Is this Ich?

[rob020880]

Yesterday a purchased two true perculas. One of them now has these little spots on it (see below). Is this ich or something else? What should I do, should I take action or see what happens?

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/127360ich3-med.JPG

[reefnut2790]

judging from that pic I would say he looks good. keep an eye on behavior and eatting but if those 2 are normal id say your ok.

[SCIFI_3D_zoo]

Yea.. looks like it. But it's so minor at the moment and a clown will most likely deal with it.

[Patrick12]

Yes it does look like ich....cryptocaryon irritans specifically.

[dante7921]

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE TELLING THIS GUY TO FORGET ABOUT IT! Dude, get a hospital tank immediately. Do either a hyposalinity treatment or a copper treatment for your fish and leave the DT fishless for at least 5 weeks. Ich will never go away if you leave it untreated. If your tank is fishless the ich will die off and since you'll be treating your fish, they won't re-introduce the ich to your DT. Get rid of the ich now and then QT all new arrivals for a few weeks to know for sure if they are sick. Good husbandry makes a healthy environment. Don't sell yourself short.

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12309888#post12309888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dante7921
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE TELLING THIS GUY TO FORGET ABOUT IT! Dude, get a hospital tank immediately. Do either a hyposalinity treatment or a copper treatment for your fish and leave the DT fishless for at least 5 weeks. Ich will never go away if you leave it untreated. If your tank is fishless the ich will die off and since you'll be treating your fish, they won't re-introduce the ich to your DT. Get rid of the ich now and then QT all new arrivals for a few weeks to know for sure if they are sick. Good husbandry makes a healthy environment. Don't sell yourself short.

I agree with you, but at the same time there is not much that can be done for the DT if that perc is already in there with ich.

but yes, qt all fish purchases for a good 4-6 weeks before introducing them to the main tank

[Hop]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12309888#post12309888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dante7921
I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARE TELLING THIS GUY TO FORGET ABOUT IT! Dude, get a hospital tank immediately. Do either a hyposalinity treatment or a copper treatment for your fish and leave the DT fishless for at least 5 weeks. Ich will never go away if you leave it untreated. If your tank is fishless the ich will die off and since you'll be treating your fish, they won't re-introduce the ich to your DT. Get rid of the ich now and then QT all new arrivals for a few weeks to know for sure if they are sick. Good husbandry makes a healthy environment. Don't sell yourself short.

To some degree I do agree, but ich (C. Irritans) can be fought off by treating in the tank by reducing the stress in the fish and stimulating appetite in order to build the immune system. Garlic supplementation is a good manner in which to do this. Often times, moving a fish while carrying the parasite can further stress the specimen and decrease its immune system further. Therefor I truly believe in a case-by-case evaluation.

In this case, I would attempt to stimulate the appetite in the fish and any others in the tank in order to build the immune system and continue to monitor the infection. At the same time I would prepare a quarantine tank by placing a sponge from a cannister filter (or what ever means will be used for biological filtration) in the tank water to begin building the bacterial colony.

Then if it is determined that the fish (all of them) need to be treated in a quarantine tank, I would follow the directions provided here for hyposalinity (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html) to the T.

Many, many hobbyists have had an ich outbreak, treated in tank by keeping the fish healthy enough to fight the parasite and had no outbreak further down the road even though it MAY still be in the tank. And on the same note, others have treated successfully in the tank only to have to reemerge a few weeks to a couple months later;)

HTH!

[Jerry W]

It really looks to be a very mild case, and sometimes, in a lightly stocked tank with good conditions, otherwise healthy fish can stave off a full blown outbreak. It would help to know what all else is in the tank, do you have a quarantine tank, tank size.
I've had mild cases "disappear" before, and many fish can build up an immunity to the parasite. If it goes away and returns worse, intervention is necessary.

[Aquarist007]

I agree with you, I had mild cases of ich when I first started and didn't quarantine my fish
If the fish fight it off--great---but

this should be a warning sign to qt fish from now on and wait at least six weeks from the last sign of ich in the main tank for it to rid the ich

[rob020880]

Today the three spots that are in the photo above are all but gone! But there are a couple small ones on his tail now. Maybe he will fight it off.

I was also wondering because his lower fin is jagged, and last night I noticed the larger clown was biting that fin. Is this a cause for concern or is the big one just showing whos boss?

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12314024#post12314024 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rob020880
Today the three spots that are in the photo above are all but gone! But there are a couple small ones on his tail now. Maybe he will fight it off.

I was also wondering because his lower fin is jagged, and last night I noticed the larger clown was biting that fin. Is this a cause for concern or is the big one just showing whos boss?

In the second stage the ich leaves the host only to return in 7-9 days in full force:

here is a good read:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12314024#post12314024 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rob020880

I was also wondering because his lower fin is jagged, and last night I noticed the larger clown was biting that fin. Is this a cause for concern or is the big one just showing whos boss?

clowns, chromies, damsels, there are the same family--this is what they do--peck at each other

[jthao]

I hate it when you think the spots are gone...... but then it comes back 10x worse.

[rob020880]

Is there even a chance this may go away on its own? What can I do? I do not have any way of making a seperate hospital tank. I have four other fish in the tank right now, one small ricordia and a cleanup crew. Is there something that I can use in the tank as it is now and not have everything die?

