Decent LFSs in Appleton

[FEEDERFISH]

I will be up that way this weekend just post the name i can do the rest
Thanks

[MrSquid]

wait... hold on guys... I'll take this one...

:lol: :lmao: :lol2: :spin1: :fun4: :jester:

Um... er... ah..... there are none. :( Besides Petco & Pet Smart, there's "just" Just Pets. But it's not quite worth seeking out.

Your time would be better spent heading north and hitting the 2 stores in Green Bay. (Advanced Aquatics and Fish Unlimited)

[siropa]

my fishroom is a better petstore for frags than what you'll find in town :)

[customcolor]

i do most of my shopping online or trough the club now. just pets needs ........................................well im not happy with them any more. the petco in darboy(appleton) has ben doing better for me latly! the only time i will go to just pets is for feeder mice for my ball python and for Rods Food.
go to green bay!

[FEEDERFISH]

ok, thats pretty much sums it up...GB is just a little to far north
Thanks

[MrSquid]

Hop into your DeLorean and hit 88mph - go back to 1995 and come see me @ the Pet World that was in Appleton. I'll give ya some sweet deals. :D

[yaitisme]

[i]

:lol: :lmao: :lol2: :spin1: :fun4: :jester:
) [/B]

What he said.

[kesslerkid01]

I was in just pets on tuesday and it really is not worth the trip craig is not to be trusted in anything he say's he has told me several differnt lies about things and he is overpriced petco in darboy has treated us very well and if you go on tuesday when they gat there shipment in best selection also the manager is a huge reef guy several tanks 400 gallon at home marine biologist i think helped me out alot not much in store for inverts thou

[Pike614]

two words:
Live Aquaria

Even the stores in GB are severely overpriced, and no 14 day guarantee!

[MrSquid]

A reef guy / marine biologist at Petco? Hmm... something about that just seems a bit odd to me - but I'm kinda skeptic sometimes. ;) When I worked for Craig years ago he'd tell people once in a while that he had a marine biology degree.

[jmkarcz]

Look at your compass... if it looks anything like this....

<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/jmkarcz/Misc/?action=view&current=compass-shutterstock.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/jmkarcz/Misc/compass-shutterstock.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Your doing well....if not...


....your headed the....
<a href="http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/jmkarcz/Misc/?action=view&current=100_0404.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/jmkarcz/Misc/100_0404.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

(The sign has been down awhile... so pleased do not be alarmed...)

[Fishcrazy06]

My J Your really getting some long fingernails. There something we should know?

Eric

[RCS]

Unless you're into self-mutilation, for the most part I wouldn't bother.

[daddavis1]

Thanks J I thought you were bringing a problem to my attention.

[FEEDERFISH]

MrSquid that was a great line!, first I don't have enough road to get to 88, and I am waiting on my next under counter deal on plutonium, my time circuits are also a little screwy. If I get a chance to go back I am going for the Grays Sports almanac

[bigreef74]

ya I would stay away form just pets, his store is a pigs pen, and he's a dipSH!^ an a liar

[bigreef74]

also he runs copper in all his tanks all the time reefs and fish only. ask him to test the water in front of u. out of the coral tank and the fish only tanks

[Bri Guy]

No, actually he doesn't run copper in the coral tanks (they WOULD be dead) but he does run copper constantly in the fish tanks.

I go there for live food (bloodworms, crickets, and brineshrimp) and thats about all I ever buy there.

[bigreef74]

I bet you a frag he dose! it is very low but i know 2 people who worked for him. 1 is still their and 1 has left.

[Bri Guy]

:eek2: crazy man, good thing I never buy corals from there! :eek1:

I think we are starting to have some competition between us and GB for the "best" LFS owner :)

[gooch]

Give it a little while and the guys at Reefs Aquatics and Pet Emporium should blow them all away. But they need some time and support to get off the ground. It was really starting to shape up when I was there last.

[siropa]

it is too bad bev faust down in oshkosh still isn't in it. she would beat most of these guys hands down. if any of you old timers know who i'm talking about...

[PrisonCityReef]

Set up a tour for us Gooch! Maybe in a couple months once everyone's credit card has recovered from the DFS trip and your back is hopefully on the mend.


Siropa - What was the name of that place? Was it on Main street just a couple blocks South of the river? I remember when it was going out of business if I'm thinking of the same place.

