How can phosphates be ditectable?

[Mappelbaum37]

I have been on top of my tank maintenance for a while now due to major green hair algae and diatoms. In a little more then 1 month using only RO water for water changes the nitrates have dropped from about 20 ppm to 5-10 ppm. I have been doing a numerous amount of things to the tank to benefit to the algae's starvation.

If I am still getting the same amount of algae with my nitrates being cut in half, I'm assuming its the phosphates. Now I dont have a phosphate test kit, but if i buy one and test for the phosphates, how will I know when I get rid of them? Algae eats the phosphates too quick to detect in the water so it would come up 0 on the test kit. If they show up being higher then usual, that means that it would be contributing to the algae right? Either way I have algae!

I dont understand the whole thing, as well as why this algae wont go away. I do more and more maintenance, buy more and more products/livestock to rid the tank of algae but within a weeks worth I'm back to step 1 with a tank full of algae.

Please help me out here. I'm losing my mind...

thanks

[gman0526]

First off stop buying things and spending $$. Could you describe your setup a little better and, what you feed the tank and such?

Basically your best meter to know that there's too much PO4 in the system is the fact there's alagae thriving in the tank, even if a test shows a 0 reading, there's no and ifs or buts about that. let us know more about the tank and we might be able to help you. ;)

[seapug]

You know the Phosphate is gone when the algae dies, and it happens quickly once you get below a certain threshold.

I feel your pain. I went through this last summer to the point where I nearly broke down my tank and started over. I am one of the most diligent maintenance people you'll ever meet but could not beat the algae problem I had.

As a last resort I hooked up a PhosBan Reactor with GFO media and it was as close to a magic solution as iIve ever witnessed in this hobby. It took 8 weeks and one media change at 4 weeks before it worked, but when the Phosphate finally dropped out, all the algae in my tank died and disappeared within about 1 week. It was a pretty incredible thing to witness.

[ConsultantERP]

I must say ditto to seapug, my mistake was reusing sand (baaaad idea). it took 6- 9 months to get rid of it, but finally one day it just all started to dissappear. If you have a sump or refugium you might try adding some macro algea. It may not eliminate the problem but it could slow down the growth because of compatition of nutrients.

GFO is a good idea and works well, just start out using about 1/2 of the recommended amount to see how your corals react. Give it a month if all is good then go ahead an use the recommended amounts.

Personally, I am trying to avoid the EQUIPMENT craze, and theres alot of it out there, and much of it works well.

Anyways, macro algae, and a descent skimmer is the beginning to the solution, its gonna take some time though.

[Mappelbaum37]

ConsultantERP, seapug, Gman-

I have some chaeto in an in tank refugium right now. I have pretty bad equipment because everything I have to purchase must be HOB because I have no sump and I was introduced to the hobby thinking this stuff was the best in the hobby. (hense the *in tank refugium*) I have a fluval 405 containing 1 bag of phoslock PURA, 1 bag of chemi pure ELITE, 2 bags of chemi pure, and 2 bags of carbon. (Plus sponges) I have a prism protein skimmer, 1 maxi jet 1200 with quick filter, 1 maxi jet 600, and 1 koralia #3, as well as an HOT magnum system pro filter. *I am constantly expanding on my clean up crew*

I have been told by many people that phosban reactors really work, except I just cant trust anything anymore because I buy, buy more, and buy some more, and see no results... I think I'm going to buy a phosban reactor so atleast I can say I tried it out. Hopefully it will work. What is GFO?

I clean the fluval 405 and HOt magnum pro every 2 weeks and do weekly 10 gallon water changes. Hair algae didnt used to be so bad in the tank but its getting worse and worse. (By the way, I use RO water for my water changes)

That's basically the rundown of my tank, so all I want to know is

1) what type of phosban reactor should I buy? (I hear a lot about 2 little fishies)
2) what is GFO
3) is there a HOB phosban reactor?
thanks...

[psteeleb]

my 2 cents on your latest questions

2 LF is a good reactor for the money - I have 3

GFO is granular ferric oxide (basically rust), it's the stuff you put in the reactor as a phosphate sponge

the 2LF reactor is a hang on back (HOB) design

[gman0526]

fluval 405 (Plus sponges)*** CRAP TRAP
prism protein skimmer*** Underpowered
maxi jet 1200 with quick filter*** CRAP TRAP
HOT magnum system pro filter *** CRAP TRAP

How deep is the sand bed and how old? I would guess that it has reached it's loading capacity.

Don't spend a dime yet, what are you feeding?

[Mappelbaum37]

Im feeding frozen food which is something like brine shrimp, mysis shrimp mix and some other stuff one night and the next night, flake food. I went to florida on thursday night to come home today (monday) 4 days later to find my tank completely covered in algae. It hasn't been touched in 4 days, and it looks horrible.

Everyone tells me that my equipment is horrible and I understand that. I'm 16 years old and I know that in the hobby there's a lot of expensive stuff out there thats much better then what I have. This is what I have to deal with though. I am constantly buying new things like I said and nothing's worked. So from my parents perspective, they think the equipment I have is good quality stuff. I keep telling them I'm spending money, and they tell me that I already have a million things running on my tank. what else can I buy. The fluval and prism is what I was bought into the hobby with and it was working fine for 8 months with the same amount of fish, until I re-did the tank. All of the sudden I have to replace mainly everything that runs the tank? I am consistently cleaning the fluval and magnum system and the quick filter to the maxi jet...

5 out of the 7 fish in the tank dont exceed 3 inches. is a better protein skimmer THAT necessary?

