Amino Acids

[ganjero]

Which are the best? I was looking at some on marinedepot and the koralin and elos are about the same price but the elos bottle is tiny.

[TomRep]

I think the Elos is concentrated, so you only need a couple drops per day. Not sure though. I can tell you Friday when I get my bottle.
tom

[ooja3k]

Zeo AA's are highly concentrated too. I only need 1 drop per day for my tank.

As far as best, I don't know. I have heard good things about zeo and elos, but not so good things about the seachem version...

[kuramura]

Just started dosing Seachem Fuel few weeks ago, 3 X a day 1ml each dose. This is first AA I tried and I made few other upgrades to my tank - 36 gal. but my SPS are growing fast and PE is enormous so I would highly recommend this or something similar.

[nismo driver]

i just started trying brightwell aquatics coral amino. its only been three days though so hard to say if its had an impact yet..

[vetdog]

highly recommend Seachem AA's

[Dejavu]

Zeovit AA are 1 drop per 25 gal of water. I have been using them for a little over a week. Not much has chaged as far a growth and color but i have noticed better polyp extention. Time will tell have well they work.

[ezcompany]

is there really conclusive evidence of the benefits from dosing AA? can anybody provide more information?

[MCsaxmaster]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12444532#post12444532 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
is there really conclusive evidence of the benefits from dosing AA? can anybody provide more information?

The evidence available (several studies here and there over the years) have all shown that corals can take up dissolved free amino acids from the water, even at low concentrations, but that they constitute a very small portion of the corals N or C needs, even at high concentrations. Corals can certainly derive some benefit from them, but far, far less benefit than they do from catching and eating zooplankton, for example.

Chris

[Travis]

I've dosed several different brands of AA's. The only one that ever made any noticable difference was the Zeo AAHC. And that difference was noticed in only about 10% of the corals. However, I can say that the difference in the coloration on those corals was phenomenal. But just not enough for me to justify the cost of it for a large system. If I had a smaller system (100 gallons or less) I would continually dose the Zeo AAHC.

[Travis]

6 month difference between pics:

AAHC:
http://notlehs.com/travis/6-6-06/2/147_4750.JPG

no AAHC:
http://notlehs.com/travis/Tank%20Pics%2012-22-06/top%20downs/Miyagi%20tort.jpg

AAHC:
http://notlehs.com/travis/6-6-06/146_4697.JPG

no AAHC:
http://notlehs.com/travis/Tank%20Pics%2012-22-06/top%20downs/purple%20monster.jpg

AAHC:
http://notlehs.com/travis/6-6-06/147_4754.JPG

no AAHC:
http://notlehs.com/travis/Tank%20Pics%2012-22-06/top%20downs/LE%20soli.jpg

[ReefRockerLive]

Travis, nice acros! IMO, the pictures of the acros w/out AAHC look more colorful.

[melanotaenia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12445518#post12445518 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ReefRockerLive
Travis, nice acros! IMO, the pictures of the acros w/out AAHC look more colorful.
I totally disagree the colors are a lot more vibrant under the AA

I use Zeo, and have never been happier with PE and the colors

[ooja3k]

I also totally disagree.

The colors have depth and a richness when the AAHC was dosed.. They look more washed out without the zeo aa's for sure.

[Eklikewhoa]

I'm using Seachem's Reef plus and it seems to be working good.

[sailfintang]

There is another open thread regarding AA's dosing, check it out;

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1354113

Lots of good info there.

[eskymick]

Which particular aminos do corals most benefit from? The same essentials and unessentials that humans use ?

[stevedola]

I use Elos AA that I dose 9 drops per day in my 75g. Have been for the last month. Corals have better PE for sure but I havent snapped pics yet to compare. I figured at the 6 wk mark I would. Definitely think there is improvement but I have no proof just like everyone else.

[glxtrix]

I dose the seachem reef plus....I like it, corals seem to as well.

[irishrose302]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12442783#post12442783 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ooja3k
Zeo AA's are highly concentrated too. I only need 1 drop per day for my tank.

As far as best, I don't know. I have heard good things about zeo and elos, but not so good things about the seachem version...

I have been trying to find out where to order the zeo aa's, where do you get yours?

thanks

[Dejavu]

Cindy,

You can get them from Premium Aquatics or todd at Cherry Corals
has zeo now.

[ooja3k]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12455724#post12455724 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by irishrose302
I have been trying to find out where to order the zeo aa's, where do you get yours?

thanks

I ordered mine from premium aquatics.

[AD87]

Now, what if someone uses ozone in their system. Would that cause any problems with dosing AA.

[TomRep]

Just recieved my Elos Omega today. Where does everyone store the bottle? When I used to Waner Marine Ultimate Amino's, it said to store them in the fridge. The Elos just says "Keep in cool, dark place". I'm assuming the fridge would be okay for these as well, or is that too cold?
tom

[ooja3k]

I don't know. The zeo doesn't say anything, so i just have them in my fish closet.

Im sure they are fine in just a cool place. Putting them in the fridge might make them last longer, but the zeo has a shelf life of 2 years, so im not to worried about shelf life.

