PF 601 setup

[kenargo]

I'm in the process of setting up a new PF601 with which I am using a SpectraPure LM III pump to control the output. Does anyone have suggestions as to the amount of water (per day) to configure the LM III to pump? In my old reactor I was pumping about 7L, at the moment I am using a setting of 5L.

One more question; do you dose 24 hours or stop dosing when lights are out. I noticed in the instructions it hints at turning off the CO2 at night. I find this idea somewhat flawed since the PH in the reactor would remain low for many hours of dosing, maybe even until morning and then there is the time to bring the reactor back down to operating PH but maybe there are other reasons for the suggestion.

Previously I dosed 24 hours, the effluent being dispensed into the section of my sump with chaeto (which takes up some CO2) and I dose Kalk (which also takes up CO2). Not being a long-time user of a fluidized reactor like this I was hoping to hear from other users.

Note: the reactor is doing OK; it ALK is 50 but the Ca is a bit low at aroud 620 (ish) (balanced level would be about 720 if my calculation is correct). I (suspect) this will balance over time or does the reactor output more ALK than Ca

[sjames]

Ken,

Im in the same boat as you. PF601 and LMIII. I initially set mine at 12 liters per day with some hasty calculations based on 20 drops per ml. I have not dialed it in yet, but it is not keeping up with demand currently. I add some baking soda about once a week till i get off my lazy *** and take my test kit to the basement.

Im doing about 1.5 bubbles per sec of co2 and 12 liters per day ATM.

I added some dolomite to mine, that part seems to be working great for mg.

[kenargo]

I talked to Marvin and he helped a bit. I've found that it takes a few days before it really kicks in. I use a PH probe connected to mine so that I can monitor/control the PH (the reactor likes is quite low (6.2). Are you using the Rowalith C+ media?

[sjames]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12542603#post12542603 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenargo
I talked to Marvin and he helped a bit. I've found that it takes a few days before it really kicks in. I use a PH probe connected to mine so that I can monitor/control the PH (the reactor likes is quite low (6.2). Are you using the Rowalith C+ media?

yep, I'm using rowalith C+. Ive just been lazy, I have a probe expansion mod to control pH in the reactor but I have not hooked it up yet. I have not measured my current effluent dkh either. :>

I was hopeing I would be able to get lucky and get it dialed in just from the instructions.

[skydancer]

Same problems here. I put the 601 in line in Feb/2008. For 3 months now, I'm trying to "dial it in".
I use rowalithc+. I started with 8 hours ON and regulate it with a PH probe thru my AC3Pro to turn off at 6.15 and On at 6.45. As you said above, it takes hours for the PH to go above 7 at night, so I don't understand the use of turning it OFF at night.

My next try will be to have it ON (but regulated) 24/7 and if it's too much, I"ll start cutting back...

[sjames]

I really need to get mine dialed in, im getting alot of what appears to be precipitation in the area that the outlet discharges.

Im discharging near the inlet to my skimmer so im wondering if the skimmer is driving the effluent pH up to fast causeing the precip.

[kenargo]

I have my output just at the top of heavy water movement and don't get any precipitation. Try moving the output to a high water flow area and see if that works.

[sjames]

I moved my discharge last night, Ill have to check my alk after work.

What are your current settings Ken? (bubbles per sec and liters per hour)

After some reading it seems like I was using a flow rate that was much too slow.

[kenargo]

I am not 100% tuned in but I am getting close; Mag is being maintained and Ca/Alk is getting real close to holding day over day.

I am currently running 7 liters per day (I use a LiteMeter 3 to control output). I run the reactor at a PH of 6.2-6.4 (controlled using a probe and controller).

[sjames]

well, i hooked up my probe expansion finally

my ph inside the reactor is 6.23 atm. my effluent dKH is 40.

I cranked up the pump rate to tonight to 20 liters per day on the LMIII to see if I can get closer to maintaining my levels. I must be consuming alot of alk if this thing isnt keeping up now.

