 polyp frags. Which i think is ridiculous.

bradford
03/03/2008, 10:38 AM
Theres nothing wrong with making a little extra money on the side. There is obviously a market for 20$ polyps so whats wrong with buying and selling them. To each their own. If your a collector then collect, if you just like the colorful common zoanthids then just buy those. I don't see how this has become an argument, why can't reefers just worry about themselves. I would understand the argument if it was cruel or environmentally harmful to prop them but it is the opposite. But if someone wants to pay 20$/polyp that is his/her right

Pufferpunk
03/03/2008, 11:06 AM
I like having "expensive" polyps--more to trade with. I feel guilty charging locals what I paid but they are willing to trade good stuff for them.

audio101
03/03/2008, 11:08 AM
They aren't worth $25 in the first place and therefore shouldn't be resold at that same price. Luckily most local reefers I know aren't greedy and will offer good deals.

bradford
03/03/2008, 11:41 AM
things are "worth" what people pay for them. As soon as people stop paying such a premium, which i think eventually will happen, the price will fall.

flyyyguy
03/03/2008, 12:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11997494#post11997494 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bradford
Theres nothing wrong with making a little extra money on the side. There is obviously a market for 20$ polyps so whats wrong with buying and selling them. To each their own. If your a collector then collect, if you just like the colorful common zoanthids then just buy those. I don't see how this has become an argument, why can't reefers just worry about themselves. I would understand the argument if it was cruel or environmentally harmful to prop them but it is the opposite. But if someone wants to pay 20$/polyp that is his/her right

Amen.

There seem to be a few people who get this chip on their shoulder about it this pricing hting. These are at times the same people who also claim they can get these same polyps for 1/4 or less than I can.
Thre is nothing I personally can do about these prices short of quit doing what I love...collecting.

Sure, I can trade for things and eliminate the monetary value altogether(kind of....but the trading ammunition based on market value is still monetary value in a sense). But I simply cant get them cheaper anywhere. There are no reefers I know of within a three hour drive of me who have anything Im interested in to trade for, nor does the one LFS within this same distance have anything very often I want and when he does, he wants 4 times as much as some of you guys seem to be paying at your lfs.

Therefore I have no choice but to pay these godawful prices fopr the polyps I cant find in trades. When I resell them I am the evil rapist that will charge near what I paid for these polyps, although I will grossly miscount polyps and throw in freebies when I do. I have as impeccable of feedback as you will ever read and I will gladly pay these same market prices to others with similar impeccable feedback. And there are lots of us on this board who can say the same. Its wonderful that RC is such a overall safe place to buy sell and trade.

im a collector. sure I like bargains, but having what I want supercedes pennypinching every time as for me personally, I dont have the resources to do it any other way

bradford
03/03/2008, 09:12 PM
Thats a shame that you get flak flyyyguy, I have never personally dealt with you but you seem like a very fair and responsible seller. I was reading in another post and the Poster which was "MuchoReef" i believe, stole the words out of my mouth when he said reefkeeping is about being unique and a individual.

flyyyguy
03/03/2008, 09:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12002967#post12002967 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bradford
Thats a shame that you get flak flyyyguy, I have never personally dealt with you but you seem like a very fair and responsible seller. I was reading in another post and the Poster which was "MuchoReef" i believe, stole the words out of my mouth when he said reefkeeping is about being unique and a individual.


flak?? I dont get flak. I was just commenting on the comments. its all good and even if I did get flak....im not that fragile nor worried about how I myself conduct sales and trades. :)

I would however LOVE to see one of these people who is so down on these overpriced polyps, go to the classified forums here, and post 100 of their most prized polyps for $50 or $100.

If everyone down on it actually did that, then everyone from the hobbyist to the retailer would have no choice but to start pricing these things more reasonably.

For some odd reason I have never seen a polyps for sale (note NICE polyps) post like that before. Lets see it guys.

pondy
03/04/2008, 06:16 AM
I too like was said above, have a hard time charging the locals an outstanding price for prized polyps. I Think I do this because I want to see the hobby grow and if I dont help some one out then well guess what they are going to do??? My guess is there are going to order from some pet store that got it from a dealer that got it from the reef. Well, saying this, on line, I will let people decide what they want to pay for the things that I have. Nothing really rare, but some nice colors. And I to have found some of my favorite polyps from a LFS that has no business having anything out side of a rat. Its great when they dont know what they have and you can buy it and propigate it and help others out. I am huge into buy what I like, but the kicker is what will the pocket book afford.

crookedantler
03/04/2008, 11:19 AM
Supply and demand.I shop around and find the cheapest price with the quality I want.If I can afford it,I buy it.Something is only "worth" what someone will actually pay for it.If you see NG's selling for $30 a polyp,then they are "worth" $30 a polyp to those who bought them.If they are not "worth" $30 a polyp to you,then you don't have one,or you find it cheaper.

seapug
03/04/2008, 12:41 PM
I love Zoas and will admit to having paid $10/polyp for orange bam bams because I think they are beautiful and could not find them anywhere else. The silliness comes from people paying top dollar for something just because it's expensive so they assume its "rare," not because they find it particularly attractive. Some people get more enjoyment from pointing out what they paid for something than how beautiful they personally think it is.