[customcolor]

was that the Fish Bowl?

[siropa]

she had two shops originally in oshkosh. one on main st downtown and one in an old house on ohio st I believe. she had then consolidated both of those into one bigger location located near the river where ohio and witzel streets meet. The place was called The Aquarium Pet Shop. I don't know what happened to it, but most of her kids now run a shop called Aquarium Pets I think. if you like undergravel filters with your saltwater fish, the place is for you. Bev though was a piece of work. one mean B!TCH and those capitals were deserved.

[PrisonCityReef]

It's a shame that more shop owners don't get active in an online community like this. I can only imagine it would help them get some business.

I've seen some random posts on the MARS forums from folks in the industry that are involved in their club more. It seems like a good portion of the shop owners are a bit older and maybe just not used to using computers all that often? I can imagine the day to day operations of running a store can easily eat up 24 hours a day, they're not looking for much more to do.

Random ramblings from me. Is it time for a cocktail yet?

[ReeferAl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12145251#post12145251 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by siropa
it is too bad bev faust down in oshkosh still isn't in it. she would beat most of these guys hands down. if any of you old timers know who i'm talking about...

If that's the one I'm thinking of, there is now a store in Oshkosh run by her son and daughter. It's called Aquatic Pets, I believe. She has nothing to do with that new store. It's on Oregon and 7th if I remember right (or was it Ohio?).
I was at the old store her mother ran and I've been to the new. IMO, the new store definitely beats the old one.

Allen

[KevChem]

I think you mean Aquarium Pets? It is on 8th at Knapp. Big pole building on the NE corner.

For salt, I'd say they aren't too bad - one big tank of corals, one of the multiple-small-plastics-displays with hermits, shrimps, snails, some fish, etc, some big tanks with LR and fish, some small tanks with LR and fish, some anemones, etc. Jim has ordered things for me - easy to work with.

For FW, I'm a little more cautious. I was told they use salt in their FW tanks. They also carry the tattooed balloon mollies (yuk!). Lots of bright colored gravel in the bottom of the tanks and live plants consist of ceratophyllum (coontail) and occasionally java fern.

Kevin



<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12146168#post12146168 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReeferAl
If that's the one I'm thinking of, there is now a store in Oshkosh run by her son and daughter. It's called Aquatic Pets, I believe. She has nothing to do with that new store. It's on Oregon and 7th if I remember right (or was it Ohio?).
I was at the old store her mother ran and I've been to the new. IMO, the new store definitely beats the old one.

Allen

[siropa]

The one ran by her kids is sure better than her old places and they are pretty nice people. but they get stuck in the past as far as husbandry and such. pretty much par for shops around here.

[RCS]

one big tank of corals

One big tank of coral skeletons, you mean.

I offered to take care of their coral tank once for free and they turned me down. :rolleyes:

[siropa]

i'm not surprised. at worked at one of the mothers original shops for awhile so I know first hand some of the choices they make.

[gooch]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12145334#post12145334 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PrisonCityReef
Set up a tour for us Gooch! Maybe in a couple months once everyone's credit card has recovered from the DFS trip and your back is hopefully on the mend.


Back is better but I still have a long recovery ahead of me.

The July FVRC meeting will be at Reefs Aquatic & Pet Emporium.


You know the quality of livestock over the last ten years has really gone down. There was a time when you could order liverock and it was just that. Loaded with corals and plants. Stores use to stock it for fish that would eat only coral. That is not saying we don't see nice stuff in the hobby. The corals are probably better than they have ever been. But you sure do have to pay for it now. So I have a hard time when people say it was so much better years ago and the store owners have no clue today. Unfortunately it isn't the store owners not having a clue(some don't) it is that the food chain has changed. And for all the good the internet has done to advance the hobby it is also easier for the middleman to keep tabs on pricing. What I could get years ago for $30 wholesale some stores are paying double or more. I guess what I am saying is the hobby has changed so much so that I really wonder how well the stores of old would compare to the stores of today. I guess we won't know. It is probably like beating a dead horse. You can do it all you want but it wont change things.

AI for the longest time wasn't that bad a shop and JP wasn't the worst place I ever walked into either. But things change and unfortunately with these two not for the better. I have never had an issue with JP so I really can't say much about them. But it is hard to purchase something that doesn't look healthy. I am past the trying to save it mode in my life. I prefer to spend more and get the quality the first time.

[Aquabucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12145937#post12145937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PrisonCityReef
It's a shame that more shop owners don't get active in an online community like this. I can only imagine it would help them get some business.

Its against the RC user agreement and considered shilling.

What a lot of you don't realize is the pecking order from wholesalers these days makes it more difficult for shops in smaller metro areas like ours to get dibs on all the nice corals. It can be pretty tough at times.

[gooch]

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12145937#post12145937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PrisonCityReef
[B]It's a shame that more shop owners don't get active in an online community like this. I can only imagine it would help them get some business.

OH I believe they see this stuff. Believe me reef clubs for the main part are not always looked to highly on with the store owners. Some use it to thier advantage and some are just totally turned away by it.

I supported clubs when I was in business but it got increasingly hard to do. Just look at how many clubs are on the RC forums. Now imagine getting e-mails looking for donations from every one of them. Many clubs......Many not all just look at the what can you do for me and my club. They really care less about the business and rarely support the store after the donation. I use to donate a coral every month to WRS and gave 10% off every livestock purchase made by club members. Now for the most part they treated me well but when leadership changed they started wanting more and I couldn't give more and I dropped out of the club as a vendor. No hard feelings at all. But I lost over $80,000 trying to build a shop people wanted to go to. I realize my location and hours sucked and that lead to my failure but I also learned alot from my experience.

I know there is a local club that has a fish raffle every year. One year I donated a couple buckets of salt and a bunch of other stuff. It was only about $120 woth of stuff wholesale. It all sold, they got money from it. I didn't even get a Thank You from it. Not one dime of business(of course one of the higher ups was buddies with Jeff). Next raffle came up and they called for donations again. I politely declined but also made it known I would have at least liked a thank you for my donation the the auction the year before. I got a oh......thank you, can you donate again this year? My answer.......oh uhm no.

[Fishcrazy06]

Double post sorry

Eric

[Fishcrazy06]

I understand where your coming from 100 percent Gooch. I like to support local business's. Alot of people know the one shop I pretty much do support for my food and my fish. I would like to see more diversity. More choices. I am willing to pay a little extra. That takes into account the shipping. I have gotten some PM's from gooch and from what else has been posted on the new store coming to town I think they will have some great success. I am sure there will be some growing pains as with all new businesses. On the flip side you hear quite a bit from our board on which store to go to and which has this and that. One bonus for me from a store is someone who is willing to order you something. I prefer smaller fish ie juveniles. I also like to see a variety. Thats just my .02 worth though. I am eagerly waiting for the new store to open. The other thing that makes it hard for the stores I think is that we all trade and sell frags. Its hard to see the prices of the frags in stores when we are use to things being so reasonable. Granted they are normal run of the mill corals. I like getting different things!

Eric


Eric

[PrisonCityReef]

Many valid points Gooch.

I can't imagine it's easy to run a store for this hobby in which everyone has a fairly strong opinion of the right way to do things. Not to mention dry goods are basically overrun by the internet. No store can realistically stock any light setups unless they're part of a pre-built package deal. Well, maybe in the bigger metro areas, but that's pure speculation on my part...

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12141131#post12141131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by FEEDERFISH
GB is just a little to far north
Thanks
It's me!! :D



Anyways, I've been to all the stores in GB and Appleton, except for the new one (cuz well it's not there yet)... and as bad as the worst are,,, is still not as bad as one of ours!!! F&S fans, check this out.... http://www.wendysbluelagoon.com/articles/marine/2.html I can handle her slamming our club, but this is sad..... and if you've seen her store,,, you know what I'm talking about!.....

Needless to say, I do all my shopping either at F&S or Green Bay... (alot at Fish Unlimited)

[slug]

Sorry if this is a little off topic but does Just Pets carry Rod's food? I wanted to pick some up and they are listed on Rod's food website as carrying it.

[siropa]

2farNorth, that article is a pile of horse$hit. what propaganda.

[2farNorth]

Ya, it is bad there... the reef tank has more dead coral skeletons then rock... that and the whole thing about "Fragging and aquacultured is bad" and the "Captive bred fish is against nature" needless to say we don't shop there anymore.......


Oh, ya, sorry for the Off Topicness!!

[MrSquid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12147451#post12147451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ebrabender
I would like to see more diversity. More choices. I am willing to pay a little extra.