[CaptiveReefSystems]

don't make the setup harder then it needs to be. ROWAlith C+ needs the pH to be around 6.2 before it will dissolve. Having a dKh of 40 is good. To get there you adjust the amount of water going through the reactor and the amount of CO2. More water flow requires more CO2 and less water flow requires less CO2. You want to find a water flow rate that is strong enough so as not to stop for whatever reason. I have found that if the flow rate is to low, the line or valve will clog and the water flow will stop. Once I have a constant water flow rate, I adjust the CO2 bubble count to get me close to 40 dKh.

One thing I have found is that you want the water to fall 4 to 6 inches from the end of the tube to the water in your sump. This will help shed some of the CO2. Doing this I have never had any negative effects on pH.

I also put the effluent line as close to the return pump intake as possible. I want the calcium rich water to get into the tank as soon as possible. I don't want that water going through all my equipment in my sump.

[kenargo]

I am currently running 7 liters per day

I stand corrected; I have my setting at 10 lpd; alk is 60.

[kenargo]

Update:

Still tuning; 20 lpd and counting....

Alk and CA is slipping a bit in the tank so I upped the setting to 20 lpd today.

[skydancer]

Are you running your reactor 24/7?

[kenargo]

Yes, I am running it 24x7

[skydancer]

What is the Ca reactor PH range you're trying to keep it within?

[kenargo]

I have the reactor monitored with a probe controlling CO2; the controller is set to maintain PH between 6.20 - 06.30.

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12646992#post12646992 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenargo
I have the reactor monitored with a probe controlling CO2; the controller is set to maintain PH between 6.20 - 06.30.
Only starting about 4 days ago...
I have mine running 24/7 and the PH range 6.45 to 6.55.
My calcium is at 420-430 and alk 8-9dkh for 4 days now.

Based on Doug's recommendation for 3 months prior to, I was running the reactor for 8hrs/day at 6.1 to 6.2 and had big ALK swings. (5 to 9 dkh)

It just about killed all my sps.

[kenargo]

I spoke with Marvin for some time when I was setting the unit up; he suggested running the Ph around 6.2-6.4. I understand that the ROWAlith C+ need this low PH to properly dissolve (remember you are dissolving 2 different media). As I understand it the output should be > 40 dkh; mine runs about 60.

How are you controlling the amount of water through the reactor? I use an LM3 which doses evenly over the 24 hours so I have not seen any swings (except for the daily expected PH swing).

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12647210#post12647210 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenargo
I spoke with Marvin for some time when I was setting the unit up; he suggested running the Ph around 6.2-6.4. I understand that the ROWAlith C+ need this low PH to properly dissolve (remember you are dissolving 2 different media). As I understand it the output should be > 40 dkh; mine runs about 60.

How are you controlling the amount of water through the reactor? I use an LM3 which doses evenly over the 24 hours so I have not seen any swings (except for the daily expected PH swing).
mine is a fast SINGLE drip. Like 2 drops per sec.
I have a little cheap plastic ($2) valve infront of my aqualifter that's feeding the reactor. The output is free flowing back into the sump.

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12647210#post12647210 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenargo
I As I understand it the output should be > 40 dkh; mine runs about 60.

I don't believe the effluent dkh is important. I was also trying to "dial in" the reactor for 3 -4 months with the understanding that the dkh should be between 30 - 40. I had the reactor PH down to 6.1 and my media was dissolving (melting) too quickly. Then another experienced reefer recommended I stop with this "maddness" and start with the reacotr PH at 6.6. and run the reactor 24/7 with a fast drip. Then monitor the Cal/Alk level of the tank and if need be lower the PH in the reactor to 6.5. Then after a few days measure the Ca/ALK of the tank again and adjust it down if needed.
I started mine at 6.6, and I'm now at 6.45 to 6.55 and my numbers are stable.

Why is then so important to monitor the effluent dkh??? so we can go thru the media faster???:D and buy more rowalith C+...

