Reeallllly overstocked 300g aquarium...

[jjj1100]

Well right now I have a 300gallon reef tank which I am in the process of taking down. I have a 40g sump, and 110g refugium, so discounting rock, I figure I have about 400 gallons of system volume.

The tank itself is 8 feet long, 30 inches wide, 24 inches tall, so its a good footprint.
Right now, I have the tank very heavily stocked for a reef, 30 anthias, 10 wrasses, achiles tang, niger trigger, marine beta, clowns, 3 chromis...so I would say there are 50 to 60 fish.

I do weekly water changes of 100 gallons to keep nitrates to a minuimum, and with the huge refugium have no issues with stabillity.

Here is where I am sure I am going to get aloooot of heat...

I am going to sell all of my fish, except the Achillies tang, niger Trigger, and Mystery Wrasse...so far so good

Now before the flaming comes, I plan on adding all of these fish as changlinings or smaller...meaning no fish added to the tank will be bigger than 3 inches. I HAVE a place to take the fish when they out grow the tank, which I know they will, and there will be aggresion which of course I will watch. I will try to add as many at the same time as possible, but I just want to know everyone's thoughts.


Butterfly’s:
Copper Banded
Blackback (Melannotus Butterfly)
Pakistani
Red Sea Pearlscale
Punctato (Dot-Dash)
Falcula (Double Saddle or False butterfly)
Racoon
Saddleback
RedSea Golden Butterfly (Semilarvatus Butterfly)
Longfin Bannerfish (Black and White Heniochus)
Latticed Butterfly (Chaetodon rafflesi)
Tear Drop (Chaetodon unimaculatas)
Double Saddle (Chaetodon ulietensis)

Angelfish:
Annularis
Bi-color
Coral Beauty
Eibli Pygmy (Orange-lined Angel)
Flame Angel
Flameback Pygmy
Emperor
Leomonpeel
Majestic (Navorachus)
Passer (King)
Potters
Queen
Regal
Rock Beauty
Scribbled

Tangs
Powder Blue
Powder Brown
Naso Tang

Triggers
Huma Huma
Clown Trigger

Puffers
2 or 3 different

Again I will do weekly 100 gallon water changes, or more as Nitrates dictate, but I just wanted to get some thoughts or opinons on this...

call me craazzzzzy...I am sure most will....but before I did I was just wondering what everyone thought about it.

[paveking1]

What are you nuts,That is huge bioload on the system but if you are willing to change that much water each week god bless you .Thats like $100.00 a month just for water changes.I do biweekly changes on my systems & that cost me $100.00 but for 5 tanks.

[jjj1100]

Here is a pic of my 300g reef right now

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/jjj1100/DSC01441.jpg

Everyone said purple queens don't live...i kept mine for a year and will be selling them for the new FOWLR.

Everyone said ventrallis anthias don't like bright light and high temps, I have a male and 3 females for a year and they are happy as can be.

Achillies tangs dont live...mine is going on a year...

I don't care about $100 for water changes...I am doing that now, and dosing a tooooonnn of chemicals to keep this reef.

I mean I have 60 fish in that reef now and look at all the corals and how nice they look...

I am just wondering about pitfalls other than the money it will cost to do waterchanges which I already am doing anyways

[styndall]

First, don't do this. Know that you're probably going to kill a number of beautiful animals for zero benefit.

Second, make sure the place you've got ready to take your fish as they grow will take as many fish as you've planned to add to your tank. If you're thinking that the local fish shop will take them, make sure they know what they're getting into. If it's a public aquarium that you're counting on, don't. They don't take just any animals.

Third, adding that many fish simultaneously will cause a vast overload in your filtration capabilities. It's not nitrate I'd be worried about, but ammonia that rapidly overwhelms the metabolic capabilities of your filtration system.

Again, don't do this. It might look very beautiful for a brief while until your fish mangle each other and poison themselves with their own waste.

[jjj1100]

Why would I be killing the fish. Adding 10 -2 to 3 inch- butterflies to a 400 gallon total volume aquarium that has been established for 2 years and is loosing 50 fish from it at once, will not casue in ammonia spike. The skimmers and filtration are already dealing with 60 fish...all those fish save three are leaving the tank. I will add the butterflies 1st, add 5 dwarf angles a month later, then 7 to 10 2 to 3 inch large angles another month latter. I may add the puffers and tangs 4 months out.

