acclimating to new tank??

[kenyacat]

Okay so we are about a month away from our upgrade. We have the new tank. We just need to get the GFCI outlet and a new window put in near where the tank will be. My old 29 gallon is about 3 to 4 feet away from where the new one will be.

I was thinking it would be less stressful for livestock and me if I can acclimate the entire old tank with the new one since all sand, rock, livestock and water are going into the new one.

Is there an easy way, (without buying all kinds of stuff) that I can hook up the two to share water very very slowly for maybe a day. Then I could just transfer them over to the new tank. Seems like it would be less stressful then putting livestock in bags then acclimate then in new tank. They would only have a short trip to the new tank. Mainly concerned about the 12' Sebae anemone.

Any suggestions?

[Capt_Cully]

What size are you up grading to?

I'd set that tank up. Move all of the LR out and into the new one, then add as much of your old water as you can to it. As you move the rock, you should be able to catch all of your fish. Put them in a rubbermaid or bucket with some of the old water. Move them over towards the new tank and set up a drip line. It will keep them out of the way and minimally stressed while they acclimate. Do it slowly allowing your new tank to settle with the crud that kicks up off of the rocks. Then just pour everyone into the new tank.

I'd also be ready to do a couple of waterchanges over the next week or so. Some nasty stuff can get kicked up off of the rock causing a spike in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. A waterchange should put it in check. Don't worry about a full on cycle B/C your rock is already cured.

Good luck.

[Aquarist007]

good advice bu Capt_Cully

IMO I would not use the existing sand base--I would by new argonite wash it and set it up in the new tank first before you change over

[Capt_Cully]

2nd that Whole Heartedly! Transferring sand is a mess and IMO unneccessary. Spend the $20 and replace it.

[hawkeyes]

another option would be to run the two tanks at the same time and gradually transfer all your stuff over. spread it out over a week or two. i've had friends that had success with this when upgrading.

[kenyacat]

I am upgrading from a 29 to a 75 with sump. I already have 60 lbs of new sand for the new one. I was going to seed the new with the old sand.

Mainly concerned about the anemone handling the transfer well.

[JBuffetReefer]

If the new sand is not live, then you will have to cycle the new tank. would reccomend you spend a few extra bucks and buy all new live sand and save yourself the cycle time.

[Capt_Cully]

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with that. New Live rock would cause a cycle. But new sand will not especially if it is rinsed properly. I've done it several times with absolutely no ill effects. There is no die of on new sand to cause the cycle like un cured LR will.

[JBuffetReefer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12490612#post12490612 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Capt_Cully
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with that. New Live rock would cause a cycle. But new sand will not especially if it is rinsed properly. I've done it several times with absolutely no ill effects. There is no die of on new sand to cause the cycle like un cured LR will.

So you started a new tank with cured live rock, dead sand and new water and had no cycle? Did you have water from an established tank?

The last three tanks I setup, I used live sand, cured live rock and water (about 30-50%) from an established tank to avoid a cycle. This is the equivilent to performing a large water change on an established tank.

I am surprised to hear that you didn't have a cycle when not using live sand.

[kenyacat]

I have 60 lbs of Aragamax Sand. I am not planning on cycling. From the research I have done, my biofilter from my existing rocks, water and old sand (maybe just the top 1/4 inch) should be sufficient to handle the change. I have two clown fish, one sebae anemone, cleaner shrimp, brittle star and various snails. Moving from 29 to 75 with sump. So that is a massive water change.

So if I need about 10 to 15 pounds more of sand if I just use a small amount to seed, what kind would you recommend?

[Capt_Cully]

No, you won't have a cycle from the sand IMO. It's not live or dead when it's dry in a bag. LR has bacteria on it as well as sponges and other microorganisms that die off when it is uncured, causing a cycle.

If you rinse the new sand, it will become live when it has the beneficial bacteria from the rock grow on it. there's nothing on it to call it "dead sand". What's more, the new sand will provide more surface area for the beneficial bacteria to grow and help you with denitrification.

Live sand IME is a waste of money. It already has bacteria on it that can die causing a cycle.

