Please HELP, Live rock, look what happened!!!

[Imanz0]

Please help! All i did was take out bioballs, with live rock, so i went and bought a peice of live rock, and the guy told me to hammer it, so i made into about 1-3 inch pieces and threw in the back. So then i finished putting it all in, then i look and the tank and was like what the freacking hell! Its so cloudy, and my water is all brown! I had also bought 5 gallons of salt water, to do a 50% water change, because of nitrates as you guys have recomennded in the other posts, so now i want to know if I should add that water or let it clear up and then add it. Please help before my fish die! Im sure you have all seen this pic from my other posts, but just to show before and after, Please help me out!
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00764.jpg

After I added pieces of Live rock.

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00790.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00789.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00788.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00787.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00786.jpg

Help, help help!!!

[Imanz0]

That cloud just looks bright with the flash! I couldnt even see my fish!

[rlm2005]

So you removed all your bio balls and replaced them with the live rock? How long has this tank been set up? How many bio balls did you remove? How long ago did you do this? 1 hour? Yesterday?

[Imanz0]

It was about 20 balls, been set up for 1 month, and yes i removed this, and it happened 2 min ago, i pushed brother off the computer to get your help ASAP.

[Tang Salad]

Relax! It'll be fine. ;)

That looks like just sediment from the new rock. And it happened too quickly to be a bacteria bloom (the other common cause of cloudiness).

Keep your skimmer running, amybe add some carbon; it'll clear up soon.

[rlm2005]

It's possible you stirred up some gunk that was on the bottom of the back chamber. Give it a little time to clear up. However it is never a good idea to remove all the bio balls at once. That can cause a mini cycle. Was the live rock that you added cured?

[Aquarist007]

It wasn't the removal of the bioballs --they were not in there long enough
It was the addition of more live rock--its curing and releasing phosphates and nitrates which looks like its starting an algae or diatom bloom

I wouldn't worry--the rock should cure quickly and the food source dwindle and the algae die off

[Aquabucket]

Test for ammonia. If its undetectable just leave it settle out on its own.

[Imanz0]

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00791.jpg
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm231/Imanz1/DSC00792.jpg

Make that 40 bioballs, and the type of rock i was using is that, it is also in the pics above, the little rocks in the bottom left corner, didnt have room in back so i put there, bought these 8 bucks a pound

[rlm2005]

I notice the angel is still in there. You really should take it back to the store. It's a beautiful fish but not appropriate in that sized tank.

[Imanz0]

Can i keep it for 1 more month till its bigger, or take it back right now. The guy said he can give store credit if i return to him a lil bigger. Im not worried about money its that i like yellow and blue color.

[Tang Salad]

Is it a Bicolor Angel?

[Imanz0]

Can i do that 50% water change now or wait till tomarow when it clears up? I put 3 filter cartreges in there to help it out.

[Gdevine]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12223041#post12223041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rlm2005
I notice the angel is still in there. You really should take it back to the store. It's a beautiful fish but not appropriate in that sized tank.

I agree the angel does not belong in a tank that size.

Also, the dust will settle over time no big deal.

[Imanz0]

Yes Bicolor Angel.

[geno7]

That is some nice rock!!!!!

I agree with Tang Salad. Happened to quick to be bad. Just sediment from the rock. You will be fine.

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12223079#post12223079 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Yes Bicolor Angel.
Then chances are it won't last a month. :( Sorry for the bad news, but that species is difficult to keep alive even in large, mature systems.

[Imanz0]

Im getting rid of that rock in middle (80$) everyone saying that it doesnt have filter capacity of a regular live rock, and can i do that 50% water change now or not?

[Tang Salad]

You need to slow down...:)

The cloudiness is most likely dust from the new rock. It is not harmful. A water change may be in order considering the number of fish in the small tank, but don't panic and rush to do it for the wrong reasons.

How long has the tank been set up?

[A sea K]

Nano tank with no bio filter and uncured live rock?
Take the Angel back ASAP or it will surely die.

[Imanz0]

Ok, well the thing was, about the nitrates, that i went out and bought 5 gallons of water for a 50% Water change, Multiple people of high experience told me to do this in my past fourm. But after this im doig 10% a week

[Imanz0]

When i asked, they said its all cured. You guys sure that the angel will die?

