Humuhumu question

[StayPuft]

Hello all, this is my first post and hope to maybe get some help with my new Trigger. I just purchased a 4-5" HumuHumu Trigger. Currently in this tank I have a small 3" Niger Trigger, a 4-5" Foxface, a pair of Gold Stripe Maroon Clowns, a Yellow Wrasse (4") and a Lawnmower Blenny (pretty large). I'm in the process of setting up my 150gal tank, until then these fish are housed in a 75gal, with large Euro-Reef skimmer, fuge and sump. Readings are perfect, no Nitrates, 420-440 Calcium, no ammonia or nitrites, 9-10 dkh, 8.3 pH. The tank is very stable. Once the large tank is setup, the Yellow Wrasse, Blenny and Clowns will be put in a reef tank, the rest will go in the 150gal FOWLR.

Now here's my concern. The HumuHumu is causing quite a bit of stir in the tank, in his first day! First of all he doesn't seem to like the Niger Trigger and chases it away. Doesn't seem to bother with the other fish at all, just the Niger. He's also picking up sand and spitting it out, making a cave for itself in the back of a rock, creating a big mess in the tank. So I guess I have 2 questions... First, is his attitude towards my Niger temporary? The Niger was a little anti-social at first too, but then settled in very nicely. Is the Humuhumu the same? Second, once it digs its cave, will it stop with the sand spitting or is this an ongoing Humu characteristic?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[waif]

If i am not mistaken, spitting is a characteristic of al triggers.

[pinkie]

Triggers tend to rearrange rockwork and other parts of the tank based on how they want it to look. It is a trait that will more than likely last for as long as you have him. The Humuhumu is also a very aggressive trigger. I had one that killed two fish in my tank, before I found a new home for him. I would expect his attitude towards the Niger to get worse, and he may start going after the other fish as well.

[jsl6v8]

Going to have to agree with pinkie, Triggers are one of those fish that you don't get to mix much with unless you have a very large tank, and humuhumus are one of the more aggressive triggers especially as they get older. But on the plus side he will love you, they have a great personality, often referred to as being dog like. For instance I am building a 375 and have a pair of blue throats and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting in another trigger even at that size.

[kirkaz]

I had a Huma and Niger together for several years, they got along just fine in a 130 gallon set up. I think once you get them in the 150 they should do well. I think my Huma was the exception to the rule, but he was far less aggressive than the Niger, despite being first in as well. Humas will dig in the sand as they are just looking for food, get used to that, thats why I have crushed coral mixed with sand.

Your 75 might just be a little small for everyone, so aggression will be increased, I think you will be great in the 150, both are great fish.

[StayPuft]

Thanks. I will keep an eye on him and see if he bothers the other fish. So far the only agression is towards the Niger and it's not really bad. Just once in a while he chases him away. Hopefully he can stay civilized for a month or so until I have the 150 all set up.

Do you think a 150gal (6' long) is big enough for a Humuhumu, a Niger Trigger, a Foxface, Emperor Angel and a few Tangs?

[kirkaz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12417091#post12417091 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by StayPuft
Thanks. I will keep an eye on him and see if he bothers the other fish. So far the only agression is towards the Niger and it's not really bad. Just once in a while he chases him away. Hopefully he can stay civilized for a month or so until I have the 150 all set up.

Do you think a 150gal (6' long) is big enough for a Humuhumu, a Niger Trigger, a Foxface, Emperor Angel and a few Tangs?

IMO, yes but don't get big aggressive tangs, something like a Yellow and a Blue (or similar) would work, and make sure the Emperor goes in after the tank has been running for 6 months or so.

[spamin76]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12416620#post12416620 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by StayPuft

Now here's my concern. The HumuHumu is causing quite a bit of stir in the tank, in his first day! First of all he doesn't seem to like the Niger Trigger and chases it away. Doesn't seem to bother with the other fish at all, just the Niger. He's also picking up sand and spitting it out, making a cave for itself in the back of a rock, creating a big mess in the tank. So I guess I have 2 questions... First, is his attitude towards my Niger temporary? The Niger was a little anti-social at first too, but then settled in very nicely. Is the Humuhumu the same? Second, once it digs its cave, will it stop with the sand spitting or is this an ongoing Humu characteristic?

Thanks in advance for any help.

The sand spitting is actually an integral part of their natural behavior. These fish are benthic forragers which means that they constantly sift through sand looking for food.