[styndall]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12313800#post12313800 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjj1100
Why would I be killing the fish. Adding 10 -2 to 3 inch- butterflies to a 400 gallon total volume aquarium that has been established for 2 years and is loosing 50 fish from it at once, will not casue in ammonia spike. The skimmers and filtration are already dealing with 60 fish...all those fish save three are leaving the tank. I will add the butterflies 1st, add 5 dwarf angles a month later, then 7 to 10 2 to 3 inch large angles another month latter. I may add the puffers and tangs 4 months out.

Where are these fish going when you're done with them? That's the important question.

[jjj1100]

A friend of mine owns a LFS...thats where all the antihas and wrasses that I don't sell are going from my reef. He takes my coral, fish, etc. no questions asked. He has plenty of room for them, and knows that I will be doing this as he is going to be ordering the fish. (Note he doesn't think its a great idea either as alot of these fish get ich...but I will QT everything that goes in and wiill do the maintanince without fail.)
It just seems people say oh a 300 gallon...you can have 1 clown fish in there and thats it...well I have successfully had 50 to 60 fish in my reef and grew corals for 2 years. Sure its work, but it can be done as I have demonstrates. People thought I was nutz for keeping all those anthias and wrasses in a reef, but I did it and the fish growth and color was amazing.

[styndall]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12313927#post12313927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjj1100
A friend of mine owns a LFS...thats where all the antihas and wrasses that I don't sell are going from my reef. He takes my coral, fish, etc. no questions asked. He has plenty of room for them, and knows that I will be doing this as he is going to be ordering the fish. (Note he doesn't think its a great idea either as alot of these fish get ich...but I will QT everything that goes in and wiill do the maintanince without fail.)
It just seems people say oh a 300 gallon...you can have 1 clown fish in there and thats it...well I have successfully had 50 to 60 fish in my reef and grew corals for 2 years. Sure its work, but it can be done as I have demonstrates. People thought I was nutz for keeping all those anthias and wrasses in a reef, but I did it and the fish growth and color was amazing.

So are you just trying to push it your stocking to the very point of nitrate toxicity? Listen to your friend. Give your fish a little breathing space. Allow for the possibility that you might have to go out of town for a couple of weeks and not get a water change in.

I don't know who there "people" you mention in your post are. You could do very well and keep a good number of large and beautiful fish for a very long time. You should do that instead of fostering a large number of fish, especially angels that are likely to murder each other. Is your pride at proving "these people" (who, you should note, aren't real) wrong worth killing some gorgeous and interesting fish?


And are you sure your friend is going to be able to put all these fish he's ordering for you into sensible homes? Are you just going to be dumping a bunch of large angels into strangers' 50 gallon tanks? If your friend is going to order you a bunch of incompatible angels for a space vastly too small for them to live and grow in, will he also help people put your fish in a setup like this:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1367205?

[OnoIgotICH]

I actually think it looks pretty nice. If it is working and everything seems good I see no reason to keep it if you can upkeep it.

[paulamrein]

What about the passiveness of the butterflies and the aggression of the angels, triggers, tangs, and puffers. I don't think your problem will be the bioload. I think it will be the big angels, triggers and puffers marking out their territory and having an all out war with YOU losing at the end.
One shouldn't question COULD it be done, one should question SHOULD it be done.

[paulamrein]

I try to say this the nicest way possible, but people with large tanks always think they are invincible. They don't have to worry about over crowding or waste because of their AWESOME TOTAL VOLUME that makes the little people shutter in fear. But then one of the tiniest little life form that is measured in microns comes in and takes out thousands of dollars worth of livestock in a matter of a few days. You've "impressed" us with your ability to keep difficult fish and corals for 2 years. Why don't you USE your experience and accomplishments and receive common sense from your efforts and keep your reef up. You already know it's a bad idea or you wouldn't have even posted the "before the flames come" Freudian slip my friend. You know as well as anyone else you don't have to worry about them getting to adult size to give them to the LFS, I give it a month tops.

[paulamrein]

On a side note there is no way in this green earth there is 60 fish in that pic, I downloaded it blew it up in photoshop and unless there are 40 fish hiding in the rocks I can't say I believe you.

[jjj1100]

old stocking list of my 300
4 ventralis
4 purple queens
4 bartletts
5 squampinis
3 Carburry antihas
10 wrasses
12 misc anthias
3 blue chromis
1 marine betta
1 achillies tang
1 clown goby
1 citron goby
1 mandrin goby
1 niger trigger
1 scoter blenny

....52 fish...sorry I said 50 to 60...52 isnt that far off

I was planning on adding the butterflies first and then 2 to 3 inch angels which shouldn't be that agressive towards butterflies...you say big angels and triggers...I said no fish bigger than 5 incfhes

[jjj1100]

and on a side note...that dude Travis has 66 fish in a 250gallon tank

his fish are large, and like 35 are angels...I have more water volume and am looking to add 2 to 3 inch fish...that is what gets me...people assume the angles go from 2 inches to 6 inches in 6 months...