[Imanz0]

They got a set up with a 14 gallon, with a pair of bicolor angeles in it that have been living for 7 months now, Ever since i went there for my first tank, they have been alive.

[Tang Salad]

I think your questions have already been answered.

Good Luck! :)

[Imanz0]

Well, ill tell my brother, and hopefully he will have a heart to give it back, so the 50% water change is ok right now or o?

[Imanz0]

Well, ill tell my brother, and hopefully he will have a heart to give it back, so the 50% water change is ok right now or no?

[Tang Salad]

If the water is the same temperature, Ph, and salnity of the water in the tank, then yes you can do a 50% water change. If it isn't, or if you're unsure, then it would be better to do a smaller (10%) WC instead.

[Imanz0]

Ill check in a second.

[Macimage]

What do your test kits for ammonia, ph, nitrates and nitrites say? If they are not 0, you should do a water change. Hopefully, the rock you added was fully cured. Keep an eye on it to verify that.

Take the angel back as your tank is too small for it. How would you like to live in a closet for just one more month?

Joyce

[Imanz0]

Yes, those 3 were the same, im about to do the 50% water change.

[Misled]

Take the angel back to the pet store tomorrow and "DON"T" do a water change. Let things settle down for a few days. Nothing good in this hobby happens fast!!!!

[Imanz0]

Oh great now you tell me.

[rlm2005]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12223526#post12223526 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Oh great now you tell me.
Did you do the water change? Take it easy and really start reading up on marine tanks, please. The advice you receive here will only go so far, you need to have some kind of understanding of this hobby so you can make informed choices. You can't rely simply on the responses you get.

[njdevilsfan]

please brake your rock outside
that looks like a nice carpet to ruin

[Imanz0]

Vacuumed it like crazy, and anyone know why the biclolor fish has turned black on all of its yellow side?

[Misled]

You started this thread an hour ago. I can see you running around like a chicken with your head cut off. Just stop. If you did the water change let it be. I'm worried about the angel. Too much change will affect him more than anything else. Turn off the lights and just let things settle down overnight. Call your store in the morning and see about returning him.

[rlm2005]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12223624#post12223624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Vacuumed it like crazy, and anyone know why the biclolor fish has turned black on all of its yellow side?
Picture?

[vito is hooked]

who told you take all your balls out at ONCE!!

[Misled]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12223624#post12223624 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
anyone know why the biclolor fish has turned black on all of its yellow side?

Most likely ph or temp off on the water you used. Too much change is just stressing him out.

[Imanz0]

For the seconds it was swimming, i saw it, but now its inside my big rock, cant really get a good pic of it. I talked to 2 different shop keepers, and said since tank is new, it really wont do anything, since the balls really didnt adjust yet, and is it ok if in the back, some of the live rock isnt hitting the water?

[rlm2005]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12223680#post12223680 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
For the seconds it was swimming, i saw it, but now its inside my big rock, cant really get a good pic of it. I talked to 2 different shop keepers, and said since tank is new, it really wont do anything, since the balls really didnt adjust yet, and is it ok if in the back, some of the live rock isnt hitting the water?
Seriously turn off the light and let it be. In the meantime keep yourself busy reading up on here. You may also want to check out the nano forum as well. That will give you an idea of what other people with similar sized tanks are keeping in theirs. Tomorrow get the angel out and return it.

[Imanz0]

So is it ok if some of the live rock isnt hitting the water? What happens if some live rock is not hitting the water?

[dean11111]

Please listen to what people are saying. Get educated on the tank that you have. Make slow informed choices. Search for the info you want first, instead of immediatly asking questions in forums. You can search this site with google if you need to, type the keywords you need and follow it by site:reefcentral.com I can tell you really want to fix the tank, fix it by learning. I just hope im not coming off like a know it all.

Here is one link to get your started.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-11/nftt/index.php
Its about changing water it one of my favs

[widmer]

Another word of advice for the future: Don't buy any fish for that aquarium of yours that aren't already fully grown. And if you told your aquarium store what size aquarium you have before they sold you the angel, you need to find a new aquarium store to shop at.

[Misled]

So how are you this morning? I hope the angel is still ok, it's a beautiful fish, just not in a tank that small. Has the water cleared up?