His tank is already cycled. He's just moving up in size. Using fresh mixed salt water to make up the difference will not cause cured LR to re-cycle. If he used his old sand, it might kick up some wastes causing a mini amonia cycle. That's why I'd recommend pitching it. Saving some and going from tank to tank, with no stagnation will only benefit him in the long run. This will "seed" the new sand.

I top off my tank from time to time with rinsed, new, dry aragonite and it has no ill effects. To suggest otherwise IME and IMO is incorrect.

These are my opinions and experiences. Do with them what you will. I just wish everyone the best success in our hobby.

[nmbeg]

I am no expert here, but I am going to respectfully disagree with the Capt..... now this is just from what I have read in theory, as my experience is limited.

on the current tank, there is x amount of bacteria on the LR and y amount of bacteria on the LS. x+y is the total bacteria count, and it can handle the current bioload.

when moving to the new aquarium with fresh sand and old LR, you are only transferring x amount of bacteria (leaving y behind), while the bioload stays constant. x is not enough to handle the current bioload, so ammonia, nitrites, etc will build up until the bacteria have time to multiply and grow back up to the original x+y amount. that should in theory cause a mini cycle.

that being said, I am sure it will be "mini" and the livestock will do just fine.

there was a cool article somewhere that explains that there is no such thing as a cycle, only a moving state of equilibrium, but of course i can't find it now.

ps. pardon my algebra.

[Capt_Cully]

Noted.

But the new sand is no different than the glass walls of the aquarium. The bacteria will grow (not overgrow) to it's boundaries on the new sand. Cycles occur with die off causing spikes in ammonia, nitrite, then nitrate, until the current bacterial load equillibriates.

I'm not saying the stuff is sterile, but it doesn't have active bacterial loads that will die off, then put themselves in check as opportunistic organisms can do. A side effect of which would be the "cycle".

The particles of sand will allow the beneficial bacteria alot of surface area to proliferate, but it will not overgrow this in the absence of rotting die off materials like a usual rock curing environment.

My entire argument goes out the window if you are adding new uncured Live Rock, different story. New sand, will not cause a cycle, again, IME, IMO.

If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I've practiced what I preach on several occasions with no discernable bump in any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.

I think the guy's gonna be fine.

All due respect to above posters. Discussions like this are how we learn. I'm always open to suggestion and views of others.

Thanks,
Cully

[kenyacat]

Granted I will lose some bacteria from the sand I am not taking. But if I take the top 1/4 layer, that is where most of the bacteria and worms and such live, right. I think I will toss the bottom 3/4 of the sand as it might have built up stuff I do not want.

I have gotten some Colonize from Drs. Fosters and Smith. I know some people say that this bacterial stuff is usless, but I figured it couldn't hurt to add some once a week for the first month to just help stablize what I lost.

Plus, I do plan on having some extra water on hand just in case I need to do a water change. I plan on doing a water change after one week regardless.

Here is a thought on acclimating. What if I get the new one up and running (most likely a week before transfer as I want the sand to settle and make sure my sump plumbing is right) -- lets say start around 9 in the morning and maybe every half hour transfer 8 cups of the new tank water into old tank and 8 cups of old tank water into new tank. -- Do that all day until maybe 7 pm. Would that be enough of an acclimation for an anemone to then transfer? I would think that by that time, the PH, temp, salinity should all be the same in both tanks. Then I could just scoup up and move. Would probably move most of the rock and some sand before 7 pm, just leave the live stock until then. Am I way off base with that idea?

I may need some more sand too. 60 lbs of Aragamax Sand, what ever I take out to seed may not be enough for the recommended 1lb per gallon. Really do not need another 30 lbs, does anyone have any suggestions on what to add to the Aragamax?

[nmbeg]

noted Cully.

hugs.

[Capt_Cully]

Kenny, depends on if you want to do a Shallow Sand Bed (SSB) or Deep Sand Bed (DSB). Personally I don't have the strength, but I'd recommend a SSB as long as you have a good skimmer. 1-2 inches. This will open a whole new can-o-worms. There will be proponents and opponents to this so I'm gonna take my leave here.