Moorish Idol - Urgent Help - Keeping two

[r0cksteady]

Hi All,

I have had a Moorish Idol for the last 6 months or so all going well. I decided I would like to pair it up with another.

I just added the two together and now my established Moorish Idol is chasing the other one around and head butting it.

I tried catching the new addition and returning him to the LFS but they are now closed and I could not actually catch him.

Deciding not to stress the guy futher I have turned the lights of which has greatly reduced the aggresion but I can still see him getting chased off when they come within sight of eachother.

Currently they are at both ends in complete darkness.

I need some tips and advice as to whether theres a chance of them pairing, if theres anything I can do to reduce the aggressiveness or should I just return him if I can catch him?

Advice?

I really would hate to return him as he is also eating flake food and pellets like my current Moorish Idol. Thanks

[Chibils]

Rearranging the rocks will confuse them into thinking they're in a new place (if their territory is changed). You could try a fish trap if that doesn't work.

[r0cksteady]

If I use a fish trap how long should I restrict the original moorish idol for before letting him back in to see if he fights?

How significant does the live rock have to change to reduce aggresion?

[bdif]

Don't mean to an a-hole, but you should keep this fish in "private". Posting that you are keeping 2 of these fish may lead others to believe they should try one it too. I understand you wanting advice, but everytime I see a post re this fish, it makes me cringe. It is widely known that NO ONE can keep these fish long term, regardless of what it's eating now.

[natan]

everytime I see a post re this fish, it makes me cringe.

Sorry 4 U. But, there is a HUGE distance from that to the "you should keep this fish in "private" thing. This place is for openly discussing ideas, experiances and methods for keeping animals with the goal of improving their husbandry techniques. Every time i see someone flamed 4 doing just that makes me cringe. If people did that, this whole hobby won't have existed (all marines were difficult to impossible to keep ~30 years ago), same goes for any exotic animal or plant, and even some domestics. You can easily avoide trouble by ignoaring the post on species you don't like kept, 4 whatever reason, and save us all trouble of dealing with flaming.
Thank U.
What we r trying to do here is 2 make things impossible 2day possible 2morow and easy/common the next day. With idols, like many other exotics, the correct dyet is likely to hold the key, experimenting on some specimens is the only way 2 solve the problem, and sharing info on thaws experiments is the way to save some animals by preventing people from repeating someone's elses mistakes.

Now 2 the fish. The more u re-arrange the rocks, the more likely u r to brake that behavior. But, it may wanish on its own too. You just never know, they may wake up next morning and give each other no trouble, or it may get worse. Just see what happens and act accordingly. It should be no problem to remove the fish with a read torch at night if U decide to.

[yoboyjdizz]

I would remove the new one. To get a pair you need a male and female and not sure on how you can tell them apart. I tried to keep two but after few months one begin harassing the other and so i got rid of it. For the other idols health i would return it.

Bdif, people should research fish first people buying one and if they did they would realize the difficulty that comes with keeping and idol and therefore make the choice on if they should keep one or not. Without sharing information like this about a fish, it only increases the chances of people never ever keeping this beautiful fish alive in captivity long term.

[melanotaenia]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12448273#post12448273 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bdif
Don't mean to an a-hole, but you should keep this fish in "private". Posting that you are keeping 2 of these fish may lead others to believe they should try one it too. I understand you wanting advice, but everytime I see a post re this fish, it makes me cringe. It is widely known that NO ONE can keep these fish long term, regardless of what it's eating now.

there are several documented owners on here who have kept these fish for years successfully if kept in a stable environment, so you should probably do a search on here as there is a long established thread on these fish with several success stories. Not to say they are easy to keep (as they certainly are not) but it can be done if the right person is caring for it

[spike78]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12449075#post12449075 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by natan
everytime I see a post re this fish, it makes me cringe.