[Imanz0]

Ok, I returned the angel, but my water is still cloudy, and it is still a week after it now... My nitrates are at 24. I think im just going to start this one all over if i cant get nitrates to 10 or less in 4 weeks. I will only be loosing the clowns. But then i think it will be better. Anyway, i was wondering this. If im starting my tank over, i know i can still use my live rock, but does this apply for sand, because i dont want my sand to be giving off nitrates in a new tank. And if i am just taking all of water out, and all of the fish, just adding water, is it going to be cycling agian or not?

[Aquarist007]

Can you revise your timeline here and possible return the pics so we can see them again?
eg when did you add the live rock, how long has it been cycling
If you could repost todays measurements for ammonia and nitrates it would also help unwind this situation.

[Misled]

Agree with cap. Also did you add any additives? Do you have a skimmer? I went back and read through and didn't see anything about it. If so what skimmer? What lighting and what are you running it? Did you run any carbon?

[Imanz0]

Ok, what happened, is that when i bought it, the shop keeper told me that i want to use a filtercartrege for the first 1-2 months to let benificial bacteria grow, because the skimmer takes out good and bad bacteria. 1 more week and im putting in the skimmer. When i had added the live rock(white one in middle) it had been done with 2 pounds of fiji live rock. I just did a 1 gallon water change(Last week i did 50%, trying to take it easy on it) So ill give it about 30 min, so when i do the water test, it should be acurate.

[Mattmcf]

do the largest water change you can manage. 100% water changes are not a bad thing.

[Imanz0]

Iv herd that its the worst thing you can do though.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12261309#post12261309 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Ok, what happened, is that when i bought it, the shop keeper told me that i want to use a filtercartrege for the first 1-2 months to let benificial bacteria grow, because the skimmer takes out good and bad bacteria. 1 more week and im putting in the skimmer. When i had added the live rock(white one in middle) it had been done with 2 pounds of fiji live rock. I just did a 1 gallon water change(Last week i did 50%, trying to take it easy on it) So ill give it about 30 min, so when i do the water test, it should be acurate.

I heard many stories of usual advice from LFS's but a skimmer takes out good bacteria
Imanzo---do not go back there---that is 100 percent misconception.:eek2:

Here is a suggestion:
move the fish to a qt tank for three or four weeks--remove the filter cartridge from the main tank and use it on there--the bacteria will be enough to support the fish.

on the main tank
install the protein skimmer
let the live rock cure and the bacteria cycle
monitor ammonia and nitrate levels--let each spike and each drop to zero
at that point add one good size raw shrimp for 12 hours--check ammonia and nitrate levels--if zero

your good--get your clean up crew, a week later add your fish back.

**only do a water change if the ammonia spikes above 50--to preserve some of the invert life there already
keep your salinity at 1.026 and your water temp 78-82

sit back and read some of the articles at the top of this forum:smokin:

[Imanz0]

Ph- 7.7
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-28
Ammonia-0
Salinity- 1.023

God dam those nitrates!!!!!

[Imanz0]

-Dont got a qt tank..

Ok just tell me this you guys, im thinking about restarting my tank, if i take out all the water, and replace it with new water, iv heard that you can still keep your livve rock in there, can i keep sand in there too? And if i do this, is it going to cycle agian or not?

[mikesommers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12261779#post12261779 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Ph- 7.7
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-28
Ammonia-0
Salinity- 1.023

God dam those nitrates!!!!!

PH is to low needs to be around 8.3 to 8.4
Salinity is to low needs to be 1.026

Yes you can keep the rock and sand. Do not clean them or it will have to cycle again.

P.S. Listen to what capn_hylinur said!! YOU have got to SLOW DOWN. The tank will never make it if you dont. Good advice they say 1 inch of fish per 1 gallon. If you do not want NO3 then keep it to 1 inch of fish per 5 gallons and get a skimmer on the tank. Change water (1 to 3 gallons on that tank) once a week. When you mix your water TEST it. Get the PH right and make sure SG (salinity) is 1.026. These are very important if you want the tank to do well. Skimmmmmmm the water. It will all work out fine if you slow down take the load off the tank and get your number right. You will be fighting a losing battle otherwise! I wish you the best of luck.

P.S.S. Listen to what capn_hylinur said!!