[kenargo]

The usage of the media should be the same and independent of PH if you are adjusting for tank needs; aka, you use the same amount of media in both cases.

If you run a higher dkh then you have more dissolved CA and you drip less effluent. If you run a lower dkh then you have less dissolved CA and drip more effluent. The media usage should be the same. So in some sense you are correct and dkh isn't important but it is relevant to balancing the reactor to the tank.

My understanding from talking to Marvin is that the lower PH is needed to dissolve the dolomite which helps to maintain magnesium and that a higher PH will not allow the dolomite to dissolve.

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12649050#post12649050 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by kenargo
The usage of the media should be the same and independent of PH if you are adjusting for tank needs; aka, you use the same amount of media in both cases.

If you run a higher dkh then you have more dissolved CA and you drip less effluent. If you run a lower dkh then you have less dissolved CA and drip more effluent. The media usage should be the same. So in some sense you are correct and dkh isn't important but it is relevant to balancing the reactor to the tank.

My understanding from talking to Marvin is that the lower PH is needed to dissolve the dolomite which helps to maintain magnesium and that a higher PH will not allow the dolomite to dissolve.

I dose magnesum independently so disolving dolomite is not important to me.

I have to tell you that since I adjusted my ca reactor PH range from 6.45 - 6.55 the CO2 in the tank is not as high and therefore keeps the algae lower and the tank PH goes up to 8.25.

When my ca reactor PH was at 6.1, my tank PH would never go above 8.1.

Just my observations...

[kenargo]

When my ca reactor PH was at 6.1, my tank PH would never go above 8.1

My PH run 7.99 - 8.31 (night - day); likely just a difference between our setups and aeration sources thought.

But in either case; if you have it adjusted and it is handling your tank demands then that is most important. In the end everyone's setup will be a bit different.

[sjames]

so there is dolomite in the c+? thats an interesting tidbit that would have been better to know before I added dolomite to my reactor. :o

I up to 40lpd effluent rate and still falling behind. That may be because I did add dolomite.

[kenargo]

SJames, What is the dkh of the effliuent?

[sjames]

i get right at 40.

[kenargo]

As a reference; my effluent runs near 60 (dkh) but the PH is 6.2-6.3 in order to keep it there.

It's really a balancing act, lower PH, higher Dkh, less effluent through the system. Higher PH, lower dkh, more effluent through the system.

You need to watch the C02 though; at the lower PH you get more into the tank; I drip mine into the refugium, plant section which helps a lot and I have a good skimmer which I am also sure helps off gas it. I also use Kalk for make-up water which also helps remove C02. But then C02 is an issue with any reactor, just a little more an issue with a fluidized reactor as they tend to run at a lower PH (otherwise you are not getting the full benefits of the media). I haven't needed (so I haven't tried) the other tricks to offgas C02 (e.g., a second material chamber) but I guess you could do that if C02 became an issue???

[sjames]

co2 isnt currently an issue. Like you, i use limewater for topoff. My pH never falls below 8.

I did pull my media last night and just filled the reactor with c+.

[Canarygirl]

is there a "best practice" for how to wash the media well enough to get all the dust out prior to use?

I am going to be setting up a 601S in the next week...my first use of a fluidized Ca Rx.

Another question: do you believe that a ph probe on an ACIII will work well enough to control the ph in the Rx?

[CaptiveReefSystems]

I never wash my calcium media. sure, it will cloud the water for awhile, but I take the position why should I was away something my tank can use. thats just me.

I don't like to mix electricity and saltwater any more then I have to, so I don't use pH probes. I just measure the dKh on the effluent line to get to my 40 dKh I am shooting for.

[HookedOnReefing]

Same here. I don't wash the media either.

[kenargo]

The Rowalith C+ media directions say to rinse so I do. The directions suggest that you could have premature motor failure if you do not.

I rinse it using a (small) kitchen strainer so that the dolomite doesn't fall through, repeating batches until the reactor is full to the line.