Unfortunately I believe that you (and the rest of us) are in the minority here. And sometimes having a store full of awesome (ie. pricier and more delicate) fish can almost be a detriment because people will want to keep those but may not be able to afford it, house it or keep it alive. Ultimately it's the store's ability to balance that mix of bread-and-butter and specialty that's key. (they should keep the REALLY cool stuff in a room behind a door that says "Your tank must by ____ months/years old for you to enter")

In our area, I'm afraid that the store of our dreams wouldn't last long UNLESS they have a killer sales staff that can educate the every-man on how to keep our salty friends alive in a way that seems FUN so that there'll get to be more reefers like us.

But unfortunately most people don't want to learn - they want this to be fun and easy and don't want it to become work. I received more than a few lectures from people because I'd dare to even just caution them on the number of fish they wanted, advise against a fish that'd die or be eaten in their tank, etc... In today's on-demand world it seems like too many people don't want to learn - they just want Nemo and friends (all of them) - and they want them tomorrow. This is a double-whammy for stores because for them to keep their lights they need to be able to teach people how to have long-term success AND teach them how to do it easily and cost effectively so their friends might want a tank AND ideally, try to get them to a point where they'll do so well that they'll maybe do another tank (more $$$!) - all while trying to keep their pricing competitive with the volume-buying big boxes and no/low-overhead 'net retailers.

All that being said, I'm completely jazzed about Reefs opening! I am going to happily travel up there to support them in hopes that they'll start as - and continue to be - the store we're hoping for. I'm excited for them to flip on their lights and swing that door open!

[MrSquid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148006#post12148006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slug
Sorry if this is a little off topic but does Just Pets carry Rod's food? I wanted to pick some up and they are listed on Rod's food website as carrying it.

Yep - they do. I see you're in Madison. Living Art either carries it now, or will be carrying it soon. That'd be a closer drive for ya. :D

[Fishcrazy06]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148006#post12148006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slug
Sorry if this is a little off topic but does Just Pets carry Rod's food? I wanted to pick some up and they are listed on Rod's food website as carrying it.

Living Art Aquarium on Madison's West side now carries Rods Food just so you know!

Eric

[MrSquid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148023#post12148023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by siropa
2farNorth, that article is a pile of horse$hit. what propaganda.

Never been to (or heard of) that store but it's pretty apparent that she's scrambling to protect her ***ets. Keeping stuff healthy takes time and money - money means overhead - overhead means higher prices - higher prices means customers start looking around to other places. So she's trying to do some damage control - cut off the head of the snake before it bites ya. But against DFS? Good luck on that one. ;)

But on the flip side, what business doesn't badmouth competition?

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148203#post12148203 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MrSquid

But on the flip side, what business doesn't badmouth competition?
I agree! That's nature!!
But if your ever up this far.... it is a site to see....


Off topic again, but is there anyone in GB that carries Rods?

[slug]

Hmm I was in Living Art last week and they didn't have any. And the last time I called them and they told me they had something in stock I drove all the way over there, 45 minutes from where I live, and they didn't have it and to top it off I had to listen to insanely bad reggae music in the shop. Kinda makes me not want to go there anymore.

My mom lives in Neenah so I'm in your area a lot.

[customcolor]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148023#post12148023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by siropa
2farNorth, that article is a pile of horse$hit. what propaganda.
i agree!!!
why did she hammer the 14 day garentee? does she garentee for longer? i realy dont think so. heck you would be lucky to get any garentee for any salty fish around. heres a quote

"Sure, these places will guarantee live delivery or your money back, and guarantee that your order will stay alive for at least 14 days. Then what? After 14 days you'll have to order again if your animal doesn't make it after 14 days and then you'll have to put in an extra $34.99 or more plus the cost of the animal in question"
Written by Wendy Legeret
Copyright © Wendy's Blue Lagoon

[MrSquid]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148501#post12148501 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slug
Hmm I was in Living Art last week and they didn't have any. And the last time I called them and they told me they had something in stock I drove all the way over there, 45 minutes from where I live, and they didn't have it and to top it off I had to listen to insanely bad reggae music in the shop. Kinda makes me not want to go there anymore.

My mom lives in Neenah so I'm in your area a lot.