[mikesommers]

Changing water has nothing to do with the bacteria in the tank. Bacteria lives in the sand and rock. At the same time if you keep the water to clean the tank will never mature. There has to be food for the bacteria to live.

[Imanz0]

Im planning to do it over, and just have 1 clownfish for ever, so those nitrates wont go up for my corals. And when im adding water to the sand, is there a way to prevent it from having the water looking like milk for like 3 days? And do i put the skimmer in the tank from the begining of the tank or wait for bacteria to grow?

[mikesommers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12264918#post12264918 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Im planning to do it over, and just have 1 clownfish for ever, so those nitrates wont go up for my corals. And when im adding water to the sand, is there a way to prevent it from having the water looking like milk for like 3 days? And do i put the skimmer in the tank from the begining of the tank or wait for bacteria to grow?

Start the skimmer after 24 hours. Let the water mix good. If you put the water in real slow in should not cause a sand storm. If it does just let it settle. I dont think you really need to start over just do a water change and keep the PH up. Thats a sure sign that the tank was not done with its cycle. When PH and Alk. stabilize thats a sign that the tank is taking off. Make sure you keep PH up 8.2 to 8.4 and Alkalinity 6 meg/L. Thats important. Things cant grow if the water is not right. Worry about NO3 last.

[mikesommers]

Do you mix your own water?

[mikesommers]

If not it would be a good idea to start. Use RO/DI water and make 30 gallons. Get all the water properties right and let it mix for 48 hrs before you use it. It can take a couple of days to get the water right. If you test right away the readings will not be right. Mix the water test the PH, Alkalinity and CA+. Calculate out what you need for PH/Alk buffer and add it. Wait 24 hrs and recheck if its right then start checking Calcium. Do the same for it (400 - 440) then wait 24 hrs and retest it. When everything is right mix the water for another 48 hrs. That will give you good water properties and then you can use that water to do water changes for 3 weeks. Do not add anything else to the water but CA+ and PH buffer. The tank will take care of its self if you do this. You will be amazed. Dont forget set salinity at 1.026. Your goal is to make sea water.

CA+ 400
PH 8.3
ALK 6 meg/L
Salinity 1.026
and later on when you get that down you can start working with the MAG levels.

The tank will take off like a rocket as long as you dont over stock it.

[Imanz0]

should i put some plastic over the sand so it wont cause it?

[kar93]

pics not working, could you the link your photobucket account?

[mikesommers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12267775#post12267775 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
should i put some plastic over the sand so it wont cause it?

No just fill it slow. Let the water run over the rock as you fill it.

[kar93]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12261649#post12261649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Mattmcf
do the largest water change you can manage. 100% water changes are not a bad thing.

100% water changes should NEVER be done.

[Tang Salad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12273560#post12273560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kar93
100% water changes should NEVER be done.

They shouldn't be done by people who don't first test the water very well. But some well-known and respected people in this hobby use 100% water changes.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12261800#post12261800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
-Dont got a qt tank..

Ok just tell me this you guys, im thinking about restarting my tank, if i take out all the water, and replace it with new water, iv heard that you can still keep your livve rock in there, can i keep sand in there too? And if i do this, is it going to cycle agian or not?

got 10 bucks?? go buy and plastic tote--there's your qt tank.

IMO a qt tank is vital--you will find a good number of experineced reefers who would not dream of putting a newly purchased fish into their existing main tanks--they just have to much of an investment in there or take pride in raising fish correctly, to take the chance

[Misled]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12273872#post12273872 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by capn_hylinur
got 10 bucks?? go buy and plastic tote--there's your qt tank.

IMO a qt tank is vital--you will find a good number of experineced reefers who would not dream of putting a newly purchased fish into their existing main tanks--they just have to much of an investment in there or take pride in raising fish correctly, to take the chance


X2

You can also get a 10 gal at Walmart for about ten bucks.

[ConsultantERP]

Do yourself a favor, wait for about 4 months before adding fish, otherwise you will always wonder why they are dieing, IMO.

[Imanz0]

Whats IMO, jesus, and whats a Lfs?

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12279991#post12279991 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Imanz0
Whats IMO, jesus, and whats a Lfs?

LFS= local fish store

IMO = in my opinion

[Aquarist007]

here is the link to reef acronyms used on RC

http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Encyclopedia&op=list_content&eid=2