The old oxygen reactor.

[Young Frankenstein]

Can someone tell me how it worked and what exactly it did ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think an oxygen reactor (as opposed to an ozone reactor) simply puts tank water in contact with somewhat pressurized air for long enough to drive O2 into the water. It is not a nutrient reduction method.

I'm sure Boomer can expound further on them. :)

[Boomer]

Randy is correct partly/mostly :)

A true O2 reactor and a true O3 reactor are exactly the same and work exactly the same. The only difference is that the air feeding the O3 reactor has air + O3 and not just air. So, they are really a O2/O3 reactor.

Pressurized units also driver in more O3, as it is also a gas like O2/air, thus are more efficient and need less O3 than a non-pressurized O3 reactorsand drive in more O3 into the water. We control them both by internal air pressure, which is monitored with a pressure gauge, although you do not have to have a gauge. The pressure is ~ 5- 10 psi but we have run then up to+ 20 psi, which is kinda scary :lol: Both are just modified CO2 reactors. In a pure O2 reactor like this about ~ 5 psi drives in just less than 1 ppm O2, depending.

None of these reactors on the market now are "perfect" reactors and the only one worth a damn is the MTC, for $350. I helped a design a couple many years ago that Lumar had that was a almost "perfect" reactor, as it never had to have a air bleeder line on it. It used an electronic float switch to control the water level in the reactor, which controlled the air/O3 input. We never got to the last mod, which was to use a industrial spray nozzle that would atomize air/O3 and where you would not need an filter material like bio-bail or bioballs. However, Leo, at MTC, did add my nozzle to theirs but not the float switch. They later dropped it, as the Nozzle was just to expensive. Another mod is to not run the air in from the top but from an internal line near the bottom and located in the center of the reactor that faces upwards. This will also make it more efficient as there will be counter-current exchange form the rising air and down coming water. My "perfect" one may be out later :)


Here is a DIY unit
http://www.thesea.org/reef_aquarium/DIY/reactors/reactors_ozone.php

Water is fed to the top of the reactor, it falls on a drip plate, where the water then falls on the bio-balls. The water then falls to the bottom "its sump". Air is fed in at the top and as the pressure increases inside the reactor the air acts like a giant piston, which pushes the water down the reactor and up and out the return line, via air pressure to the tank or sump. This reactor has no air bleed line on it and would need one or be mod with a float switch.

Why the bleed line or float switch ? As you can see in the diagram that big return will be an issue. As the water is pushed down, at some time all the water will be gone and all that air inside that reactor will now leave out through the output line. If it hits you tank or sump it will sound like a bomb going off and there will be water everywhere and all kinds of crap floating around :lol: Since the reactor has lost all its pressure the reactor will fill right back up with water and the cycle will continue. Even the best needle value can not stop if form happening. How about a wee-tad less pressure ? So, what happens now ? Well, the reactor now just fills up with water right to the top, so what good is it.

We install a small dia bleed line right next to the bottom of the large return line inside the reactor and about 1/2 in above it. This line is now the one that is going to get the down coming air /water column "piston". Some of the air will leave through that small tube, which can be further fine tuned with a needle value. So, now, as the column comes down just a small amount of air leaves through that tubend blleds to the sump. It is just enough for the reactor to loose just a tad of its pressure, thus the water levels starts to rise until it reaches its pressure " point ", where it stops and it stars all over again. This causes the water column to go up and down just an inch or two. So, we now have a crude self-leveling water/ air controller. This is how the MTC works, as did the L-Cheap-O form Coral life, which belongs in the "G File" I believe that is where Randy filed his :)

The MTC O2/O3 reactor
http://www.marinetechnical.com/obj231geo70pg6p8.jpg

[Young Frankenstein]

Can anyone else comment, also bertony and billy ?

[Young Frankenstein]

Is this anny better than feeding ozon with a venturi? and perhaps + a needlewhel working at same time supplying o2

[Boomer]

That would be better than say some other means O but not a reactor, as O2 is function of pressure and also temp and Salinity. The needle valve would generate a little extra pressure at the Air/water bubble interface. So, your idea is a good one IMHO.

[Young Frankenstein]

Boomer I have this skimmer working already !!! and the way I have it setup is I use one pump with ventury to dose ozone, and when not dosing for regular skimming I use a needlewheel pump. I found out when both pumps work, and I am dosing ozone+oxygen the skimming turns from green to white to less volume of white skimate.......and the end is theres nothing comming out of the skimmer anymore....zero skimmate. This procedure takes about 24hrs ttl. The water is crystal clear.