I use a PH probe to control my PH but you could do it by monitoring the output effluent's dkh but I prefer the probe method to keep the pH low enough; the reactor likes to run down near 6.2.

[HookedOnReefing]

I don't believe the dust harms the motor. Instead too high a flow which violently whips the media around rather than lightly tumbling the media, can shoot the actual "stones" into the pump intake and seizing up the impeller. But dust doesn't. After all, the tumbling of the media causes dust to be formed on a continuous basis... Off-course this is just all IMO.

[kenargo]

My guess, and only a guess is that the 'dust' on the product, and the reason the direction say to rinse is that it is larger particle sizes than would otherwise be available in the reactor and since it would get flushed into the tank it would be useless to the inhabitants and would just settle out.

The working reactor will be dissolving the material and the cloudiness within the reactor is suspended calcium and other minerals, but within the reactor it is much more dissolved so when placed into the tank is useful to tank inhabitants and won't settle out.

You can sort of tell the difference; if you just add the material to the reactor and don't rinse the 'dust' stays in the water column for some time but with the reactor running the cloudy water gets dispersed very quickly, not clouding the tank water at all.

[Canarygirl]

Does the C+ media contain enough magnesium that it's not necessary to supplement? Like, can you keep your mg at 1300+ strictly by the use of this Rx media? I normally added KZ mg crystals to my reactor...

[kenargo]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12756675#post12756675 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canarygirl
Does the C+ media contain enough magnesium that it's not necessary to supplement? Like, can you keep your mg at 1300+ strictly by the use of this Rx media? I normally added KZ mg crystals to my reactor...

The C+ media contains dolomite which releases magnesium. Yes, it does; I keep mine near 1400 and I have not been required to add mag for a many weeks; levels are holding. Previously I also needed to add mag to maintain, not any more (so far).

Note; it won't raise the levels if they are low though.

[Canarygirl]

got it; thanks

[Blaster]

Do you guys go through lots of co2.I only have one coral in my tank for now and been playing with this reactors sttings and go threw a 10lb cannister in a month.I definately don't have a leak and find these fludized skimmers hard to dial in.Its the pf 509 model

[Blaster]

effulent is 6.20

[skydancer]

Something is wrong if you go thru 10 lbs of CO2 in a month.
I have my reactor range from 6.45 to 6.55 and a 5lb CO2 lasts me 5+ months

[Canarygirl]

skydancer (and others),

Do you run your reactor 24/7, strictly by the ph controller? Or did you dial it in to run only a certain number of hours per day based on your tank's utilization?

[CaptiveReefSystems]

sounds like there is a leak somewhere. what kind of bubble count do you have. for example one per second.

[Blaster]

It was one per second

[CaptiveReefSystems]

then I would be looking for a leak. I have that same bubble count and have 5# bottles that last 6 months or more.

[skydancer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12942582#post12942582 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Canarygirl
skydancer (and others),

Do you run your reactor 24/7, strictly by the ph controller? Or did you dial it in to run only a certain number of hours per day based on your tank's utilization?

I run mine 24/7 with a PH controller. I only adjust the PH range as the tank calcium requirements increases.
I started the CA reactor PH at 6.5.to 6.6 and now have lowered it to 6.45 to 6.55.

I would not recemmend running the reactor for a few hours per day. The CA and ALK sings are too large and the system can't balance.
I had a very hard time and many alk swings when I was only running it for 8 hrs per day (during the day).

[Canarygirl]

thankyou, I'll try to dial it in that way, then. I'm setting mine up this week and am pretty nervous about it. It's risky having a tank full of SPS and a brand new (to me) Ca Rx to dial in.

[kenargo]

I also run mine 24x7 using a PH probe to keep the PH in the reactor at 6.2-6.3. Now I'll caveat; I don't run a continuous stream of water through the reactor; I control the amount added to the tank using a LiteMeter (LMIII); currently about 35 lpd and for the past couple of months the magnesium, alk and calk have been solid and sps growth very good.