[ezcompany]

how often do you guys dose AA and do you follow the recommended dosage instructions? specifically for the warner marine AA

[TomRep]

The warner marine, I was dosing 2 capfuls per day in my 120, med-heavily stocked. I think that is higher then what they recommend, but that seemed to be what my corals liked. Starting Elos tonight, not sure what to dose yet.
tom

[irishrose302]

Hi,

thanks, I will check them out. BTW....my tank has taken a suddin turn to sps.





<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12455763#post12455763 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dejavu
Cindy,

You can get them from Premium Aquatics or todd at Cherry Corals
has zeo now. :D :D

[MCsaxmaster]

Out of curiosity, what is the cost of some of these bottles of amino acids?

[Dejavu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12457380#post12457380 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ezcompany
how often do you guys dose AA and do you follow the recommended dosage instructions? specifically for the warner marine AA

I have been dosing the recommended dosage as instructioned. I might adjust it if needed.

QUOTE]Out of curiosity, what is the cost of some of these bottles of amino acids?[/QUOTE]

Zeo AA is ~ $30 for 50ml . The Zeo AA is 1 drop per 25 gal of water. 1 drop is ~.065ml , so 16 drop is ~1 ml. So it goes along way.

[Gilby]

I have been using Kent marine coral accel amino acid supplement for about 2 weeks and I have seen increased growth, polyp extension and I have noticed that my coral has been coloring up a bit more.

[adtravels]

do you have to swiych off your skimmers when dosing AA specifically zeo aahc, I know that brightwell recommend witching the skimmer off.

[ganjero]

any updates from anyone? I started today with elos aa, do you guys refrigerate them?

[ooja3k]

I don't switch off my skimmer when dosing my zeo aahc.

[ezcompany]

warner marine aminos states to refrigerate, i refridgerate all food items too, even flake food.

[sivert55]

tagging along. Just bought Elos AA. Will post results in a few months.

[mmotown]

Guys I have been using Zevoit AA. A few days after using it I had some lime green algae to break out on some rocks. After I stopped using it, it went away. Just to be sure it was the AA's when I used it again it came back. Anyone experience this?

[Atomikk]

I have the Korallin Amino Acids. I supplement once a week, as the food that you feed your fish should provide enough protein for the corals. Dosing AA's is really giving your corals the essential aminos, just in case they don't get it through other means.

Therefore, you shouldn't get amazing results, unless you tank was in poor condition to start with.

[Dejavu]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12480346#post12480346 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmotown
Guys I have been using Zevoit AA. A few days after using it I had some lime green algae to break out on some rocks. After I stopped using it, it went away. Just to be sure it was the AA's when I used it again it came back. Anyone experience this?


I havn't had any algae with zeo AA.

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12478649#post12478649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by adtravels
do you have to swiych off your skimmers when dosing AA specifically zeo aahc, I know that brightwell recommend witching the skimmer off.

I would strongly recommend turning the skimmer off for 1-2 hours when dosing. Skimmers will pull out AA's very quickly and effectively. I dose AA's when I feed the fish and I turn off my return pump for an hour when doing so, that way the AA's stay concentrated where I want them and don't get diffused in the water in the sump and refugium and also don't get pulled out right away by the skimmer.

[Travis]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12480346#post12480346 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mmotown
Guys I have been using Zevoit AA. A few days after using it I had some lime green algae to break out on some rocks. After I stopped using it, it went away. Just to be sure it was the AA's when I used it again it came back. Anyone experience this?

Dosing too much AA will lead to brown algae, not green. Green algae is more likely a sign of high nutrients.

[AD87]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12456051#post12456051 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by speeddemonlsr
Now, what if someone uses ozone in their system. Would that cause any problems with dosing AA.

bump

[mmotown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12481178#post12481178 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
Dosing too much AA will lead to brown algae, not green. Green algae is more likely a sign of high nutrients.

You're right Travis. I was also dosing pappone prior to the start of the Z-AA's. hmmmm

[volcom69]

Zeo hasnt recomended turning the skimmer off anyone using zeo turn there skimmer off i dose alot with zeo products and dont turn the skimmer off.

[adtravels]

If you look at travis's tank you will probably follow any reccomendations he offers, his before after pics are pretty stunning.

[Reefflections]

Travis
I'm a Zeo user of AA also.But I've been trying to find this answer to this as for it's good or bad.I ventured into a full blown Zeo system.But not a use nowr.But have some of these old bottles from my pass sitting around And one is the AA from Zeo.When there products hit the scene way back when,people weren't sure how long certain ZEO would stay fresh.I'm trying to find out if AA has unlimited self life?Some times we try things and they don't work out We hate to throw things out.Because maybe someday you could used certain things from the past.And of coarse this is one bottle trying to find at least something about it.Or anyone that's tuned into this thread,and answer to this one way or another.I hate to use something especially any additives,if it's old.
Thanks all for anyones input hereThe reason now I want to add a few drops here and there.It's a low nutrient system again.But not a full blown Zeo set up.