[Boomer]

OK 0 :D

[fish02]

Boomer do you know of any saltwater worthy atomizers? I could only find pressure nozzles for pressure nozzles or brass atomizers.

[Young Frankenstein]

whats an atomizer ?

[fish02]

An atomizer makes the water into tiny tiny droplets. Think fancy perfume bottle with a squeeze bulb. The fine mist of perfume that comes out when the bulb is squeezed is created by an atomizer.

[Young Frankenstein]

what does it do to saltwater?

[Boomer]

fish


It is not that they have to be a true Atomizing Nozzle, as seawater "atomizes" easier than FW. So one can look to Fog or Misting nozzles. I do not remember which nozzle Leo from MTC chose. I just put him in contact years ago with a company that had a nozzle that would do the trick of "atomizing" seawater. In our phone conversation he told me it was exactly perfect for what we talked about.

Here is a list. You should just call one of them and them what you are looking for

http://www.thomasnet.com/products/fog-nozzles-53910204-1.html





0

what does it do to saltwater?

The smaller the drops the more O2 or O3 is adsorbed into the water. Think how a trickle filter works. As the water drips down and the air is forced upwards the water picks up O2. If the drops are smaller it will be able to pick up more O2. A very efficient O2 reactor will need no filter media as the water coming down is "atomized" and the air going up through the down coming column will look like a protein skimmer kinda' but instead of being mostly water and some air it will be mostly air and some water. The inside of the O2 reactor will look like a tumbling fog bank. When this happens it is running a max efficiency, giving the highest O2 you can get if the internal air pressure is low. If the internal air pressure is high it is even more efficient.

So why so drip units use filter media ? Because the filter media allows the water to form a thin film on it. The thinner the film of water on the media the more O2 is adsorbed. This follows the same principal as the fog/atomize application but is not near as good.

[Young Frankenstein]

I am getting alot of ideas for my next DIY project here :D boomer just let me know before I go too far with this :D

[Young Frankenstein]

Randy do you see any benefit from the Atomizer ?

[Boomer]

Randy is not here anymore ;)

[Young Frankenstein]

Ok hehe :hmm6: I saw that after posting this thread :wavehand: Randy........ :blown: Boomer:blown: do you see any other benefits from the atomizer (I like the name) man just to say i have an "ATOMIZER" is worth doing the DIY project.

[Boomer]

Well you can get some made from SS if your want :)

[Young Frankenstein]

Whats SS Boomer?

[Boomer]

Stainless Steel ;)

[fish02]

Stainless Steel

Just the info I was looking for. One cafted from 316 grade SS shoud do the trick.

I'm off to see a man about an atomizer.

Do you think a SS pressure gauge filled with glycerine or oil would do the trick also?

Sorry about the questions. I'm just on an info gathering binge so I can get my ozone off of my skimmer and also have a cool new piece of equipment to play around with.

[Boomer]

That psi gauge maybe OK also. Mine were just cheap std psi gauges filled with nothing, as in a Solar weston psi gauge, 0 -15 psi

[Young Frankenstein]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12367902#post12367902 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fish02
Stainless Steel

Just the info I was looking for. One cafted from 316 grade SS shoud do the trick.

I'm off to see a man about an atomizer.

Do you think a SS pressure gauge filled with glycerine or oil would do the trick also?

Sorry about the questions. I'm just on an info gathering binge so I can get my ozone off of my skimmer and also have a cool new piece of equipment to play around with. Do you think it can be more effective than a skimmer ?

[fish02]

As per Boomer with one minor spelling correction, changed driver to drive:

Pressurized units also drive in more O3, as it is also a gas like O2/air, thus are more efficient and need less O3 than a non-pressurized O3 reactorsand drive in more O3 into the water.

A skimmer is not a pressurized vessel. Let's think of it in terms of soda, or for those of you in the midwest, pop. You west coast people probably have some weird name for it. If I took the water and ran it into a skimmer feed by CO2, then there would hardly be any bubbles, if any, because the pressure is atmospheric working to get the CO2 to be absorbed into the water.

Now in a pressurized compartment, one at greater than atmosphere, the CO2 is essentially forced to be dissolved into the water thus making it way more effective. As a matter of fact an auarium O3/O2 reactor is essentially the same thing as a carbonation chamber only much smaller.

I can't seem to find Solar/Westons website.

Edit: Added the word essentially.

[Boomer]

Do you think it can be more effective than a skimmer ?

Of course it is. Even a non-pressurized unit is better than a skimmer.