I have phoslock PURA in my fluval. What's the difference in the way it works if its in a phosban reactor? I only ask this so I can explain the difference to my parents.

At this point I am fed up with the whole thing. I am not touching my rocks any more because in a matter of days it just comes right back.

What is on my wish list for now is a phosban reactor, and new salt to switch from my oceanic sea salt, to tropic marin pro reef.

I can honestly say it's hard balancing school, spring/winter/fall sports, hanging out with friends, and this reef hobby, but I guess all good things have to come to an end. I'll give the tank until summer. If by that time the salt and phosban reactor dont help out the tank I think I'm just gonna take it down. Enough is enough. It's been 4-5 months already and nothing has balanced out.

I have pics to post up later...

[Mappelbaum37]

Im feeding frozen food which is something like brine shrimp, mysis shrimp mix and some other stuff one night and the next night, flake food. I went to florida on thursday night to come home today (monday) 4 days later to find my tank completely covered in algae. It hasn't been touched in 4 days, and it looks horrible.

Everyone tells me that my equipment is horrible and I understand that. I'm 16 years old and I know that in the hobby there's a lot of expensive stuff out there thats much better then what I have. This is what I have to deal with though. I am constantly buying new things like I said and nothing's worked. So from my parents perspective, they think the equipment I have is good quality stuff. I keep telling them I'm spending money, and they tell me that I already have a million things running on my tank. what else can I buy. The fluval and prism is what I was bought into the hobby with and it was working fine for 8 months with the same amount of fish, until I re-did the tank. All of the sudden I have to replace mainly everything that runs the tank? I am consistently cleaning the fluval and magnum system and the quick filter to the maxi jet...

5 out of the 7 fish in the tank dont exceed 3 inches. is a better protein skimmer THAT necessary?

I have phoslock PURA in my fluval. What's the difference in the way it works if its in a phosban reactor? I only ask this so I can explain the difference to my parents.

At this point I am fed up with the whole thing. I am not touching my rocks any more because in a matter of days it just comes right back.

What is on my wish list for now is a phosban reactor, and new salt to switch from my oceanic sea salt, to tropic marin pro reef.

I can honestly say it's hard balancing school, spring/winter/fall sports, hanging out with friends, and this reef hobby, but I guess all good things have to come to an end. I'll give the tank until summer. If by that time the salt and phosban reactor dont help out the tank I think I'm just gonna take it down. Enough is enough. It's been 4-5 months already and nothing has balanced out.

I have pics to post up later...

[sabbath]

How often where you guys changing your GFO. Are you going a month. I'm fighting HA right now and change it every 4 days at about a 150% dose of D.F.S. GFO in a reator. I have been doing this for about 2 and half weeks now. I went 6 days a few days ago and it was starting to take off again. Here is a pic of it. Maybe mine is worse then most. I have read the 12 step programs. I'm doing all of them. ie.
Salifert tests 0 po4

http://www.melevsreef.com/gha.html

http://inbrettshead.blogspot.com/2008/03/tips-on-battling-nuisance-algae-in.html



http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb11/ptlguertin/32208tankpic.jpg

[seapug]

I'm not an "equipment junky" either. In fact, you have more gear than I do on my 90 gallon!

I have a small sump with no refugium and the only equipment it contains is a heater, protein skimmer (good one, but undersized), the Phosban Reactors (one with carbon the other with PhosBan), and a 500 GPH return pump. I have no electronic controllers, ATO, or mind boggling plumbing schemes. I'm a firm believer that you don't need tons of complex equipment to keep a healthy tank.

PhosBan reactors are better than sticking bags in a canister filter because the water is forced through the media at a controlled rate that allows maximum contact time. The water has no way to go "around" the media. This is important when using a chemical binding media.
Don't be intimidated by the term "reactor"-- it sounds complicated but they are very simple devices and are quite cheap as far as reef tank equipment goes and are very easy to install.

I would suggest ditching all the canister, HOB filters altogether and using nothing but your protein skimmer and a GFO reactor for a couple months to see what happens. All the sponges, pads, bags, and complex filter media might actually be the source of your problem. They certainly seem to be the source of your frustration, and I can understand why!

sabbath, it took my tank about 8 weeks and one media cheange at 4 weeks before it "happened."

[Mappelbaum37]

thanks for the links sabbath, and thanks for the advice seapug. I really like your theory on not keeping complex equipment for a healthy tank. I've been thinking, like always.

I want to get an aqua c remora pro but I dont want to take the risk of having it constantly spit out micro bubbles, or come broken, or any of those.

I will try to return the magnum pro system and put that money towards a phosban reactor. Then I will upgrade from a prism to an aqua c remora pro HOB. I have a spare koralia #3 that I will replace for a koralia #2 and a maxi jet 600.

Replace:
Koralia #2= 600 gph
Maxi jet 600= 160 gph
total= 760 gph

*keep in the maxi jet 1200 w/ quick filter

Put in:
koralia #3 (850 gph)
total=850 gph

total gph in tank will= (295 gph + 850 gph) 1145 gph
Is that enough flow?

I'll run chemi-pure and chemi pure elite in the fluval so I dont need to run carbon in a phosban reactor as well as GFO.

Thats what I have in mind for now. What do you think? Agree, disagree?

thanks

[Mappelbaum37]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=11586

This was the product I was looking at but apparently it wont work as a hang on the back if the lip of my tank exceeds 3/4". The outer lip of my tank is 1". I really wanna get this reactor but it wont work! what should I do?

[seapug]

get more 1/2" tubing and you can set it on the floor behind the tank.