Well, for what it's worth, this was posted in the Living Art forum on the MARS site last Saturday. If everyone has been waiting for it, you may want to call first and see if they're sold out. :)

We are proud to offer Rod's Reef.
This is an amazing frozen food consisting of tons of different beneficial ingredients and nutrients.
Great for corals, fish, and other invertebrates. This is the stuff that everyones been waiting for.
$20/package or 3 packs for $50

[Fishcrazy06]

Not sure if your a member of MARS or not but Paul posted I think it was last week that they just started to carry Rods. In defense of Living Art Paul has been making some great strides in the right direction in my opinon.


Eric

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12148533#post12148533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by customcolor
i agree!!!
why did she hammer the 14 day garentee? does she garentee for longer? i realy dont think so. heck you would be lucky to get any garentee for any salty fish around.

Nope no guarantee, actually I got a lawnmower blennie from her a couple years ago, it didn't make it 24 hours.... she just told me my PH and Salinity was too high - (8.1 ph, and 1.025 sal.) Needless to say.. the next week I ordered from F&S!

kinda like "there is no actual guarantee that your order will arrive safely and alive" -- I guess she doesn't know about the "arrive alive stay alive risk free guarantee"

Then the part that she says - "We safely pack your animal in a plastic bag of aquarium water, add a special substance for long journeys over five miles out of town" --- then the next paragraph she says about online fish --- "These animals are generally sent with a relaxation agent in the water that can sometimes cause them to stay in that state for good, therefore, the animal will never "awaken" again"

Boy I can go on for days.... Either way, I'm looking forward to my next trip to GB, Appleton or Rhinelander!! :D

[ReeferAl]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12146229#post12146229 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KevChem
I think you mean Aquarium Pets? It is on 8th at Knapp. Big pole building on the NE corner.
Kevin

Yes, that's the place. I think it was the old store that was on Oregon now that I think about it.

Like I said, I think they are at least as good as any other area stores, including those in GB, IMO. I'm anxious to see the new store in GB though. I agree with MrSquid- I think it is a tough business to be in, especially in an area like ours. I'm not sure that a store that does it "right" would be able to make ends meet.

Unfortunately, in the end the stores that survive will not necessarily be the best but will be those that are the most profitable.

Allen

[kiowascout]

Since when did a yellow tang and a cleaner shrimp become incompatible?

[kesslerkid01]

where is there a new store in gb???

[RCS]

OMG, I think I love this Wendy lady! Does she wear a tinfoil hat and run around yelling "they're after me! They're after me!" as well?

"sometimes these tanks will hold fifty to one hundred species or more at a time."

Um...hmmm. 50-100 species in one tank? Really?? Pretty sure there is maybe 3-4 species in any tank we saw at F&S last weekend.

"parasites like ich are not contagious to other fish"

Phew, for a second there I thought ich was spread from fish to fish!

"ich will attack the fish from the inside out"

Inside out? Ich is an external parasite...or so I thought. Then again, I'm not a marine biologist.

"As for seeing if the fish you want is eating, you can't see that it is in an online store! "

Stomach already too full of ich, perchance?

"and myself, Wendy Legeret, who knows what she is doing. If you have a question, I am not reading the answer from a book or a guide book. I can let you know if a Yellow Tang is compatible with let's say a Cleaner Shrimp, in this case, it isn't. "

Thank God she's such a wealth of knowledge! Books are for people who buy fish online anyway.

"and place them in a paper bag to keep your animal warm."

Because we all know the insulating properties of paper.

And my favorite line, which really sums up what this place sounds like:

"Here at Wendy's Blue Lagoon, we are so different!"

Different, indeed. :lol:

[customcolor]

you pointed out all the good parts!!!!!!

boy she is smart:hmm4:

[gooch]

ICH, I believe is an internal parasite. That is why fish should be quarantined even after it has been quarantined at the store. All fish can get ich and it is brought on by stress alot of times. Moving fish from tank to tank and chasing them around, shipping them ect is very stressfull. When I would try to catch fish for customers many times if I could I would catch them bare handed as it was less stressfull than chasing them with nets. If I chased them too long I would stop, let the fish calm down and try again later. Yes, ich shows on the outside after a short time. It is easier fought off by a fish with a healthy immune system, a fish that is eating stands a stronger chance of kicking ich. All fish are capable of having ich. Most stores will have UV sterilizers which does help kill the free floating parasite and often ich won't show up until in your tank a day or two after the purchase. Don't ask me where I read this or got this information from but I do believe it. I never read this ladies article above and do not plan to. So I believe a fish should be purchased seen and made to feed before being purchased in most cases. When I go to a store to look for fish there are certain things I look for. I am pretty good at picking out good fish. I learned the hard way. I have bought fish online with mixed results as well as lfs. Certain fish I won't buy online. Others I have to see before I buy. Others I just don't buy period.