The sand sifting, personally, is one of my favorites aspects of these fish, but it can be a nuisance if you don't appreciate it. Unfortunately there isn't a way to stop it, the fish is just doing what comes naturally, and since they are omnivorous forragers, he is just looking for food.

I would strongly disagree with statements that humus are one of the more aggressive triggers, they are actually one of the less aggressive triggers, but triggers in general tend to be pretty aggressive compared to most aquarium fish so they are well into the aggressive end of the spectrum, but understand that they are unpredictable and can become very aggressive without any notice. As for the tank size, it is hard to comment, in the wild these fish will defend territories in excess of 30 square feet, which they definitely are not going to get in any aquarium. As they age they tend to become less tolerant of other fish. You might be able to keep one with others in a large tank for a number of years, but in general there often comes a time when they just become too aggressive. Also keep in mind that they can get to close to 12" when they are completely full grown with 8" being a realistic captive size, so consider the space demands. If yours is anything like the ones I have owned over the years, they are compulsively active, and maybe even hyper.

In general, the only fish that are good candidates to keep with triggers long term are fish that are too large for the trigger to really hurt, or fish that are at least as aggressive. In general triggers are more likely to be aggressive toward other triggers than other fish though since triggers tend to be very territorial in terms of mating, and other triggers may be seen as competition. I kept a humuhumu with a niger for about 4 years until the niger died of an accidental rock slide. In this case the humu and the niger are not very closely related - you can probably tell from their body shape.

I would really be careful with the trigger and the foxface though. Many triggers naturally prey on urchins, and so they have an instinctual spine snapping behavior, where they will attack and despine other fish. It doesn't happen that often, but I know of cases where humus have attacked lionfish and fox faces and deliberately snapped some of their spines, generally to the malcontent of the other fish.

I have kept triggers for a long time, and my best advice for you is just try to understand their behavior, don't expect to change it, and know the risks up front. To a certain degree it might be wise to think of most trigger species as loaded guns. They are very capable of destruction and highly unpredictable. With that said, they are amazing and wonderful fish, but you have to respect them and understand what they are and what they aren't. A large number of triggers end up going back to the store or in a tank by themselves - it might take many years, but it is an unfortunate fact. On the other hand, they are colorful, very active, and lovably peculiar, so they are great pets if you can tolerate their less desirable qualities.

[reefergeorge]

Well put spam. You nailed my humma right on.

[spamin76]

I had one for about 5 years(Rhinecanthus aculeatus - died in an overflow problem), had another for 3(Rhinecanthus rectangulus died in an extended power outage while I was on vacation :( ). I love those guys. Really sad that I don't have one now. I had to break down my real tank when I started back to school.

It's almost like owning a dog(except they can't leave the tank).

Triggers are the main reason I got into the hobby, and the reason why I refuse to leave it :lol:

I actually wrote a 20 page term paper about behavior, adaptations, and feeding habbits for a graduate reef biology class I took a few years back. One might say I am a little obsessed with triggerfish... :rollface:

[StayPuft]

Excellent information, thanks!

Today the humu has been more relaxed. It's still spitting sand but not as bad and is not creating a cloudy mess in the tank anymore. I've also been observing it with the other fish. The Niger has learned to stay away and is content with swimming at the other end of the tank. When they do cross paths, they seem ok, although the Niger never gets too close.

It's very funny... I have a pair of Maroon Clowns, with the male being much smaller. Well, this small clown got really upset when the Humu swam by its "home" and really went after it. Scared the crap out of the humu and it ran and hid in its cave for a good ten minutes.

The Foxface could be a problem because it doesn't seem afraid of the Humu, both being pretty much the same size. I put in algae sheets every day and both Foxface and Humu were agressively going after the same piece. Also noticed the Foxface has a small bite mark on his side, probably from the Humu. Nothing too bad though, barely noticable.

Again thanks for the info. The Niger and Foxface are my two favorite fish. I've had the Foxface since it was really tiny and it's gotten to know me so well that I hand feed it sometimes. Hopefully the Humu will learn to live with these two.

[spamin76]

Many triggers can be really aggressive feeders. He may have bit the fox face unintentionally trying to get to the algae. When you put food in the tank, the fish can kind of become a battering ram if anything is between it and something it can eat.