[bertoni]

It might go away or at least subside on its own. If it just subsides, it might return when a new fish is added or some other stressor shows up. There's nothing that can be done safely in the tank.

[rob020880]

What about the RUBY REEF KICK-ICH. It claims to be reef safe. Is this to good to be true?

[bertoni]

Yes.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/author/sp.php

[rob020880]

So now all signs of ich are gone! But this just means the ich is getting stronger and will reappear soon. Is this correct? Will it always be present in my tank? I have a UV sterilizer is there any chance this may kill it?

[Hop]

UV will only kill the parasites that pass through it and that depends on the flowthrough rate and bulb wattage. Best thing to do is keep the fish healthy, eating well and monitor. This may be a great time to start putting together a quarantine tank.

HTH

[Aquarist007]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12322527#post12322527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rob020880
So now all signs of ich are gone! But this just means the ich is getting stronger and will reappear soon. Is this correct? Will it always be present in my tank? I have a UV sterilizer is there any chance this may kill it?

unfortunately all you can do is wait 4-6 weeks and hope the other fish don't get it
what you can do is start feeding the fish food that is soaked in garlic guard or similar garlic product.
There is "some" thinking that garlic over a long period helps build up the fish's immune systems. It doesn't mean they won't contract a disease rather that they can handle it easier and get over it better.

also--if you see no signs of ich in the next six weeks then there is a certainty(not 100%) chance that your tank is ich free
You can keep it that way by gt'ing all future purchases

[bertoni]

Well, marine ich might continue to live in the tank at a reduced level. That's hard to know for sure.

[tmz]

I've seen it live at a reduced level and kill newly introduced well quaratined healthy fish after several months with no sign of it. It may live udetected in the gills of fish in the tank which may have developed a partial immunity. It will go away according to a study after 11months. Reportedly any single strain can only reproduce 34 times. Of course any new unquarantined fish(4 to 6 weeks) may introduce a new strain.

[vito is hooked]

My Hippo and my Achillies that I had in my main for over a year got ICK some how, dont know how, but they got it,that was 2 1/2 months ago, used Garlic extreme, soaked every bit of food that went into the tank, 3 weeks later no sighn of ICK, continued soaking food in garlic till I ran out, I figured no ICK why continue soaking food in garlic, WRONG! ICK is back! MY opinion garlic works! BUT your gonna have to use it for a long..long..long time, so IM back on the garlic, at 18 bucks a bottle you better weigh out the differance between QT tank or Garlic for ever! Just my experiece. GOOD LUCK with the battle, dont let the ICK win, start garlic NOW!!!!!

[Kep]

I had a small bout of ich on my tang and gramma about 2 yrs ago. I installed a UV sterilizer and got a couple of cleaner shrimp. Maybe it was coincidence, maybe not, but the ich was gone and has never returned.

[Moosetache]

Capn.....do you really qt your new fish for 4-6 weeks before adding them to the display?

I have never done that, and knock on wood, havent had any problems to this point.

Which leads me to my question....since Mandarins dont have ich problems most of the time, do you qt them as well? Not to mention I dont know what you would get it to eat during that qt time.

[sufunk]

Ich is not a death sentence usually and there is no reason to freak out over it and immediately tear apart the display to get the fish in hypo or copper.

Ich is triggered by some kind of stress, usually bad water or a new tankmate. If you can take away the stress and keep the fish eating good food dosed with garlic, the fish can usually fight it off. The ich may still be present in the tank but as long as the fish is happy, the ich wont appear.

I've had some BAD outbreaks of ich due to ammonia spikes but each time the fish kept eating, i got the water back in line and the ich went away. Nobody has even asked what your parameters are? Have you checked? You probably are a little out of whack on your parameters.

As long as your fish are eating still and you take away the stressor, you can most likely get your fish to fight it off on their own. I never understand why people always advise to immediately start hypo or copper at the 1st sign of ich:confused:

If the fish are not eating any longer and have ich, then you need to get them into a qt and start treating them

[tmz]

I do q my fish for 4 weeks.I don't keep mandarins. If I did I would watch one at the lfs for a few weeks and then put it in the tank without qt.

[tmz]

As long as your fish are eating still and you take away the stressor, you can most likely get your fish to fight it off on their own. I never understand why people always advise to immediately start hypo or copper at the 1st sign of ich

You have been very lucky.
Crytocaryon irritans does not always kill fish but it can be virulent and destroy many fish in your display even with perfect parameters. It will also weaken fish and open them up to secondary infections from amyloodinium (adka the more lethal ich or velvet) bacterial infections and a host of other nasty things. When it get's going it is horrible to watch. It should be reacted to with high degree of concern, alarm and expeditious treatment outside the display if the fish can be removed. If not you have to cope for 11months( the time it takes for a single strain to persih) and hope garlic ,uv, clelaner shrimp etc. will have some beneficial effect(none of which are proven) nor in my experience will they erradicate it.

[sufunk]

Well, that has not been my experience with any of my ich outbreaks and i have had one where my blue hippo looked as bad as any pic i have ever seen on here. Even with that though, he kept his appetite and ate well.

I guess in that respect, i have been lucky that my fish always continue eating. If they stop eating i agree with you, alarm is needed and they need to be treated asap. If they continue eating well, i dont think you need to be alarmed or panic. Just feed them high quality food with garlic, keep your water parameters in check and remove any other stressor that may be causing the ich and they will usually be fine,ime.