There's also the issue of the simple fact that the appearance of many Zoas changes depending on a tank's lighting, so one person's $25 polyp might look like a turd in someone else's tank. Also, when people select by price, they often overlook many "diamonds in the rough" that may turn out be really fantastic varieties with a little care. For example I've picked up a rocks from stores for $5 that had a few rather boring looking polyps on them that have turned out to be things I've never seen anywhere else-- even on Zoaid.com. For example, the colony in my avatar was just some random thing I picked up for $10 from a local store, but I've received 5 pm's in the past week from people asking me what "kind" it is and how much I paid and where I got it, etc, etc. It's cool that people like it, but the "name" and "price" hysteria is kinda funny. If I wasn't so honest, I could easily call it "Christmas Nipples" and claim I imported it from the Christmas Islands where it was found growing in a shark den where 3 divers were killed trying to get it for me. I'd be happy to frag it for $40/polyp. As soon as someone bites I've managed to create a new zoa hysteria based on a complete lie. That's what people need to be careful of.

wrasseguy2
03/04/2008, 12:52 PM
[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12007767#post12007767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seapug
There's also the issue of the simple fact that the appearance of many Zoas changes depending on a tank's lighting, so one person's $25 polyp might look like a turd in someone else's tank. Also, when people select by price, they often overlook many "diamonds in the rough" that may turn out be really fantastic varieties with a little care.



well said..i have found some really nice polyps that were very cheap and did not look the best at the store but after a little tlc they are some of my favorites

bradford
03/04/2008, 01:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12007767#post12007767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seapug

T For example, the colony in my avatar was just some random thing I picked up for $10 from a local store, but I've received 5 pm's in the past week from people asking me what "kind" it is and how much I paid and where I got it, etc, etc. It's cool that people like it, but the "name" and "price" hysteria is kinda funny. If I wasn't so honest, I could easily call it "Christmas Nipples" and claim I imported it from the Christmas Islands where it was found growing in a shark den where 3 divers were killed trying to get it for me. I'd be happy to frag it for $40/polyp. As soon as someone bites I've managed to create a new zoa hysteria based on a complete lie. That's what people need to be careful of.
LOL I just spit my coffee out on my keyboard, that was funny! I do see a over ambitious market of buyers who are paying to much for a hot item. I liken it to the tech boom of the early 2000's when people were paying insane prices for stocks in companies who had .com at the end without really looking into what the company was about and what their financials looked like. It was the hot thing to have so prices went up and people paid for it. But eventually the market worked itself out and the prices fell down. Which i believe will be the case here.

flyyyguy
03/04/2008, 01:33 PM
I think you are selling yourself short. Bloodshed is worth at LEAST $50 a polyp........

seapug
03/04/2008, 01:37 PM
No they are Christmas Nipples, not Bloodshed, dammit! Bloodsheds are collected 50 feet away at the entrance of the Kraken cave and have 2% darker green tips on the tentacles.

wrasseguy2
03/04/2008, 01:49 PM
no i have the bloodsheds..well true bloodsheds..and they are $65 per polyp

flyyyguy
03/04/2008, 01:51 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12008308#post12008308 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by wrasseguy2
no i have the bloodsheds..well true bloodsheds..and they are $65 per polyp
if you dont have a picture of a corpse to go with it....they arent TRUE

cwegescheide
03/04/2008, 02:07 PM
Several years ago I bought the Tyree green sarcophyton for a very high price. Over the last couple years I have fragged it many times for people and charged about 1/4 what I paid for it. I've more than made my money back. I've done this with numerous corals. I like large colonies though. I hate to frag anything I don't feel like I have to because its getting just too darn big. I don't look at a coral and think to myself if I cut it up into a million pieces I could have a small fortune sitting there. I've got many corals that are worth quite a bit as frags. I'd prefer to look at a big beautiful coral.