Clowns actually can become very agressive when they have a "home" staked out. I used to clean aquariums professionally, and I got attacked by clownfish all the time while cleaning because my hand or my scraper inevitably got too close to their home and they decided to "let me have it".

Just a note, pay attention to the humu when you work in the tank - in the wild they literally eat almost anything(including sometimes small rocks)... you are just one big delicious buffet when you stick your hand in. They don't know that you are not food. I have never been hurt by one, but I have been bitten more than once, 9 times out of 10 it was my fault.

Also, mix up their diet. They will eat almost anything, and in the wild they do eat anything they can get their mouths on. It's good to see that he is eating the algae sheets, because a lot of people don't realize it, but in the wild they can eat a lot of plant matter - 20-30% of their diet in some cases. But when you think about it, it makes sense that they have a diverse diet since they are foragers - they spend so much time swimming around looking for food, and eating anything with nutritional value that they can find - stars, shrimp, urchins, sponges, even coral bits. Not all triggers are as big of omnivores, (nigers usually are not as diverse in their eating habits) but most of the time a healthy trigger will eat just about any kind of reasonable marine food offered.

[StayPuft]

I feed all the fish in this tank my home made food which includes bits of raw shrimp, squid, white fish, scallops, clams and nori sheets. I put all this in a food processor, chop it up and freeze it in sheets, in ziplock bags. They all love it!

Then I also give them treats a few times a week of leftover food (krill, shrimp or sliverside) from the lionfish tank.

[spamin76]

Ah that sounds good - lots of diversity is never a bad thing.

[StayPuft]

Another quick question for the experts. What are the chances of my cleaner shrimp surviving with the Humu? I've had the cleaner for a long time and is now huge, in fact it's bigger than the Humu. So far no problems and the Niger never bothered it, but what are its chances long term?

[kirkaz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12423258#post12423258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by StayPuft
Another quick question for the experts. What are the chances of my cleaner shrimp surviving with the Humu? I've had the cleaner for a long time and is now huge, in fact it's bigger than the Humu. So far no problems and the Niger never bothered it, but what are its chances long term?

I would be shocked if he survives long term with the Huma, but there are exceptions to every rule.

[spamin76]

Many fish seem to be able to recognize cleaners, and decide not to eat them as they realize that the cleaner is more beneficial alive than in their stomach.

If you decide to try it out, I would make sure the cleaner is one that occurs in the natural habitat of the trigger - like make sure the cleaner can be found around Hawaii, Fiji, The Marshall Islands. I think this increases the chance of the fish "recognizing" that the cleaner is friend and not food.

I will agree with Kirkaz... I would be shocked if it makes it long term, but if you don't mind losing the shrimp, then it might be worth the risk. It would definitely be beneficial for all the fish, but the shrimp is fully at the mercy of a hungry humu.

I know of cases where people have put humus and clown triggers in large reef tanks with inverts and have not had any problems(in a large tank like that there are plenty of copepods, small starts, etc for the triggers to eat that they leave some of the inverts alone).

I kept my humu with an urchin that was supposedly part of his natural diet and that lasted for several months. In the end the urchin died but it had nothing to do with the humu(but it did get eaten at that point).

[StayPuft]

Well, I've had the cleaner shrimp for about 6 months, not sure what region it's from. Now I added the humu and so far so good. It even tried to clean the humu a few times.

[spamin76]

If he didn't go for it initially that is good, but Just don't hold your breath. Nothing bad may ever happen, but on the other hand it could go so fast that the shrimp is alive and well one minute, and humu food the second.

I hope it works out for you. It's very hard to say though. If the fish is letting himself be cleaned though, then that indicates that he probably recognizes it as a cleaner.

[reefergeorge]

I have had a cleaner shrimp in with my humma, and porcupine puffer for almost a year. The first thing the trigger did when I added him was nip the shrimp, but hasn't bothered him since. I except the fact that he may be food one day, but it seems natural to me.
Also my cleaner is huge. 2"+ body with 3" antennas.

[StayPuft]

Gotta say, the Humu is really funny. He's still working on his cave at the back of the tank. Takes a mouthfull of sand, then swims to the top of the tank over the rocks and spits it out towards the front. :lol: The rocks towards the front are covered in sand! He's also gotten pretty docile after the first day. He doesn't bother any of the fish, not even the Niger anymore.

[spamin76]

He's just plotting their demise and is waiting for the least expected time to strike...
:blown:

;) j/k