[paulamrein]

I'm wondering the purpose of this thread if you are doing nothing but trying to convince US it's ok for you to do it. It's your tank, if the only reason you are posting is to scoff at 40 years of tried and true tank husbandry than I guess you have done that. Out side of that, you know it's really over stocked because of the title of the thread. Are we supposed to marvel and your bravery or cutting edge technique? What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this?

[jjj1100]

i understand that its overstocked if I went this route. I am not trying any cutting edge technique. I am simply wondering what peoples thoughts are. With African cichlids, the more there are in a tank within reason, aggression is actually cut down. I was simply asking what people thought.

I would be more than happy to entertain stocking ideas but I don't want 10 fish in the tank. I have no intrest in getting a 2 inch clown trigger, and keeping it for 5 years and having a 14 inch clown. I was going to keep the fish till they grew to a few inches. Wheter I keep them or someone else keeps them, they are still going to be imported, sold, and wind up in someone's tank...

I really don't think 35 fish in this tank is that ludicrous of an idea if they are small. I know it is overstocked, but with proper upkeep I didn't think it would be to much.

What I am trying to accomplish was to have a tank with those fish in it for a year or two.

[pinkie]

There is a big difference between athias' and large angels. I agree, bioload shouldn't be your main concern, aggression should. Puffers, and large angels will kill each other overnight if you aren't careful.

Also, you are mentioning taking out all the fish and only adding a few at the start. That is a huge decrease in ammonia production, and your bacteria is going to rapidly die off, and cause your tank to recycle, causing ammonia spikes.

[reefer334]

Trust Me you will need a bigger tank,
there will be to much stress and the fish will grow quickly outgrowing your tank.
I tried this n a 300 with a 1/3 of the fish on your list and it di not work,it will work for a while but it wll end in failure.
That is a sweet reef why not just keep that and add some predators just leave the puffers off the list.
I have a Titan trigger and a niger in a reef.
I thought the same as you but in the end everyone was right and it did not work.
JUst go through your fish list and only get the fish you really want and cut it down.

Good luck,
Chris

[Big E]

I think you already know that is waaay too many fish. I see a ton of compatability problems with your list also. I'm not gonna flame you but just ask........ wouldn't it be more rewarding to cut that list at least in half & grow these fish to adult size & keep them for 10+ years? That's success in my book.......not 2 years.

You need to do a ton of research on all the species your thinking about & I think you'll be able to trim that list down. Think about compatability & aggression first.

If you do what you propose now, I guarantee you will fail & regret it............most importantly you won't get any enjoyment out of the hobby & it will lead to nothing but frustration & pain.

[tobasdad]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12313374#post12313374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjj1100
Well right now I have a 300gallon reef tank which I am in the process of taking down. I have a 40g sump, and 110g refugium, so discounting rock, I figure I have about 400 gallons of system volume.

The tank itself is 8 feet long, 30 inches wide, 24 inches tall, so its a good footprint.
Right now, I have the tank very heavily stocked for a reef, 30 anthias, 10 wrasses, achiles tang, niger trigger, marine beta, clowns, 3 chromis...so I would say there are 50 to 60 fish.

I do weekly water changes of 100 gallons to keep nitrates to a minuimum, and with the huge refugium have no issues with stabillity.

Here is where I am sure I am going to get aloooot of heat...

I am going to sell all of my fish, except the Achillies tang, niger Trigger, and Mystery Wrasse...so far so good

Now before the flaming comes, I plan on adding all of these fish as changlinings or smaller...meaning no fish added to the tank will be bigger than 3 inches. I HAVE a place to take the fish when they out grow the tank, which I know they will, and there will be aggresion which of course I will watch. I will try to add as many at the same time as possible, but I just want to know everyone's thoughts.