Now the referernce to hundreds of fish being kept in tanks can still hold true at some wholesalers. I don't know if it still happens a lot but it is not something I doubt doesn't happen with some fish. I have heard many horror stories about some distributers. But that being said most distibuters have large quantities only for a day or two at the most. They send out stock lists before they even have the fish. Often times rebagging fish as soon as they come in.

The fish you see at the divers den are for the most part premium species. They do have some fish that ship direct from wholesalers. I am sure they are quality wholesalers. In fact I used some of the same wholesalers they did when I was a shop. And I know they use one of my old wholesalers now.

I had a blue hippo tang that would get ich if I didn't feed it for a day or two. I would say it got ich about once or twice a year over the seven plus years I had the fish until I gave it away.(It is still alive today). I never once treated any of my tanks for ich with medication. As long as the fish is eating you can fight off ich. I would grind up some fresh ginger root and mix it in with the food. I would also soak the food in the ginger juice. IMO the fish liked it better than food soaked in garlic. I didn't save every fish with this method but I found that by adding it to the food a couple times a week and putting the juice in the the tank water it "seemed" to help. I have no proof of that as I am not someone who writes things down. But my observations were more positive than with garlic. And the ginger root smelled awesome and brought on a feeding frenzy with certain fish.

If you are still reading this mess I do have to state for the record that fish are not my thing. I know very little about fish and do not claim to be an expert. I can only speak from my experience. I am a coral guy, always have been always will. Even then I still feel I have a long way to go and a lot to learn. I hate chemestry and struggle with lots of the technical parts of the hobby. But I love corals and think I am pretty good with them. So sorry for the book. I just woke up and am on good pain killers.

[PrisonCityReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12164620#post12164620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gooch
So sorry for the book. I just woke up and am on good pain killers.

Good to hear the doc has fixed you up right.:rollface:

[RCS]

ICH, I believe is an internal parasite.

Gooch, the life cycle of Ich is pretty well-documented and I've never read anything suggesting it's an internal parasite. If we're talking true Ich (which is a freshwater parasite) versus it's marine counterpart (Cryptocaryon irritans), there really isn't much difference, and none of it has ever been suggested it's internal by any stretch.

This lady is terribly, horribly wrong in this case.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aa_cryptocaryon.htm

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm

I'll leave it up to Wendy to tell Bob Fenner he doesn't know what he's talking about. :rolleyes:

[Aquabucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12164620#post12164620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gooch
The fish you see at the divers den are for the most part premium species. They do have some fish that ship direct from wholesalers. I am sure they are quality wholesalers. In fact I used some of the same wholesalers they did when I was a shop. And I know they use one of my old wholesalers now.

If you are still reading this mess I do have to state for the record that fish are not my thing. I know very little about fish and do not claim to be an expert. I can only speak from my experience. I am a coral guy, always have been always will. Even then I still feel I have a long way to go and a lot to learn. I hate chemestry and struggle with lots of the technical parts of the hobby. But I love corals and think I am pretty good with them. So sorry for the book. I just woke up and am on good pain killers.

Not much has changed. In fact our main wholesaler at Fish Unlimited is DFS main wholesaler for the diver's den although we have been getting some really nice fish out of Chicago recently.

Its very difficult to make a profit off fish in this industry especially now that many people line up at PetCo on a Fri. morning to nab fish before they hit their tanks. We simply can not compete with their pricing and that's the bottom line with a majority of the hobbyists out there.

As far as ICH goes the parasites typically attack the inside of the fish's mouth and gills well before you see them turning up on the outside of the fish.

[gooch]

Its very difficult to make a profit off fish in this industry especially now that many people line up at PetCo on a Fri. morning to nab fish before they hit their tanks. We simply can not compete with their pricing and that's the bottom line with a majority of the hobbyists out there.

