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View Full Version : Almost throwing the towel in!


M1ST
04/22/2008, 04:59 PM
Hi All,

So I took the big leap a few months ago from a largely LPS tank to an SPS tank. The system remained the same approx 700 litre system (combined main tank - 5x2x2 and sump). Lit up by 2x250watt Halides and 2x54 watt actinics. I decided while I was at it I would change the aqua scaping, my chance to get rid of the old rock and add in some reef bones that I could shape the way I wanted.

Once all this was done and the parameters were in sync, the old rock went into the sump while the bones in the main tank started up. To kick start this process I was adding carbon in the forms of Vodka and Sugar. I started adding SPS to what I thought was a system with good parameters. After losing colonies by the day I started wondering what could be going wrong.

Anyway, after much headache and re-testing with different test kits my alk was sitting at 14 DKH and could potentially have been the cause of SPS stripping when coupled with carbon dosing.

So, in came new test kits, I then re-balanced the system to 8.5 DKH, Calcium 425, Mag 1380, Phos 0.015, but the nitrates sat at 50. I then re-started the Vodka dosing in the hope that Nitrates would fall but still kept on losing SPS rapidly. Speaking to lots of fellow reefers and hearing stories about keeping SPS in high nitrate systems made me wonder if Nitrates was really the cause of the problem here.

Whilst continueing the Vodka dosing, the old rock in the sump was done away with as by now the bones had been in for almost 4 months, I thought perhaps that potassium may be low but when tested it was perfect. The idea of Iodine also but no problems there either. With colonies going by the day I've come to hit a wall, with Nitrates refusing to go down from 50 and trying almost everything under the sun (Should have mentioned 100 litre water changes weekly) to get through this and I have to say I'm fast losing hope.

The one last resort was to remove my large fish Regal Tang, Purple Tang, minimise feeding and keep up the Carbon dosing up. Well the fish have now gone and my fingers are crossed. Could it be that I have missed something very simple??? or even more complicated?!

Thanks!!!

HBtank
04/22/2008, 05:43 PM
How is your coraline growing?

NealNano
04/22/2008, 10:30 PM
How long did you let the tank cycle for? After doing something major like re-aquascaping and adding new live rock. You want to let the tank run for at least 1-2 months before adding corals to the tank. Before you start adding sps you want to have nickle size coarline spots growing. To lower nitrates stop using sugar and vodka!!!! DO WATER CHANGES!!!! This removes the bad stuff and adds the good stuff.

mpoletti
04/22/2008, 10:51 PM
I agree, don't rely of vodka and sugars, but on water changes your reefing skills that got you to the point to attempt SPS :)

OnlyCrimson
04/22/2008, 11:01 PM
Vodka dosing should really only be attempted on very stable tanks with fairly low nutrients in order to get them down even lower. I think your problems stem from other maintainance issues.

photobret
04/23/2008, 12:10 AM
WC's all the way. Try Prodibio instead of Vodka and sugar. Has worked wonders on my system and is hard to overdose. I would agree though, let your tank settle for a few months and then start with easy SPS.

photobret
04/23/2008, 12:12 AM
Give us an equipment list, skimmers pumps, sump, fuge?

M1ST
04/23/2008, 03:22 AM
The system was setup in Septmber last year. The coraline started growing very very slowely. But now seems to have covered the wier and is growing on the base of the tank but again very slowely.

The equipment list is as follows:

Deltec APF600 Skimmer
Schuran Jet Stream 1 Calcium reactor
2 x Vortechs
4 foot sump

No Sandbed or refugium. I'm still doing weekly water changes of 80-100 litres.

Kolognekoral
04/23/2008, 04:09 AM
Sounds like you are still not clear on the methods of caron dosing. There is so much 'wonder' info running about. I would recommend you checkout the Zeovit Forum for more general info on ULNS using carbon dosing.

First, you should aim for NSW conditions and use the best quality test kits to get there. Water changes should not be larger than 10% per week, otherwise you will unstabilize the system.

As you are attempting to create a bacterial driven system, you should consider using a marine zeolith as filter. An excellent skimmer is already there! Carbon should always be dosed in a mixture. Only one or two carbon types will favour a limited bacterial fauna that will generally collapse after a short period, say less than 6 months. When this happens, typically there is a sudden O2 deficit, which crashes the system in general. In stead of playing with your own carbon dosing system, it is wiser to use one of the proven systems on the market. (Zeovit, Prodobio, FaunaMarin) Pick the one that suites your schedule and stay with it. (study them first! They are related, but not the same.) Don't mix systems as they are designed to work with their own strains of bacteria and carbon sources.

I would, also, recommend an aragonite sand on the bottom. I've experiemented with DSB and find one does not need so much sand with the ULNS set-ups. Rather about 2-3"/5-8cm of sand is fine. If you plan to keep wrasses (Labridae), then go for the higher level. Do not use coarse sand-gravel. This simply makes a refuge for detritus, if it lies too deep.

I think you are on the right wavelength, just need to adjust the process a bit. If you have other questions, send me a PM.

M1ST
04/23/2008, 07:48 AM
Thanks for your reply Jamie, I should have mentioned I have also been trying the FaunaMarin supplements. In particular the Ultra-bio and the Ultra-Bak, but no budge on the nitrates yet.

I probably didnt have the best of luck with the Salifert test kits, but I'm now using a new batch with a reference solution which always helps. For phosphates I'm using the high sensitivity Deltec kit.

I'm still fully wet skimming, so removing one skimmer cup full of waste a day and topping up with salt mix so running quite good parameters at the moment. I had thought about increasing the oxygination in the system via increased flow.

I did came across the Korallen-Zucht products, but I don't want to end up throwing everything and anything into the system and as you mentioned stick to one method. So I guess for me it would be a matter of chossing the one which would be most effective given my variables and current climate.

shred5
04/23/2008, 07:51 AM
Well you should have started with frags. colonies have a less chance of survival. i would say if your dkh was that high it probably did not help things. You should have not even put the corals in till that was under control. Also if you are recylcing the tank dosing vodka is not needed. There is already enough carbon.

Dave

M1ST
04/23/2008, 08:17 AM
Hi Dave,

As mentioned I was using a faulty batch test kit for DKH which was giving me readings of much lower. Although Nitrates buffer alkalinity fluctuations to a certain extent, but I still put sps loss down to high alkalinity.

The dkh has now been running stable since February though around 8-8.5.

Kolognekoral
04/23/2008, 08:21 AM
If the nitrates are not budging, then you need to add a zeolith filter medium, which will remove the ammonia, the first step of the nitrate cycle. Please be careful in dropping the ammonia level. It should be done gradually and zeoliths are extremely efficient at its removal. Typically, I recommend running a zeolith filter 3 hours on - three hours off for the first few weeks to gently remove the wastes. Another shock is certainly to be avoided.

The idea with zeolith is to capture tha ammonia on a porous medium that will then be colonized by the nitrifying bacteria. Without this concentration of ammonia available, the bacteria strains will take much longer to establish themselves.

I agree, you should stay with what you have for the moment. Read-up on other systems and decide when you next need to replenish supplies.