Butterfly’s:
Copper Banded
Blackback (Melannotus Butterfly)
Pakistani
Red Sea Pearlscale
Punctato (Dot-Dash)
Falcula (Double Saddle or False butterfly)
Racoon
Saddleback
RedSea Golden Butterfly (Semilarvatus Butterfly)
Longfin Bannerfish (Black and White Heniochus)
Latticed Butterfly (Chaetodon rafflesi)
Tear Drop (Chaetodon unimaculatas)
Double Saddle (Chaetodon ulietensis)

Angelfish:
Annularis
Bi-color
Coral Beauty
Eibli Pygmy (Orange-lined Angel)
Flame Angel
Flameback Pygmy
Emperor
Leomonpeel
Majestic (Navorachus)
Passer (King)
Potters
Queen
Regal
Rock Beauty
Scribbled

Tangs
Powder Blue
Powder Brown
Naso Tang

Triggers
Huma Huma
Clown Trigger

Puffers
2 or 3 different

Again I will do weekly 100 gallon water changes, or more as Nitrates dictate, but I just wanted to get some thoughts or opinons on this...

call me craazzzzzy...I am sure most will....but before I did I was just wondering what everyone thought about it.

If you can pull it off, best of luck.
It will be awesome to see.
I'd ditch the triggers.
That crowded, you'll quickly start seeing pieces missing from your other fish, plus, butterflies will never get any food with such aggressive feeders.

[greenmonkey51]

I'm doing a kind of similar tank in my 125g with butterflies. Dump the raccoon and do either the falcula or ulietensis and you have a good list of butterflies. Stick to 2-3 non agressive big angels and you'll be ok. A majestic, scibbled, and regal would be a good mix. Tweak the dwarf angels a bit. Drop a couple and you should be good. Personally I wouldn't go with any triggers, but if you're adamant about it. Go with bluejaw or possibly a crosshatch. If you want to do triggers go with a couple Canthigasters. If you do this I think you have a chance at a nice tank.

[JM68]

the rock beauty, potters, and regal angels will be dead in a week along with half of the butterflies, just due to stress. Forget the bioload issue. That amount of fish in that tank is going to cause the more sensitive fish so much stress its not even funny. Not only is it not a good idea from almost any point of view its ethically wrong to do that to those fish.

[Megalodon]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12313374#post12313374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjj1100
Again I will do weekly 100 gallon water changes, or more as Nitrates dictate, but I just wanted to get some thoughts or opinons on this...

call me craazzzzzy...I am sure most will....but before I did I was just wondering what everyone thought about it. Yeah, you're crazy.

It's inhumane and it will result in death. Don't do it.

[niles1967]

How long have you been smoking crack? Those angelfish alone are too much for that tank and will rip each other apart in no time. A fool and his money are about to be parted................ but I care much more about the fish. Don't do it.

Mr Moneybags: buy a much larger tank.

[JazzZero]

DUDE THATS [violation] GOOD TANK IDK WHY YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE IT DOWN. here my 2 cents i personally would cut some of the butterflys and puffer and triggers to make it mainly angelfish. GOOD LUCK

[eshagha]

:)

[mandynm]

A little bit overstocked is one thing, but to purposely buy fish with the intention of getting rid of them when they serve their purpose is absolutely rediculous. It drives me nuts when people buy fish that they know dang well are going to outgrow their tanks but plan on taking them back to a LFS. It's irresponsible.

[Megalodon]

I agree Mandy. Especially since these are wild-caught fish from ecologically sensitive reefs, so the question of ethics transcends that of just the home aquarium.

[paulamrein]

I seriously don't even think this guy is really on the up and up. I am pretty sure there are some "mis-remembering" on his current fish list. And I'm positive he is really not going to go through with it. Like I said, people with huge tanks feel like they are invincible and above the conventional rules of the hobby. I'd rather see him do it, and lose a couple thousand in livestock that way, he'd either give up and take up some other hobby, or get some sense and go what is tried and true. It really sounds like a newbie thing to do. Which is why I totally 100 percent don't believe the claims he is boasting and if it is his tank in that picture, he inherited it. Anyone who worked that hard to accomplish that, wouldn't blow it on a whim.

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: This kind of post is not appreciated here on Reef Central. You have, in effect, called jjj1100 a liar. You have no facts and this is considered "flaming." If you can't post in a helpful manner, best to refrain from posting at all please.

[jjj1100]

[violation]

[jjj1100]

Thank you for the intelligent posts on this thread, I am not going to do what I thought. I do not want the dwarf angels to be scared and die from lack of food or smaller butterflies to not be able to feed....I didnt think that would happen

I will make a new, more intellligent stocking list of what I will do and post again before I add anything to the tank.

and Paul...again I want to see your [violation] tank

[Juice It]

I would look into the dialyseas system from seavisions. It will save a ton of time eliminating water changes. My father in law has one now and swears by it. Good luck with the new fish!