[Travis]

Reefflections, I'm really not sure on the shelf life. Some companies say to keep their product refrigerated so that might say something about shelf life. If I were in your shoes, I would use that bottle. Just start slow and see what happens.

[Reefflections]

Travis,
Yes I remember that also.I think it was the Bac food.It been many years ago,about putting it in the fridge,And even then I think that said 6 months.Now their CV is another needs to be in the fridge.They just added so many new products since I palyed the game.I only have SP,AA,and their Iron.But they are using many more these days.Have you tried the SP yet?I did hear good things from it.It seems to be for all type of corals,even clams:D
But thanks for your input my friend....

[Travis]

All I ever tried from them was CV and AA. Too expensive a system for my blood.:) Also, too much daily dosing. I like to be able to not have to worry about doing anything but feeding food to my tank for weeks at a time. I prefer the "auto-pilot" method.:D

[mmotown]

just to make myself clear when I said l had a outbreak of some sort of lime green algae, it was more of a film with bubbles on it but not an algae like green hair algae.

[mmotown]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12481171#post12481171 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
I would strongly recommend turning the skimmer off for 1-2 hours when dosing. Skimmers will pull out AA's very quickly and effectively. I dose AA's when I feed the fish and I turn off my return pump for an hour when doing so, that way the AA's stay concentrated where I want them and don't get diffused in the water in the sump and refugium and also don't get pulled out right away by the skimmer.

Travis you say you turn off your return pumps when dosing. What if you dose to accomodate the sump volume? You would still turn it off? I do turn off the TUNZE since they produce the most flow and my skimmer and carbon rx. Since I have been leaving my return pumps on, would my return lines going into my filter sock affect anything?

[Greg Hiller]

Regarding the stability of amino acid solutions. If these supplements are really just amino acids, then they should be quite stable. If they have some other goop in them, then I cannot say.

With the exception of glutamine (which I doubt they would put in anyhow) most amino acids should be stable in solution for many, many months at room temp. Some probably for years, particularly if nothing grows in them.

Regarding the removal via skimming. While it's true that some amino acids have hydrophobic side chains, the molecules themselves as a whole are quite soluble in water and I can see no reason why a skimmer would remove them.

[CleveYank]

I've seen some fantastic tanks that do not dose a thing. Even phyto.
I don't completely agree with the dosing everything in the world that might help.
And I also do not completely agree with dosing nothing at all.
But I just wonder whether this is all just getting back to the snake oil side of things.
But then again I have also seen the photos of tanks that are dosing the latest tonic and if the photos are valid then the results are amazing.
I just wonder about all of the tinkering.

And has there been a real test?
Has anyone taken two systems with equal volume, equal density and pounds of liverock and equal bioload and equal water quality with duplicate skimming or sandbeds...and the exact number and size and wieght of coral and type...lighting everything and had an amino dose tank and a non-amino dosed tank? Experiment vs control. Or is it just more winging it and approximations and devout testamonials?

[reefer334]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12505798#post12505798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CleveYank
I've seen some fantastic tanks that do not dose a thing. Even phyto.
I don't completely agree with the dosing everything in the world that might help.
And I also do not completely agree with dosing nothing at all.
But I just wonder whether this is all just getting back to the snake oil side of things.
But then again I have also seen the photos of tanks that are dosing the latest tonic and if the photos are valid then the results are amazing.
I just wonder about all of the tinkering.

And has there been a real test?
Has anyone taken two systems with equal volume, equal density and pounds of liverock and equal bioload and equal water quality with duplicate skimming or sandbeds...and the exact number and size and wieght of coral and type...lighting everything and had an amino dose tank and a non-amino dosed tank? Experiment vs control. Or is it just more winging it and approximations and devout testamonials?



Nice points!!


Here are my thoughts ,but beware as these are just my oppinions as I am an SPS rookie.

I think that some tanks are healthy enough allready that you would not see any benefit from adding them.

I also think that some tanks are to sterile , for example I just started a 120 sps tank 4 months ago and I have used carbon and GFO the whole time.

My corral never seemed happy, they grew but no good polyp extn on all acros and montis.


3 days in to using AA's I see a noticeable difference.


I think as my tank ages and matures over time it will be healthy enough to stop using them.

This is just my opinion and a rookie one at that.:confused:



Chris

[glassbox-design]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12505798#post12505798 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CleveYank

And has there been a real test?
Has anyone taken two systems with equal volume, equal density and pounds of liverock and equal bioload and equal water quality with duplicate skimming or sandbeds...and the exact number and size and wieght of coral and type...lighting everything and had an amino dose tank and a non-amino dosed tank? Experiment vs control. Or is it just more winging it and approximations and devout testamonials?

Cleve,

While I do agree that something like this should be done... I doubt if it will ever be. Scientific experiments have proven that coral's can directly uptake amino acids (that then can effect growth) and also that bacteria also utilize amino acids. The biggest question is what is actually occurring in our systems, are the bac's using them or the corals directly?

AA's are for those that are ULN that verge on nitrogen limitation. Unfortunately many will buy them in hopes of a coloration cure only to be disappointed :(