I think it has been this way since well before I ever got into the hobby. I very well respected company rep once told me something and it is so true. It's like a guy who buys a high performance car, spends thousands of dollars on custom rims and then puts the cheapest tires he can find on the car.

In reef terms. The hobbyist spends thousands on equipment but then complains about the cost of the fish or coral. When you stop to think about it. All the fish in a 75 gallon tank combined will still probably cost less than the skimmer(a good skimmer) you put on the tank to run it. I know the last skimmer I purchased was over $2500(and that was a deal). No way I had that much invested in all my fish that I was going to put into the tank. And I had most of these fish seven years or longer. With the tank and pumps I had spent over six thousand dollars on equipment not including refugiums and frag tanks. Yet it is the fish and corals we enjoy.........or is it?

[Fishcrazy06]

gooch I think your last comment hit the nail on the head. Is it the fish and corals we enjoy? I think everyone loves all the technical stuff and so forth that goes into it. The high tech equipment and so forth.

Eric

[RCS]

Not me, personally. Anyone who's seen my tanks and knows my husbandry practices knows I'm not into the whole technological 100%-ten-times-a-day water change, spend-more-time-working-on-your-tank-than-enjoying-it band wagon.

Keep is simple, it works just as well in most cases. I haven't done a water change in over a year. Technology on my tank consists of the Ti heater, an ASM G3 skimmer, halides and a Panworld pump. I don't even recall the last time I tested anything...maybe I will one of these days again.

[siropa]

I'll side with Fred on this one. my DIY skimmer is about the most complicated gadget I have. actually when I bought an icecap MH ballast and lumenbright reflector a few months ago it was the first "modern" piece of equipment i've had in a long time.

[gooch]

No need to side with anybody. Not trying to choose sides. Just pointing some things out. There is more than one way to keep a succesfull reeftank. I was skimmerless for years. Had nothing but a sandbed refugium.

All I am saying is when you break down a lot of the costs of keeping an aquarium/reef tanks the fish and corals are often not the most expensive things in the tank. Yet they are the prices people complain about the most. We all know you can trade corals or buy frags for next to nothing amongst each other. You can buy a colony and frag it up to make the coral cost next to nothing. If you spend $50 on a fish and it lives ten years what is the cost of that fish over its lifetime? A lot less than many think. Yeah it sucks when that $50 fish dies in a week but even if you added up all your fish and coral purchases over x amount of years time in the hobby most will probably spend more on equipment than livestock. Come on how much junk do we all have in our reefkeeping closets? I still have totes of stuff that I will never use.

I also do prefer the simple approach but have evolved to appreciate things that make my life easier and provide a better environment for my animals/pets. There was a time I use to spend more on my tank than I did on rent when I was single and just getting started.

I personally think liverock is the biggest waste of money out there. But the hobby in general feels it is a must have thing in a tank. But it has been proven over time that you don't have to have 2 pounds of rock per gallon to have a succesfull reeftank. And yeah I know you can make your own rock for pennies per pound. But the culture exists and we still bring in tons of liverock every week into the country. And as long as the masses continue to want it it will continue to be brought in.

[siropa]

I wasn't trying to pick a "side" or anything. just pointing out that not everyone dumps a ton of money into the equipment side of things. I've had plenty of tanks over the years where I had more spent on livestock than on equipment. That isn't probably the case these days because of the cost of frags.

I know where you are coming from and have heard the complaining about livestock prices etc, but I think a lot of it is from the risk factor. yeah a $500 light is still $500, but even if it doesn't work out I could probably resell it on ebay or here and recover a good chunk of that. But a $200 fish or coral that doesn't work out is dead. there is a lot more apprehension on dropping a good chunk of cash on something alive.

If liverock was good quality like it was 7+ years ago, i'd disagree with you. The variety of little critters you'd get on rock was just as interesting to me as fish and corals. but the stuff people buy now is junk for the most part.

[2farNorth]

Wow! Never thought I'd get this reaction from posting that link!! (ok, maybe I did!!)

Sorry Feederfish!!

Anywho, I posted that link, cuz, All the stores I seen in the GB area, and also even JP in Appleton, are really alot nicer then the said store... It really is bad... her store is the only one I've ever been in that the floor actually crunches when you walk on it... I know algae is everyone friend, but... you just might get a glimpse of a fish as it heads for the trickle of water coming out of the HOB Power filter (with Bio-wheel!), and thats on every tank!! If you want a snail, half the fun is finding it still in it's shell!! (piles of shells covering the bottoms of tanks) Dead coral skeletons,, stacks of them, in the reef display....