[ladyshark]

I would only add to what has already been stated regarding getting fish while knowing you will only have them for a couple of years, and btw, getting rid of current fish to do this.

You obviously know what you are doing in terms of maintenance, given how gorgeous your current tank is. I, and maybe others on this thread, am having a hard time understanding how your current amazing tank could be so disposable.

These lovely fish after being yanked out of the ocean and shipped at least once, then put in your tank, now going to LFS, then to some other tank, will be put under much stress in thier short lives. Now, you want to turn around and do the same thing to some more fish, for a couple of years, then get rid of them.

I think folks on this thread may be reacting to this aspect of your plan. I percieve most posters here work hard to understand how to put the best tank together that they can, and that includes the primary goal of creating a healthy environment so that the inhabitants can be healthy and happy--not just having a tank that looks cool, although we all want tha too. Its understood that these fish aren't children or dogs, but I think most of us work hard everyday, watching the tank, checking levels, observing our fish for health issues, behaviors, etc. We have taken responsibility for these fish/reefs/inverts and take the responsbility seriously.

These fish are living creatures that did not ask to be in the situations they are in. Frequently, their lives are at stake, and are lost because we make stupid or self-centered mistakes and decisions, are too impatient or impulsive.

The responses you are recieving perhaps stem from a sense of committment that people feel to do it right, based on the sense of responsibility to do it right. I don't think anyone is trying to be overly restrictive toward you--I think the responses stem from mistakes people have made in thier own tanks, for which they feel regret, and they are posting reponses to you to help you avoid thier mistakes. I have certainly made mistakes that killed my fish or prior reef (God rest its soul), and I felt horrible at the time, so I by no means have all the answers, but, I sure don't want to be responsible for more senseless death or stress, either.

The fish were meant to swim in a vast ocean with PLENTY of room between them and other fishes, and to be able to avoid crowds and aggressive territoriality and predators. Put in that perspective, you could have a 600 gallon tank, and it would still be cramped and stunted for these fish, even the small ones.

I myself am guilty of wanting more pets than I can reasonably handle. I have two parrots, two dogs, two cats, three fish tanks. I am always wanting another bird, another cat, another dog. In the past, I would impulsively go forward--once I had 4 dogs--it really became a pack, and it was completely unmanageable. I ended up having to find homes for all but one of them, and it was very sad. Now, I window shop and remind myself that the current set up in my house is just right, and adding another dog/cat/bird will take away from my existing pets and disrupt the balance and routine that they need. Also, I remind myself that getting another animal could ruin my marriage ;)

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the point is, sometimes you have to discipline yourself to think about the whole picture, not just do what you want cuz you think it will be cool.

Finally, I personally don't like the idea of a crowd of fish. To me, it looks chaotic and unnatural--one misses the finer points of the reef itself, or the individual "personalities" of each fish. Putting aside the needs of the fish, I just don't think thick crowds of fish look good, at all. It reminds me of those tanks full to the brim of gold fish at Walmart. I prefer the leasurely "walk in the park" pace of 4 or 5 fish that appear and disappear randomly, in and out of the rocks and crevices. Your set up is more like New York at rush hour.....Blech!

No offense, I'm just sayin.......

[JustinReef]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12322937#post12322937 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jjj1100
[violation]

Wow...Someone is a little bit cranky. The funny thing about his post is that it actually makes it sound more like that is not his tank. You attack his career even?

I hate these threads...guy posts looking for comments/advice about his new, great plan but just argues and gets ****ed when people remind him that new, great plan is actually a horrible idea. Why do people like you even post? Your never going to listen to anyone anyways. Your going to do it anyways...why did you need to tell us all???

[Reefcherie]

I'll probably regret not closing this thread right now - because I don't see it going anywhere useful. It is now on my watch list.

At the very least, please remember that this is a family-friendly board. As such, outright cussing and creative evasion of the profanity censor are both equally unwelcome. Please don't quote posts with foul language - it just spreads it and gives moderators more places to have to clean up.

If a given post or the whole topic upsets you, your choices are to reply calmly or choose not to reply at all.

Thanks for your future cooperation!

Reefcherie
RC Moderator

[dorm_reefer21]

dont bash the guy, let him do the tank if he wants, if he kills the fish, he will realize that it was not a good idea.

and why does everyone keep saying stuff about nitrates, nitrates affect algae growth and little else, you have to worry about nitrites and ammonia as far as fish and inverts go. someone said something about nitrate toxification earlier, the fish would die from nitrites and ammonia before that happens, not trying to call anyone out or anything just trying to share a bit of seemingly lesser known knowledge.