Chris

hunkafish
03/04/2008, 02:10 PM
Supply and demand, capitalism, desire, compulsive personality's that reefers posses. All used to leverage those pieces of Green cloth/paper from are hands. How bad do you want them, we will find out, we have ways, you know! Some people have to much money, others not enough. Rare corals arn't rare after enough people get them. so wait, keep a list of those that have them and wait, eventually there back at 5-10 bucks or wait till they go to dinner break in break of a piece and throw in a small crab to blame it on LOL

nalbar
03/04/2008, 02:32 PM
There is nothing 'wrong' with paying whatever an asking price is, if it gets you what you want.

But what bothers many about the price per polyp is how it leads into so many people wanting what THEY have to be unique. So the naming starts to get..... well, silly. Fly, wrasse, and sea made the point in the few posts right above with their satirical posts.

Pricing, by itself is not a big deal. Pay what you want. Naming, by itself is not a big deal. Call them what you want. But in a strange way the two have become symbiotic, each feeding on the other until an ugly marketing monster has been created.

So the items lose value for what they ARE (living creatures), and only are 'valuable' for what someone can get for them. Then stuff is not allowed to 'grow in', but is placed on discs on the sand so they can be easily fragged.

This all has a strange consequence, in that in trying to buy something 'unique', a tank is created that is no such thing. It's just a rack system that looks pretty much like a hundred other systems.

And it's called a 'reef tank'.


That bothers some people.




nalbar

Agu
03/04/2008, 09:33 PM
I am not defined by what I pay for corals. My tank is not judged by the dollar amount spent buying corals marketed by people preying on the naive.

BTW, You need to check out my "Inna godda davida" and "puked up pizza" corals, they're LE to my tank and awesome. They're so LE that they're only in my tank.

:smokin:

flyyyguy
03/04/2008, 09:42 PM
puked up pizza in coral form could actually be quite a beautiful thing I think... I wanna see it

Pufferpunk
03/04/2008, 11:23 PM
OMG, I totally forgot they were living creatures--I thought I was painting a picture!

LoudProudNPunk
03/05/2008, 12:16 AM
most my corals are plastic, they look better that way, and are easier to keep.

MikeCentore
03/05/2008, 03:20 PM
I totally agree with buying propagated corals. We are depleting our oceans too quickly. The way I look at it, for every propagated piece I buy another coral gets to stay in the ocean.

capture
03/05/2008, 04:33 PM
nalbar basically said what i had wished to write. it will come back around when the market is saturated and no one wants to buy that high. all the prop tanks will be full with not many places to sell to. then the cycle will start over.
i have way more to say on this topic but i should spend my time on a paper i should write for class.

second_decimal
03/05/2008, 11:43 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12007767#post12007767 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by seapug
could easily call it "Christmas Nipples" and claim I imported it from the Christmas Islands where it was found growing in a shark den where 3 divers were killed trying to get it for me. I'd be happy to frag it for $40/polyp. .

wow... pm sent. how many polyps are you selling?

http://smiles2k.net/smiles/big_smiles/super_smilies007.gif

seapug
03/06/2008, 01:52 PM
I just checked with my zoa market analysts and the price has now jumped to $56.47/per polyp. Sorry, these things are a precious commodity like oil.

zoanthidtoxins
03/06/2008, 06:52 PM
In evrey hobby there is a rarity to things and those rare aspects to that particular hobby usually cost more, it is how hobbies in a sense become more fun and proftable for evreyone. If evreything in the world was sold at what its worth no one would bother to supply products for hobbies or anything for that matter.

seapug
03/06/2008, 07:39 PM
That's why my Christmas Nipples are a steal at $62.00/polyp-- that's right, the price just went up again...sorry I have no control over these market forces! You should have ordered some earlier when they were only $56.47/polyp.

flyyyguy
03/06/2008, 07:41 PM
I did. You never responded to my PM

seapug
03/06/2008, 07:48 PM
Sorry flyyguy, I was on the phone with my broker. He was telling me about a mysterious whirlpool that has developed over the shark den where the Christmas 'Nips are collected. Looks like I have the ONLY ones that will ever be collected from there. Quite a shame that the price on them will not be coming down anytime soon. Shucks!

bradford
03/06/2008, 11:07 PM
I dont know if monopolies on zoas are legal. You could be forced by the zoa exchange commision to sell your C/Mas Nips to other sellers

Pufferpunk
03/06/2008, 11:34 PM
Please put me down for 10 of those, before the price goes up again. Does it rise in conjunction with the price of oil?

seapug
03/07/2008, 10:00 AM
The price at any given time is determined by the price of a barrel of oil divided by the barometric pressure over Salinas, Kansas then that figure is multiplied by 3.93. Like I said, it's very complicated and I have absolutely no control over it.

