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MinibowMatt
05/13/2008, 09:31 AM
would an LFS running apprx 600g in display, a 150 sump, and a 60g fuge (all on one system) benefit from a large Wet /Dry?

Here is the basis of the above Q....

my LFS has nutrient problems. they are using a 6' venturi fed recirc skimmer, and a large wet dry with bioballs (all made by saline solutions) on the above system.

Problems (IMO)
No one cleans the skimmer, it is an auto draining cup...skimmer has hair algae in the reaction chamber
The wet dry isnt cleaned either, except the filter pad.
The fuge is too hot, and full of too much rubble, causing small pockets of high nutirent that dump to the sump when the fuge is stirred...

If the fuge was built up to be more successful, (no problem) and the skimmer was placed on routine maintenance, could the wet/dry be removed? I feel the wet/dry is adding more nutrient than its removing...

What do you think?

This is a CORAL system only, just a few inverts and working fish...

fatrip
05/13/2008, 05:05 PM
if there is no maitance being done on the skimmer then they arnt mantaining the wet dry so it is most likly the cause of every problem in the tank. also if hair algea is growing in the skmmier than there isnt a big enough pump on it or there is way to much light on it. i would suggest to take the rock out of the fuge esp if there is more than bout 600lbs in the main or sump. i would also suggest that they do not have the skimmer auto drain outside the sump. if it ever acted up it could protentially drain the sump.

A.T.T.R
05/15/2008, 06:40 PM
bio balls dont hurt esp when you have liverock

no need to remove it it aids in evap if anyhting



roDI water.
cleaning the skimmer
and h20 changes with good water will all help
tell them to feed alot less



what type of probloms is teh display having?

MinibowMatt
05/16/2008, 06:30 AM
the display problems are:
cyano
FW
color loss leading to RTN on SPS and finicky LPS.
Algae growth- HA, turf types...

The RO/DI or WC isnt the issue.
Maintenance definetly is. I doubt there is enough LR in the system either.

The skimmer draining the sump wouldnt be an issue either.. many redundant overflows/topoffs are built in.

fatrip
05/16/2008, 06:36 AM
it sounds like a nutrient issue. are the parameters stable..temp, alk, cal, mg, and salinity?? is the sump clean and free of ditrus? the bio balls ATTR says they dont hurt but if they are traping ditrus and they arnt cleaned that is a huge nitrate trap. also how much and what do they feed the tank? anything really high in phosphates. quick fix to stop the hair algea from growing more use phosbuster pro. it will elliminate the phosphates in the water so you will have time to find the problem and fix it before the HA gets out of control.

MinibowMatt
05/16/2008, 08:13 AM
the tanks arent fed much, as they are a coral only system.
its my opinion that the high nutrients are from the fuge rubble, and the bio balls.

the sump doesnt have very much detritus in it. there is about 300# cured LR in the sump/system.

fatrip
05/16/2008, 08:27 AM
i would say redo the fuge and take the rubble out of it. if there is room add at least a 100lbs more of LR. what is there dosing system like?

MinibowMatt
05/16/2008, 09:25 AM
params have been stable for the most part. Im not sure they are dosing anything.

fatrip
05/16/2008, 09:47 AM
that is interesting. how are they running a 600g coral tank with out dosing anything?? that could be another one of your problems the Ca, Alk and Mag as well as trace elements are probibly being depleted very quickly and if they are just relying on water changes to bring them back up it would seem to me that they wouldnt be high enought or the would fluctuate all over the place.

A.T.T.R
05/16/2008, 05:29 PM
did you know that if you stick a wadd of rotten meat in the protine skimmer it can be bad as well?



yeah if the bio balls have crude in it then somthing else is wrong( no prefilter) anything can be bad 2wen not used properly


and nutrients have to come from some where.. bio balls dont make NO3 unless somting in the system is producing ammonia.
and fuges dont release anyhting unless there is somting trapped.


personaly i think a drain and refill is in order. get everything perfect to start with and work from there. it is alot easier then dealing with years of build up and it wont hurt the corals much if at all



they should have either a kalk reactor or a CA reactor if this is an lps or sps tank

in smaller systems bionic is great ( non diy two part. the diy leaves a lot lacking) but is to costly in the larger systems.




get us some real number to work with

TDS of input water ( ro) dont be supprised if it isnt working properly

CA MG ALK Po4
and they even have a disolved oganic test that you can run

water motion?

A.T.T.R
05/16/2008, 05:32 PM
btw this tank sounds almost as bad as the tank where i work when the new owners took over brown or dead sps lol


problom was solved by doing a few large h20 changes and switching to bionic asreplacing bulbs and adding more water motion

that was untill some one dumped copper in the reef tnak
but guess what it is back to normal.

fatrip
05/16/2008, 05:45 PM
"and nutrients have to come from some where.. bio balls dont make NO3 unless somting in the system is producing ammonia.
and fuges dont release anyhting unless there is somting trapped."

well he did say that the skimmer was growing algea on the inside and they dont do any maintance on the tank. so first thought when not maintained would be the filter mech (bioballs) hve alot of ditrus build up and would creat high amonnia that would be converted to high nitrates...but yes i would say some numbers would be good to work with as well.

A.T.T.R
05/16/2008, 05:52 PM
yea im sorry about that

lol

im just sick of the bio ball argument as i have had luck and usualy the problom lies else where ( of course once they relize the probom they remove ioballs and fix the otehr probloms hence the bioballs get blamed)

but yea the point is the problom started else where and the bioballs ofcourse arnt making it any better.

first step... clean teh bio balls

second step fix teh skimmer
third grown some darn chato

JaredWaites
05/16/2008, 08:17 PM
BTW:

Bioballs are Nitrate factories for a reef tank. You won't need them to hold bacteria if you have liverock.

Therefore removing them gradually will help with the reduction of Nitrates. You should probably only remove 1/4 of the balls per week until they are all gone. This allows your system to adjust slowly.

fatrip
05/16/2008, 09:23 PM
but there is only 300lbs in a 800g system...not enought in my opinion so you need something mroe than just LR for biological filtration there for the bio balls. i wouldnt remove them unless you plan on gettin alot more LR in there. I would suggest doing routine mantaince on them tho because if not properly maintained they do turn into ammonia trap that produce a hole lot of nitrates.

ATTR i understand. when some one is bashing something that you use and know to work you get frustrated...no problem i do the samething...lol...i should have explained my self for blaming it in the first place.

A.T.T.R
05/16/2008, 11:45 PM
more live rock or deeper sand bed would help as well

problom is your making no3 but not getting rid of it
and deep sand bed as in 3 -5 inches wouldwork very well

they could also VERY EASILY make a denitrator for a few bucks

A.T.T.R
05/16/2008, 11:47 PM
btw i dont use bio balls but at work
and in my sump but submerged for helping micro bubbles
i run nothing on my prop systems. they are literaly tanks with sand and LR and powerheads

MinibowMatt
05/17/2008, 06:21 AM
Well, based on me not having actual numbers, I will conclude lack of maintenance is causing the bioballs and fuge to contain and release nitrates into the system.

I think eventual removal of the W/D is their best option, and to maintain the system appropriately. Keep the skimmer clean, and re-build the fuge, possibly add another..