[paulamrein]

I trully deeply apologize for my accusations it just seemed like you were willing to throw all of your hard work away for something that sounds like something someone who is new would do. Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of the replies I got from that post wasn't very pc. And forgive me for not catching the full meaning behind your post due to the moderation, but I would guess I hit a button. And from other comments it appears also that you made some personal comments as well which isn't at all appreciated. Which would probably go to show the caliber of integrity you posses.

[ladyshark]

Reefcherie,

Is that an orange sponge in your avatar? Sweet!

[2dawghouse]

Who here needs a hug?

[Plato]

jjj1100, Your idea will work with out killing tons of fish. I have a 275 72x24x36 mixed reef. The tank has been established for about five years. I spent over a year to fill the tank with fish adding additions every month ranging from 10 to 30 fish. Now as of today I have about 40 fish some one foot long some damsles. Most are angels, big angels, tangs, a little of every ting. The tank gets feed lots of food. I run a My Reef Creation 3 dual becket skimmer with a blue line 55, I changed the way it works to copy a reef conceps skimmer but that has greatly reduced efficency. I will be fixing that soon. I don't know when the lats time I did a water change was. The tank maintains about 25 -30 ppm nitrate testing with a medusa colorimiter an sea test reagents. I expect once I fix the skimmer an resume normal water changes I will be able to maintain lower nitrate levels. My tank has many beautiful fish they leave my sps aloan but I can't keep clams. My fish all went in in groups such as tang, angels, and so on. My angels went in last in a two month period, in two seperat additions. They all went in as small juvinals, so now as they are growing up together they tollerated each other better, my imperor has started his color change actually been in the process about two months, very exciting. I use Firtz Turbo start 900 live bacteria to speed cycle the tank, it is added every time new fish are added to prevent amonia spikes. The largest ammonia spike I got using it was about .10 to .17, rember this is when adding like 10-15 fish at a time with out slacking off on feeding.

[Reefcherie]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12327103#post12327103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ladyshark
Reefcherie,

Is that an orange sponge in your avatar? Sweet!

Oh my - no! That is Fuggly, my frogfish! He did a very good sponge imitation though. :D

[TheSaltwaterGuy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12364611#post12364611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefcherie
Oh my - no! That is Fuggly, my frogfish! He did a very good sponge imitation though. :D

:lol: Fuggly, nice name!

What made you think of it? :lol:

[JazzZero]

HAHAH this is too flipping funny there are so many violations haha

[Megalodon]

OK, jjj1100 said he's not going to go through with it.

Our work here is done.

And yes, I would like a hug, thanks. :)

[clekchau]

it can be done but alot of work.

alot of hong kong style aquariums thriving, personally i think it looks overcrowded but the fish seem to thrive in the lockerroom style environment if the tank is maintained properly

here is a guy doing it,

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I3/angelfish/Angelfish.htm

[clekchau]

oh and fyi, alot of the advice you recieve on rc are from people who have never actually have first hand experience but they heard/saw/thought about it, so take advice with a grain of salt and do your research :)

[Brent Thomann]

Jeff, don't bother wasting your time! You're obviously getting to many opinions going this route in a public forum. Just talk to the people that are more familiar with your goals. I know there are quite a few of them in our area.

Your current reef is amazing and I'm sure your new fish only tank will be even more amazing! Keep up your hard work, it doesn't go unnoticed!

[rafael13]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12327642#post12327642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2dawghouse
Who here needs a hug?



:lol:
best post, ever

[rafael13]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12327642#post12327642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 2dawghouse
Who here needs a hug?



:lol:
best post ever


so good we name it twice (sorry for the double post)

[reeferaddiction]

this is what your fts will look like
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd212/reeferaddiction/lotsoffishlg.jpg

[jamest0o0]

glad to see you cahnged your mind

[Brent Thomann]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12450066#post12450066 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamest0o0
which is very frustrating, but what can you do?

Try not to take these boards to personal, not worth it. There's much better things that you could be doing with your time ;)

[jamest0o0]

I accidently only read first page = /

[RichardS]

Within reason I don't see a problem with putting alot of fish in a large aquarium as long you can maintain water quality. Which really isn't all that difficult to do. Funny that people are ok with one tang in a 55 gallon tank where the tang has 4 square feet of swimming space but then freak out over too many fish in a tank like yours where each individual fish has access to 20 square feet of swimming space.