0, lets expand somewhat on fishO2 post. You have heard of high room air CO2 lowering the pH right ? And if you open the window the CO2 goes out and the pH goes back up right ? Well, the reason the pH is low from that high room air CO2 is the room air has more CO2 and more CO2 = more CO2 pressure and that pressure drives the CO2 into the tank. So, you house is like a big reactor kinda.

FishO2

Mine has that name on it but it is like 15 years old. There is or was a company called Solar Weston. I can't find it either. It looks like this one, only 0 -15 psi. I'm sure a higher quality gauge would be better.

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc_lg.asp?ref=PGC&Nav=PREG02

[Young Frankenstein]

So a spray or multiple spray nozzles connected to a little giant 1200gph and spray in a chamber will do ? will that be a start?

[fish02]

I was looking at this one last night:

PGM-63L-15PSI/1BAR

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=PGM_Series&Nav=preg05

solid stainless steel. I don't want to risk any copper contamination.

[Young Frankenstein]

Why do you need the pressure gage fish?

[Boomer]

Yes fish02 that is true, a good idea. If there is any H20 in the ozone line it can react with it and produce nitric acid which will react with the brass. If run it that way. If you run it the other way, just a pressure gauge on top of reactor, like the MTC, there is much less risk, but water vapor and ozone gas can still get to it. We had a guy here post some pics a couple of years ago that had a blue copper liquid coming out of his brass fitting when he took it off. It was an inline valve for his ozone line post ozonizer. I'll bet there was 1/2 eye dropper of it.

0

To know how much pressure there is inside the reactor just like the pic above. You need to run them around 5- 10 psi.

[9toes]

here is my ozone system,it was a DIY...
<a href="http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc15/fishman50/?action=view&current=apr08001.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc15/fishman50/apr08001.jpg" border="0" alt="DIY ozone/carbon reactor"></a>
<a href="http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc15/fishman50/?action=view&current=apr08003.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc15/fishman50/apr08003.jpg" border="0" alt="ozone system"></a>

[fish02]

Hey 9toes, that's awesome!

Do you have a parts list or DIY thread?

[9toes]

I actually got the parts from a few places,tap plastics(at tapplastics.com) had the 3" x 20" acrylic tubes and pre-cut 5" acrylic circles as well as the adhesive. Aquaticeco.com had the PVC fittings,gauge,drill bits,taps and nylon nuts and bolts. Local auto parts store for the gasket material. Home depot for the hole saw and PVC glue. I'm sure I forgot something,let me know if you have anymore questions,costly project,around $325 for everything but that's with the one time cost of the bits,taps and hole saw,if you're on Long Island(Suffolk County) you can borrow my bits and taps if you want and save some cash.Hope this helped.

[Boomer]

toes, nice unit

What or how are you going to control the burping ? Did you read my long post on this thread ? The reactor in the second pic looks like it is full of water ?

[A.T.T.R]

wernt you building a diy ozone reactor? how did that workout i never saw the finished product

[Young Frankenstein]

Thats working great pushing about 300-400 mg of ozone

[fish02]

I'm wondering if PVC with float switch installed to control the H2O level in the ozone reactor would work. It would make this project extremely affordable. Also would the float switch turn off the air pump or the water pump?

I never realized how much acrylic or clear PVC tubing was. Once you hit three inches the price seems to balloon.

[Boomer]

wernt you building a diy ozone reactor? how did that workout i never saw the finished product

Me no, I was hoping to bring one of my designs to a company I now . I'm not a builder at all :)

Fish

Turn off the air only.

Will it work ? Of course it will :) There are lots of ways of doing it.

Once you hit three inches the price seems to balloon.

3 " :)

My custom made one is 6 " and 3 feet tall ;)

Maybe I could take a pic of it, e-mail it to someone and they can post for me with photobucket like 9toes did :D

[Young Frankenstein]

BOOM BOOM THE BOOMER :D I am now starting to work with a high preasure skimmer :) Imagine the explosion :D

[9toes]

I fill the second chamber with carbon,it's only partially filled in the picture,unit then drains into sump.

[Boomer]

No, how do you control the water level in the reactor or is it you do not ?

[9toes]

I adjust the amount of air via the valve on top maintaining about 3 inches in the bottom of the reactor at all times,haven't had any problem yet.