The LFS is a hard business to be in,, but I do have to say, you guys down there are getting it down pat!!! I can't wait to see the new store!!!

I was never one to bad mouth people (go figure!!) but our clubs have been getting a bad rap up here from her,, which is fine, to each their own,, but when a store as bad as hers, makes false comments about a place such as F&S, and many others,which revolutionized the saltwater industry.... It's just sad....

I should almost start another thread about this....

[johnanddawn]

this is a great conversation and although a little off the original topic very much worth discussing

i think i'm backwards and it has been causing me quite a bit of concern lately
i have no problem dropping big bucks on the corals i want yet can't get myself to buy high end equipment. i think the quality of todays livestock is multifold higher then in the past and the price matching the quality
i have spent easily thousands of dollars in corals and other then my light set (which is low budget yet still expensive) i have next to nothing spent on equipment. cheap pumps, powerheads, skimmer that doesn't work, no high tech device at all. i iv drip kalk and dose two part and am a solid member of the low tech minimalist community.
lately i've been thinking that maybe i need to do some equipment upgrades to protect my true investment - my livestock
the question then becomes are maxis good enough or do i need a vortec, should i buy a great big skimmer, why don't i own a Ca reactor or chiller ummm while i'm at it 400W radiums and computer moderated probs for pH Ca and blah blah blah would be awesome - where does it end?

sorry if i deviated too much

[siropa]

this has been a wandering thread, but interesting.

john you can be in our Luddite club too :) i've had the same thoughts as you over the years, but haven't been able to stop with my DIY and cheap ways. mostly because what i've always done has generally worked very well for me and i'm leery about trying something different. i'm not sold that it would be better way of doing things, so low tech wins out.

having said that I just did order a 2nd Dart pump today to use. The first one has been pretty darn nice and it was time to upgrade one of my junk pumps.

[customcolor]

to bad you ordered a dart cuz i have a big dolphin im trying to sell that does 3600gph at 0 for 135

[gooch]

Just goes to show there are so many different feelings people have when it comes to our tanks.

In the end the important thing is this. Are you enjoying the hobby? Yes, then that is all that matters. Where you choose to shop or what you want to buy for your tank is and always should be your choice. We all have opinions.

[customcolor]

i also agree with the diy part. sometimes we our selfs can make do with what we can make an some of us have no problems (not me i have them from time to time like some hairalgie on some rock) but its worth seeing something you made realy work even if its dont work the best. if you run out of room for coral and everything is still working fine then you upgrade if you still wanna spend money on the tank.

i like to diy cuz i love building with my hands.

[2farNorth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12168711#post12168711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gooch
In the end the important thing is this. Are you enjoying the hobby? Yes, then that is all that matters. Where you choose to shop or what you want to buy for your tank is and always should be your choice. We all have opinions.
Oh, All I can say is I'm loving it!! And now the kid is also interested in 'Dads Dungeon' as the wife would call it...

Oh, and the DIY.. If anyones been to my place,, they know I'm a big fan!! :D

[siropa]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12168692#post12168692 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by customcolor
to bad you ordered a dart cuz i have a big dolphin im trying to sell that does 3600gph at 0 for 135

dolphin wasn't going to work for me. part of the reason I wanted a 2nd dart is in case one dies is that I can get one backup pump for both of them.

[customcolor]

good point since the darts have 2" ins and outs and this dolphin has 1.5". cant wait to see your tank at your meeting. it was fun moving it and seeing your pics. now i cant wait to see it in person.

[siropa]

i'm looking forward to showing it off when I have the meet. I hope the tank fills in a bit over the next 6-7 months before then though. it still has too much of that "frag rack" look right now.

[labrec06]

i want to hear more about just pets good/BAD experinces? :D;)

[2farNorth]

A little birdy musta contacted the store in the link http://www.wendysbluelagoon.com/articles/marine/2.html .... I see she removed Fosters and Smith from it!!

As for the Just Pets, I've only been in there once, some of the livestock was questionable.... but the kid working stepped off of a ladder, into a bucket of water and proceeded to get his leg, and floor soaked,,, that was hilarious!! :D