As for your proposed stocking there are two big issues. First is that there are too many fish which attain a large adult size. If you really don't mind removing them just when they get large and beautiful then I guess that's not such an issue. The bigger problem is that you have a number of compatibility issues. For example, I've seen a passer completely take over a 300 gallon tank and literally chase other fish out of the water.

Your setup with the anthias, wrasses and corals is beautiful. It's a nice selection of compatible fish. Why do you want to tear it down?

[RichardS]

One other note, building a nice collection of healthy butterflies can be quite a challenge. So you might want to rethink the idea if your thinking that you will just sell them when get big and replace them with smaller ones.

[mrwilson]

This is perhaps kind of a threadjack, but in an attempt to turn this thread into something that might be more productive, I noticed that in one of the OP's posts he mentioned that he has successfully kept purple queen anthias for over a year. That is very good luck, or a real accomplishment (or both). I would be very interested in hearing all about his experience with them, husbandry and feeding techniques, etc.

[LiveRock27]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12364611#post12364611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefcherie
Oh my - no! That is Fuggly, my frogfish! He did a very good sponge imitation though. :D

Wouldn't this be a creative evasion of the profanity censor?

[MonkeyKeeper911]

your tank is awesome why would u take it down. i love when people put a lot of fish in their tank it looks awesome KEEP IT UP PLEASE

[jjj1100]

I have since completly re-thought the stocking list. I was unaware that the large angels, triggers would out compete the butterflies for food...never really thought about that. Thank you for that advice.

Now I am going to do around 6 dwarf angels, 3 large angels (scribbled, annularis, novaruchus...maybe), at most 4 or 5 hardy butterflies, 3 tangs, 3 triggers, 2 snow flake eels, and 2 or 3 hardy puffers.

As far as keeping the purple queens in my reef, i was lucky becuase I was housing them with about 20 or so other anthias and they must have watched them eat, and sort of mimiked them. I had no issues keeping them, they schooled together and ate everything I put in the tank...they were slightly thin though as I couldn't feed the tank 3x a day due to the corals and nitrate issues that would have casued.

[jeremyBass]

that sounds nice in theory but r u aware that some of those fish are only suppost to havr one of that breed in a tank due to aggression issues????? i hope you've done your homework on eack individual fish. i just spent 2 hours learning about the FU MANCHU lionfish we just bought.........personally i think your going to be very disapointed when all of your fish start to die if not from each other then from toxins......good luck

[Ritten]

jjj1100 have you read "Ultimate Marine Aquariums" by Michael S. Paletta. Starting at page 84 the book features a 300 gallon Angel and Butterfly Reef and talks in depth about that tank. The owner of the tank has 20 fish (angels and butterflys), they look adult size to me, not juvenile size. This featured tank talks about just this kind of controversy and this man's success with his tank.

[SoulFish]

nice tank, if the parameters are fine then the tank is fine. Nice tank. Thats the main diff in fish keepers and coral keepers. Coming from FW we have heavy stocked tanks. Myself in included, not in number but in actual size of hte fish. The main concern is ammonia and nitrates if those are in check your fish will be fine, like the other guy said watch aggression. At the slightest sign pull the aggressor out to keep the peace.

My 250 has:
6 Datnoids: to 12"es
2 Bichirs: to 15"es
1 Arowana: to 15"es
1 Royal Pleco: to 5"es
1 Fire Eel: to 10"es
1 Clown Loach: to 5"es
1 Mono: to 6"es

[Big E]

jjj1100,

That looks like a much more doable list..........do some searches on this site on each fish you intend to buy & get a good idea of what to expect.

As far as the butterflies..........the Golden Semis, Saddleback,& the Racoon should be able to compete for food no problem. The rest of the butterflies on your list won't have an easy time. They react slow to food & are more timid.

Auriga, Burgess,Mitratus are a few others that should do well.

[coast2coast7390]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12364611#post12364611 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefcherie
Oh my - no! That is Fuggly, my frogfish! He did a very good sponge imitation though. :D

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12453088#post12453088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LiveRock27
Wouldn't this be a creative evasion of the profanity censor?

i dont see why it is...its only a name

now see if it was used as an adjective then i could see it used as a creative evasion of the profanity sensor

[ksanmamaril]

worth the read :bum:
Sounds like a day time drama :D

[silvers]

Just do it. If you can keep peram. in check then go for it.