[Boomer]

Yes, but how do you keep it there at 3" ? One can not adjust air just right and leave it, so the level does not go up or down. In time it will either fill itself or empty itself, be it in 5 min , 45 min. , 10 hr. 1 day etc.. That is why you should have "burp" line or float switch. It maintains the same level 24/7. Maybe you are just not seeing it burp, especially if the air fraction is just a tad higher. The water will get to the bottom of the output tube in time, evacuate all its air, loose pressure and then fill back up to about normal level. The entire amount of air in the reactor will leave the output and be discharged into your carbon unit.

Do you have to have a burp line ? No, mine does not have one but I ran it different that yours. The output went right to the tank , not a good idea. A cubic foot of air hitting a tank a 8 psi is like a bomb going off :lol: I had to take it apart and add a temp. burp line. The issue with no burp or float switch is the unit looses efficiency. If you are running ozone and yours burps all that O3/Air to the carbon it is being wasted, i.e., carbon and ozone.

[eznet2u]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12381946#post12381946 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 9toes
I adjust the amount of air via the valve on top maintaining about 3 inches in the bottom of the reactor at all times,haven't had any problem YET .

[Young Frankenstein]

Anyone knows a DIY thread for the oxygen reactor ?

[fish02]

Let the reverse engineering begin!

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn100/au6146/O2-3Reactor2001.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn100/au6146/O2-O3Reactor001.jpg

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn100/au6146/O2-O3Reactor002.jpg

From the email

"Mounted and running down the side is the "Air block", manifold. The air enters the top of the block and then travels down the tube and enters through the side of the reactor at the bottom. There is a reason for this design. This allows the air to travel from the bottom of the reactor to the top of the reactor as the water is coming down. It thus creates counter-current exchange like the old air stone skimmers making it more efficient. All other reactors just add air to the very top of the reactor and above the drip plated. All this does is pressurize the unit."

I hope it's ok with you that I posted the description you gave me of the air feed line.

Thanks Boomer!

Now is it a single air inlet or is it split into multiple air outlets?

[Boomer]

The needle value on the top, behind the pressure gauge, is what I used for controlling the air for the reactor internal air pressure. So, I used it as a air outlet "bleed" line. It is not a "burp' line. The second barbed fitting is what I used as the air input form the air pump. The plugged end just allows you to use it as a main feed input if you wish and then use the barbed fitting for some other use as an air output line.

[Young Frankenstein]

What the bio balls do?

[Boomer]

In this kind of reactor you need to slow down the speed of the water falling for 2 reasons.

1. The water will have more dwell time and adsorb more O2/O3

2. The drops are rather large, which reduces their ability to pick-up O2/O3 efficiently somewhat. The balls allow the water drops to thin out on the balls, so their thickness is less, which increases adsorption of O2/O3. If the water is atomized then you do not really need them.

[fish02]

If the water is atomized then you do not really need them.

That answers a question I had. I am going to build an ozone reactor out of 4 inch PVC parts readily available at Lowes. I don't need to see the inside of the reactor. I just need to figure out some other things for the internal parts because the smallest PVC size they have is 1/2 inch.

[Young Frankenstein]

Boomer will my atomizer keep my ph better than my skimmer ? as far as aerating the water?
Can I start with something simple as a little giant and a simple atomizer I found at HD?

[Young Frankenstein]

I found this Atomizer :D
http://www.automatedaquariums.com/co2_inst.pdf

[Boomer]

That is for CO2 gas and not water, so I don't know how well it would work.

[Young Frankenstein]

I tried the little giant 1300 gph today for pressure........ quak quak nada no good, any ideas for a pump? I will also post in the DIY forum, but boomer, any ideas for a pump that will give me good pressure ?

[Boomer]

0 you are very confused and have not understood any of these threads on O3/O2 reactors :) It is not a water pump that gives the pressure it is a air pump. Air not water is what pumps the water back to the tank. A water pump is just to put water into the reactor. I have even run them with no water pump, just gravity feed.

[Young Frankenstein]

Boomer I am building a "ATOMIZER" that will skim by making the light foam on top of the water, and at the same time oxygenate the water better. A new kind of oxygen reactor!!

[fish02]

Boomer I am building a "ATOMIZER" that will skim by making the light foam on top of the water, and at the same time oxygenate the water better. A new kind of oxygen reactor!!

:confused:

I am going to feed my reactor with a small water pump through my atomizer and pressurize the chamber with a tetra luft pump running through my ozotech. Their is going to be a float switch to turn the luft pump on and off to maintain a constant water level so that no burping is needed.

[Boomer]

Sounds good Fish :) Most of us use/ed the Lufta pump

[Young Frankenstein]

I know this gets confusing.........but is a new type of skimmer, oxygen reactor combo. I think it will skim way better than traditional skimmers+keep PH more stable.