Pufferpunk
03/07/2008, 10:10 AM
That makse sense... bump my order up to 11 polyps then.

MUCHO REEF
03/07/2008, 10:33 AM
After 3 days off topic, I think it might be time to put AussieLord's thread back on topic with all due respect to him.

Pufferpunk
03/07/2008, 10:39 AM
What was that topic again? I think we wore it out...

MUCHO REEF
03/07/2008, 10:41 AM
It was a polite request.

It's on page 1

Pufferpunk
03/07/2008, 11:14 AM
Sorry...

MUCHO REEF
03/07/2008, 11:20 AM
For what, there's no need.

OK, now I'm off topic, LOL, LOL.

Sorry

seapug
03/07/2008, 12:14 PM
ok, sorry....humor over. Let's get back to the furrowed brow, tooth grinding discussion.

Skeptic_07
03/07/2008, 01:38 PM
i'lll bring us back on track here.. I have to disagree with the OP because these prices are out of control and it seems like everyone selling zoos online is looking to rip people off.

After paying $200 for about 20 polyps (one NG, 5 AOG which didnt make it, 5 stardust palys and 10 tubbs) i have to say that paying THAT much for zoos is not worth it to me when i can go to my lfs and find average zoos (EE, fire and ice, gb packers, safecrackers, dragon eyes, etc..) that are still really colorful and cool looking and have bright colors and i can get a small colony of 25 or 50 polyps for $26 or $33 bucks. Last week i scored 5 zoo frags of over 20 polyps each (one was green bay packers which someone is currently selling for $10 per polyp in the selling forum which sickens me) and a small yuma for less than what i paid for those 20 polyps i spoke about above. I might go for "high-end" zoos again but only if i see something that i really like or want and getting a good deal on. Thats the only way it would even make any sense. IMO $40 for ONE nuclear green polyp is a total rip when i can get 50 or so of those 'radioactive dragon eyes' or those green with brown skirt zoos for $26. not saying they are the same thing, the nucs have really nice bright lime green but i mean come ON! $40? really? for something the size of a pencil eraser? i'll pass...

jason214
03/07/2008, 02:42 PM
i'm sorry its a plant and they will grow back if you let them, we can buy frags w/o paying rediculous prices. I'm sorry i live by my self i work my butt off literally 50+ hours a week just to get by. I love my sw tank and would die for those nice acans or florida rics but that is a distant distant dream. Thats BS, its a plant, heck its even illegal for me to go and frag these things from the wild w/o a license. It will grow more to replace, not that i would but.... I understand prices on rare rare rare stuff but comeon, Yall just need to jump off this i'm rich so i can buy prettier stuff than you train and let prices go to where they belong so every one can afford to enjoy what they love from this hobby

flyyyguy
03/07/2008, 02:46 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12035325#post12035325 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jason214
i'm sorry its a plant


its an animal ;)

seapug
03/07/2008, 04:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12035365#post12035365 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by flyyyguy
its an animal ;)

I....I....I am speechless.

FishyMel
03/08/2008, 06:54 PM
Anyone who is interested in "Christmas nipples" might also be very interested in the "easter nipples" I currently have available. I'm sorry I don't have any pictures on hand but all you need to know is they are very rare from Easter Island and very expensive ($73.96 per polyp), that info even though it is sight unseen should be good enough for a purchase for any experienced reefer.

Just send me a pm, and I'll make sure to ship them right away.

Pufferpunk
03/09/2008, 12:17 AM
What's that next to the puffer?

audio101
03/09/2008, 12:48 AM
Check this out, http://ultimatefrags.com/coralinfo.php?ID=19#coral is selling these (legion of doom) for $29 a polyp, but I just bought a 12+ polyp frag of them for $50 from a different site. Sites like that is what ruins this hobby, it's a complete rip off.

FishyMel
03/09/2008, 01:39 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12046309#post12046309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Pufferpunk
What's that next to the puffer?

Brazillian Banana Moray eel (very rare and exotic lol:D)

Pufferpunk
03/09/2008, 03:12 PM
Looks like a plastic toy of some kind.

FishyMel
03/09/2008, 04:12 PM
Is that a good thing?

phil121
03/10/2008, 07:36 AM
Easter Nipples sound awesome. Hmm... But I can only afford $65 a polyp.

Sorry, it's pretty funny.

I gotta admit, it is more fun for me to find that amazing zoa or something locally at a good price than to pay a fortune online for one or two polyps. I recently bought some online but got a total of roughly 40 polyps at a price of about 4 bucks a polyp. Higher than I like but they were nice!!