[joesynodontis]

I aslo noticed that my fish mimiks feeding habits of the more agressive fish in my tank. I tried to feed nori to my tank earlier last year and no one knew how to eat it until i added a fish that showed everyone that is ok to eat it. i like this thread, people here can just let it out. jjj11oo you got a nice tank

[rachenbrazil]

Wayne Shang tank is really unusual with all those angels and one couple of sermilavatus butterfly... pushing his equipment to limit ans he did perform huge water changes... one more thing... he does not have any trigger (too agressive) and tangs (too disease prone) inside.... maybe if you wish a tank full of angels...should be full of angels only....

[zachtos]

Bump*

Curious to see how many days it took for those fish to annihilate eachother.

[LisaD]

and on a side note...that dude Travis has 66 fish in a 250gallon tank

I hate seeing this tank referenced (article on WWM) about the obscenely over-crowded tank. I've never seen an update on "that dude" Travis's tank. I would REALLY like to know what's happened since Pete Giwojna wrote that article.

I'd bet the tank is nothing like it was planned, if it still exists at all. some people have more money than sense.

FYI, article on community angelfish tank:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/V4I3/angelfish/Angelfish.htm

[Plato]

Well, here is an update. My last post almost eight months agao. Tank is doing fine. Skimmer fix help nitrates, no down to 5ppm with Salifert. Emperor Angel has adult color pattern. He has been in for around four years. I have taken out a valamingi tang and a Malicious angel, they got too big. I did inventor their are 46 fish, most large. I do 10% water changes weekly, standard cleaning. My other tank is a 525 set up now for six months, I am up to 78 fish, all around 3" to 4". The tank checked 10ppm nitrate today. It gets 10 gallon water changes a day. Like 13% weekly. My next tank due in about three months will be 600 gallon. 96x30x48, this is to house my big fish that have outgrown my 275. This tank will have a huge biomass due to the large fish and future to be large fish.

[karaim]

The tank will be overcrowded NOW. You don't have to wait for all the fish to grow up. Not a good idea. It's good that you decided not to do it. Here were my suggestions:

Don't keep butterflies with triggers.
Don't keep that many large and centropyge angels together.
Don't keep 3 puffers together - I don't see this working out.

[CA2OR]

Beautiful tank.

[danorth]

Man, my tank is borderline over crowded with:

4 triggers
3 angels
2-soon to be 3 tangs
1 big wrasse
2 damsels
1 clownfish

If you got most of those fish as juvi's, and I mean the 1" size as I've seen at the wholesalers, then you could do it without problem. But I don't think you'll have that kind of luck.

[Snapper66]

I for one will not Judge you I have alot of Fish in my Tanks to,if You are able to keep the Tank Healthy and your Fish are Doing okay Do what works for You.As far as Turning in Fish to a LFS use your own Judgement if people like it or not.There is some good advice Here from people they have Concerns for the Fish I am sure.I would try to keep those Fish personaly You have a once in a Life Time Tank it is so Beautiful You dont know what you got untill it is Gone.It is your Tank do what You want to and feel is Right and live with the Choice.;)

[saltyguy51]

You should have know better than to put that on here. Nice tank you have, but you must be bored with it, so its time to move on, huh? Have fun!

[saltyguy51]

After reading more of this I wonder why so many people would even confine and bring a fish out of its habitate and put it in to a glass cage for its whole like if it makes it if your that concerned about the fish and tear a person up for his idea. You and I know we do this for our enjoyment!!

[Snapper66]

You are right saltyguy51 We do this for are enjoyment not the Fish.Truly if we all were so Noble and cared about the Fish so Much we would leave them in their Natural World the Sea.With that being said I Dont plain on Giving up my Kidnapped Pets.:D

[AquaKnight]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14374275#post14374275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by saltyguy51
After reading more of this I wonder why so many people would even confine and bring a fish out of its habitate and put it in to a glass cage for its whole like if it makes it if your that concerned about the fish and tear a person up for his idea. You and I know we do this for our enjoyment!!
The difference is attitude. The way the OP stated everything was that he was going to do everything he wanted, didn't matter what anyone said, and seemed like he wanted to attack established guidelines for some reason.

If the OP didn't sound so bash, like a teenager that just got told off my his mommy, the thread would have gone a completely different way. How much better would this sound "I appreciate everyone's thought and concerns. I am undertaking this project to see what is truly capable by perhaps unconventional means." As opposed to what the OP came off as "I'm going to stuff a bunch of fish in my, and na-na, there's nothing anyone can do."

[saltyguy51]

To each there own how you want to take it