Sorry 4 U. But, there is a HUGE distance from that to the "you should keep this fish in "private" thing. This place is for openly discussing ideas, experiances and methods for keeping animals with the goal of improving their husbandry techniques. Every time i see someone flamed 4 doing just that makes me cringe. If people did that, this whole hobby won't have existed (all marines were difficult to impossible to keep ~30 years ago), same goes for any exotic animal or plant, and even some domestics. You can easily avoide trouble by ignoaring the post on species you don't like kept, 4 whatever reason, and save us all trouble of dealing with flaming.
Thank U.
What we r trying to do here is 2 make things impossible 2day possible 2morow and easy/common the next day. With idols, like many other exotics, the correct dyet is likely to hold the key, experimenting on some specimens is the only way 2 solve the problem, and sharing info on thaws experiments is the way to save some animals by preventing people from repeating someone's elses mistakes.

Now 2 the fish. The more u re-arrange the rocks, the more likely u r to brake that behavior. But, it may wanish on its own too. You just never know, they may wake up next morning and give each other no trouble, or it may get worse. Just see what happens and act accordingly. It should be no problem to remove the fish with a read torch at night if U decide to.

Holy cow man! I could not understand a single sentence. I can't tell what's worse; the grammar, the spelling, or the fact that you actually went back and edited the post and we still end up with this! If you want people to take your opinions seriously, you have to at least make the attempt to write comprehensibly and have some consideration for your audience.

[r0cksteady]

Thanks Guys, woke up this morning and he was still getting chased, will return to LFS today rather than risk the guys health.

Pretty happy with how my original Moorish Idol is going and I had read that they may do even better in schools Anyway thanks for the advice.

[ACBlinky]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12451011#post12451011 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spike78
Holy cow man! I could not understand a single sentence. I can't tell what's worse; the grammar, the spelling, or the fact that you actually went back and edited the post and we still end up with this! If you want people to take your opinions seriously, you have to at least make the attempt to write comprehensibly and have some consideration for your audience. :thumbsup: I couldn't have said it better myself.

Moorish idols are very difficult fish, but there are some people here that have beaten the odds. PaulB is one member that springs to mind -- he dives and collects certain sponges for his idols and I believe this is a major factor in his success with these fish. If memory serves, he also has a VERY well established reef (30 years old) and doesn't disturb things very often.

I'm glad you're removing the second fish, sounds like your current idol wasn't going to accept it. I'm not sure if anyone here has a pair, but you might try contacting PaulB to see if he's tried pairing his in the past (I believe he's had a few of these fish over the years) and if he or anyone else here knows how to sex them.

[Tripin0ut]

everytime I see a post re this fish, it makes me cringe.

Sorry 4 U. But, there is a HUGE distance from that to the "you should keep this fish in "private" thing. This place is for openly discussing ideas, experiances and methods for keeping animals with the goal of improving their husbandry techniques. Every time i see someone flamed 4 doing just that makes me cringe. If people did that, this whole hobby won't have existed (all marines were difficult to impossible to keep ~30 years ago), same goes for any exotic animal or plant, and even some domestics. You can easily avoide trouble by ignoaring the post on species you don't like kept, 4 whatever reason, and save us all trouble of dealing with flaming.
Thank U.
What we r trying to do here is 2 make things impossible 2day possible 2morow and easy/common the next day. With idols, like many other exotics, the correct dyet is likely to hold the key, experimenting on some specimens is the only way 2 solve the problem, and sharing info on thaws experiments is the way to save some animals by preventing people from repeating someone's elses mistakes.

Now 2 the fish. The more u re-arrange the rocks, the more likely u r to brake that behavior. But, it may wanish on its own too. You just never know, they may wake up next morning and give each other no trouble, or it may get worse. Just see what happens and act accordingly. It should be no problem to remove the fish with a read torch at night if U decide to.

[Tripin0ut]

I have had a moorish idol for years. At first, it was tricky finding something it would eat. Finally as a last resort I soaked frozen bloodworms in a cup of tank water with garlic and the feeding frenzy started. Moorish idols are not that hard to keep in my experience, trial and error accompanied with a good work ethic and a lot of patience and love, and anything is possible.

[Curious George]

4 years

[SDguy]

Does anyone know if moorish idols truly pair, long term, in the wild?

[Paul B]

I need some tips and advice as to whether theres a chance of them pairing,

You have two males, bring one back.

