Why was there a design change in the BK Supermarine 250?

[tbone28]

Klaus or Chris, I hope you can answer this!

BK has made a minor design change already. Notice that the interior cone now has an extension on it. This is the same extension Klaus puts on the SM200. Earlier SM250's only had the cone. Here's my SM250:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa205/terrylau828/DSCN3197.jpg

Here's an earlier SM250:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m259/kenettson1/DSCN0690.jpg

Here's an SM200 for comparison:

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/87379IMG_0667.jpg

[pryan002]

Is the extension a separate piece or part of the cone? Wondering if those of us who took the plunge early will be offered a retro fit? Anything up with the adjustment fitting on the pump other than the fact that it is yellow?

[pryan002]

Is the extension a separate piece or part of the cone? Wondering if those of us who took the plunge early will be offered a retro fit? Anything up with the adjustment fitting on the pump other than the fact that it is yellow?

[AquariumSpecialty]

We are working to get an answer on this. Klaus is working on a rather large project so it may be a few days.

by the way, we have the SM200's in stock now.

[tbone28]

pryann002- it's not separate. It's glued to the cone. I would wait until we hear from Klaus why this was done before you ask for a retro.

Scott - thanks

[Proline]

No Worries ,we should be able to ask for that piece for all the existing customers
I will ask Jason to call him today
Regards
Chris

[Proline]

Terry
Nice Skimmer ,finaly there
Chris

[tbone28]

Two more questions

Is there a reason the inlet on the pump is now yellow, and not red? Cosmetic-only reasons? Or functional?

With the drain submerged under water, does it create back pressure? On the Deluxe, the drain pipe can be angled above the water level

[kenettson1]

I am very interested in the tube extension questions as well. I have emailed proline off forum and await their response.

The water outlet is submerged and that does create a little back pressure but that's why water height has an impact on skimmer performance. If you keep the water height level the back pressure remains constant and is not an issue.

Remember the water in the skimmer body also creates back pressure. Taller skimmers with the same pump draw less air for that reason.

My guess is that the extension is to help eliminate microbubbles. Honestly, I see no reason to further reduce turbulance nor do I recognize any other flaws for that matter - but I don't manufacture skimmers so take that FWIW.

[kenettson1]

There are a couple things I'm glad I don't have.

1. Yellow adjustment valve - unless there is some practical reason for the change.
2. Engraved Lid

No offense tbone - just some user feedback.

[tbone28]

Mike,

No offense. I asked about the yellow, becaue I prefer the red. If given a choice of lids, I'd take the clean one, but I can live with the current one as well.

[AquariumSpecialty]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12094348#post12094348 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenettson1
I am very interested in the tube extension questions as well. I have emailed proline off forum and await their response.

The water outlet is submerged and that does create a little back pressure but that's why water height has an impact on skimmer performance. If you keep the water height level the back pressure remains constant and is not an issue.

Remember the water in the skimmer body also creates back pressure. Taller skimmers with the same pump draw less air for that reason.

My guess is that the extension is to help eliminate microbubbles. Honestly, I see no reason to further reduce turbulance nor do I recognize any other flaws for that matter - but I don't manufacture skimmers so take that FWIW.

I would tend to agree with you kenettson (haven't spoken to Klaus or Proline about this yet) regarding the micro bubbles. I haven't heard anyone mentioning issues with micro bubbles on the SM250 but Klaus seems to always be looking for ways to improve a product no matter how well it already works.

The extension (my educated guess) shouldn't have any impact on performance or the skimmer rating. We have a customer with 3 of them on a 1200 gallon aquarium and he loves these as is...no issues with micro bubbles.

Personally I wouldn't try to weldon an acrylic tube to the inner cone of the collection cup. Most likely The edge has been polished and if you weldon it to the flame polished edge the joint on the flame polished side will craze. You could use a different type of adhesive other than weldon but why do it if your skimmer is performing well. Just my 2 cents and I hope this helps put any concerns to bed.

[tbone28]

Scott, why do you think performance won't be impacted with the riser tube? Doesn't it reduce contact time by not utlizing the entire skimmer body above the cone?

[AquariumSpecialty]

Let's let Klaus answer this. I'm only theorizing.

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12095281#post12095281 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AquariumSpecialty

We have a customer with 3 of them on a 1200 gallon aquarium and he loves these as is...no issues with micro bubbles.


Does your customer have the skimmer with the extension?

[AquariumSpecialty]

no he does not...that was the point of the comment.

[tbone28]

i see. your initial comment confused me because you said the extension won't have impact on performance, then talke about your customer with the 3 skimmers, so it seemed like he had 3 skimmers with extension.

[AquariumSpecialty]

Sorry if that was confusing.

[Proline]

Klaus is back from Spain tomorrow ,he will let us know about this whole extension situation & why.
Regards
Chris

[tbone28]

Thanks, Chris. The extension is glued on. It is not a removable piece. Also, the bubble plate is not removable as it is in the Deluxe series, so a retrofit to existing owners might require a new body to be sent?

[kenettson1]

They could probably make one that just slides in. However, the conical piece as it is tapers in at the edge. Pretty nice work actually - looks very nice. You could make someting to slide right in it but it may look a little funny.

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12113928#post12113928 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Proline
Klaus is back from Spain tomorrow ,he will let us know about this whole extension situation & why.
Regards
Chris

Chris, any updates?