Moorish idols are very difficult fish, but there are some people here that have beaten the odds. PaulB is one member that springs to mind -

I have had many of them and the last one for five years, (I killed it in an accident whicl I was out of town) that is no where near a success for a fish that should most likely live 20 years.

I have had a moorish idol for years.

4 years is longer than 98% of them live but still stinks and is far from success. Success means the fish dies of old age. Almost all of them eat flakes or anything else, they will eat cardboard if it is soaked in clam juice and food is not their main problem. As far as I know no one in a private home has kept one for anywhere near aproaching 10 years, even hermit crabs live longer then that as do almost all fisj excpet the smaller gobies or pipefish.
I went to Tahiti to dive with them and they are not rare at all and you see them on every dive. They seem to live in mated pairs and it also seems like the male finds the food which I have only seen to be a lime green sponge although I am sure they eat other things. I have found a place in New York where a sponge grows that I freeze and they love, but I have no idea if it will keep them alive any longer. Mine also loved frozen bananas, Go figure. :beer:

[Mrscribbled]

Does anyone know if moorish idols truly pair, long term, in the wild?

Yes they pair for life it seems
Wholesalers also do get pairs directly from the ocean but mostly just single specimens over all.



Know matter what this fish is fed it seems IME and others idols usually die around the 8 month mark. Another thing I'd like to know is if the lfs is closed why not put the new idol back in QT????? Hmm no Qt? When will people learn.

[SDguy]

Yes they pair for life it seems

What does "it seems" mean? Is it documented? Fishbase says they can be found in singles, pairs, or occasional groups. Butterflies, for example, pair for life. I don't see that as the same thing...

[Mrscribbled]

What does "it seems" mean? Is it documented? Fishbase says they can be found in singles, pairs, or occasional groups. Butterflies, for example, pair for life. I don't see that as the same thing...

Any video from the ocean I've seen pretty much always had a pair of idols in the back ground. Tinkers are found single also but pair for life. I'm sure its like any other animal that if a mate has not been found or something happens to the other half then they will be found single or in batchelor groups. Thats the point I meant to make, being little is actually known about this fish even though they are widely spread. One thing is a fact, the can and often will eat anything thrown to them but eventually parrish. Therefore their beauty is best left in the ocean.

[SDguy]

I respectfully disagree on both counts. A few videos doesn't mean much (due to number of videos and time frame of observation), and I also don't think they are better left in the ocean. Rather, they are better left to experienced fish keepers.

FWIW the numerous times I saw MI's in Hawaii they were always alone as adults. Juvi's always seemed to be in groups (4+).

[Paul B]

What does "it seems" mean? Is it documented?

I don't know what it means to other people but to me it means that I personally have spent time with them in the sea, not months but I have spent about 6 hours with them underwater. That is not long enough by any means to make a definate decision as to if they live in pairs all the time or only on the Fourth of July but the majority of Idols I saw were in pairs. Not all of them as I did see some singly.
I did however follow a pair for an hour and the male (I assume, but I could be wrong) would swim far ahead of it's mate (I think it is his mate but could just be a close friend or distant cousin) the "male" would find this lime green sticky stuff that "seemed" to be a sponge. "He" would eat most of it and a minute or so later the mate would show up and eat the rest while the "male" would go off to find more lime green sticky stuff. This particular reef was only about 100 yards wide and was in Bora Bora.
But it doesn't only "seem" that they are hard to keep long term. It is a fact that absolutely none of them have been kept long term. Long term to me is not ten years but more like 20 as my fish live about that long or a little less depending on the species.

They seem to live in mated pairs and it also seems like the male finds the food which I have only seen to be a lime green sponge although I am sure they eat other things.

Anyone can dispute my findings but not by linking something to them, go to Bora Bora, jump in the water with your camera and check them out, maybe I am wrong or maybe the ones I saw were spastic or had a social disease.
I took these in Bora Bora.
In the second picture, you can see a lone moorish Idol at the very bottom, center of the picture,
The third picture is the lagoon on Bora Bora with our ship in it.
And of course our ship. It is just about the only ship we like to go on because there are only 150 people and has a dive shop on board.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/tahiti.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/Guppies.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/CopyofTahiti047.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/tahiti0400081.jpg