[Creetin]

Since your waiting for your skimmer to make some nog here ya go, I have been promising you some pics.
This is medium wet. Everytime i start to run mud i get impatient and raise the waterlevel. ;) Also this is shortly after feeding so the foam head is broken.
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/realcreetin/fish209.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/realcreetin/fish208.jpg

[tbone28]

Looks great! I love the contrast between the dirty interior nog and the ultra-clean outside of your skimmer. Did you dial in your skimmer like many other BK owners?

1) turn on pump and remove cup
2) keep opening the intake valve on the pump until water flows over the body's side with small, continuous bubbles
3) put cup back on, and adjust water level

I'm curious as to how many BK owners adjust the pump intake to the point where the black dots meet for the FIRST time (as the manual recommends). And how many owners turn the intake 1 or 2 additional full turns until the black dots line up again.

How did you do yours, Creetin?

[Proline]

"I love the contrast between the dirty interior nog and the ultra-clean outside of your skimmer"

Terry you are crazy,LOLOLOLOLOLOL
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING ABOUT THIS.
Chris

[Creetin]

I ran mine like that, But after 9 skimmers i can prettymuch just look at them to see if they are running the way i want.
Size of bubbles and breaking point is a good start. JMO
Mine is 4 turns out from all the way in. I am running a greater thruput, and skimming has actually gotten a little better. IMO
The way you have listed is a good way, If you have an eye for bubble size then its not nec you can adjust the way you want. IMO
Mine is quite diff from that as i adjust where i want for flow, and use the teliscopic standpipe, and wedgepipe to adjust around it.

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12121266#post12121266 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Proline
"I love the contrast between the dirty interior nog and the ultra-clean outside of your skimmer"

Terry you are crazy,LOLOLOLOLOLOL
I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING ABOUT THIS.
Chris

:D...was waiting for someone to comment on that!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12121296#post12121296 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin

Mine is 4 turns out from all the way in. I am running a greater thruput, and skimming has actually gotten a little better.

I'm still confused as to what happens to the air/water ratio as the nozzle is turned out. does water intake increase, while air input decreases? Or is it the other way around? Or does water intake increase, but air intake stays constant?

[Creetin]

The air stays constant as water thruput gets increased.
With that much into a skimmer ya kinda take better care of it.Now if i payed 500 for it i would not care as much. LOL

[tbone28]

LOL, I'm getting close, that's why I'm asking more detailed questions about setting it up :)

Hmmm, if airflow remains the same, then it makes sense to get more water into the mix. I might start off with 1 full turn of the nozzle

[Creetin]

With a higher water thruput then your skimmer runs the tank volume quicker, and the skimmer reacts faster. IMO
With it slower it has more contact time, and can get more stubborn dissovled protiens out.
Remember i have the 1500 not the 2000 so youre starting at a bigger thruput than i am so your results may be a little diff.

[tbone28]

gotcha. good point about the pumps. I better start at the recommended points, and work up if needed

[ksed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12121491#post12121491 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Creetin
The air stays constant as water thruput gets increased.
With that much into a skimmer ya kinda take better care of it.Now if i payed 500 for it i would not care as much. LOL
I was told that air input is in ratio to the amount of water input.
The more water that can be drawn in the more air can be drawn in as well.

[Creetin]

Well i had a flowmeter on and cranked her up till the cap came out and no increase in air.
One of you guys should try one out on a SM and see, But mine stays constant 60 scfh.

[ksed]

Thanks for your help!

[tbone28]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12123873#post12123873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ksed
I was told that air input is in ratio to the amount of water input.
The more water that can be drawn in the more air can be drawn in as well.

Now that you bring that up, I do recall the pump's sticker saying the air ranges from 1600-2000 lph. You may be right.

[kenettson1]

Any word on this from Klaus. This thread kinda got forgotten about or maybe it was answered on another forum.

[spreston]

When will the parts that were changed or added be available to the customers that have the original design?

How will the extension attach?

[Proline]

Kennettson
I have your contact ,I will contat you once they are in if you don't hear from me in 3 weeks,please send me a quick email.
Our shipment has been delayed a bit ,but it's comming & the parts for you is in there.
spreston
Please send me a quick email to
support@prolineaquatics.com
with your name ,ph# & address .
Regards
Chris

[kenettson1]

Thank you. So I guess we get the extension. Excellent service - much appreciated.

[tbone28]

Chris, how will the extension be retrofitted? I obviously don't need one, but curious as to the solution.

[spreston]

Chris-Information sent, thank you for the support.

Steve

[Klaus Jansen]

@Tbone28...

the new extension inside the BK SM 250 is not a imortant Update... thats only for reduce a little bit more the Microbubbles, if the nozzle is very strongly opened. In the normal operation the extension is not necessary.... Only for the Supermarines 200 is the extension important.

regards... Klaus

[tbone28]

Klaus, I have one of the newer SM250's that came with the extension from the factory. If the extension is not important, why do I have one?

[Klaus Jansen]

@tbone...
only for the Customers, where want skimming wet.... and so we want make the same Technical-Design. So what i say, : for the SM 200 is the extension very important, for the 250 and 300 not, or we want make in all Supermarines the same Design.... so i hope, you understand me ? Sorry, my english lenguage is not good enough for technical explanations

best regards.. Klaus