Another faded SPS thread... Please help.

[bdare]

Hi all,

I'm hoping for a little help as you've all helped those that came before me. I've read a lot of other peoples threads on the issue, but as I'm sure you know each tank is different. Here are some specs on my tank:

40 Breeder
1 x 250W Phoenix 14K powered by an IceCap ballast 11:00 - 19:00
2 x 39w T5's (Blue+ / Aquablue) - 9:00 - 20:30

Flow:
- Return pump Eheim 1260 (600gph)split by a T.
- Closed Loop - Panword 50x-px (1100gph) split by an OM 2 way. Each split has 2 outputs on either side of the tank. Back and forth motion...

20H sump (Drain / Fuge / Return)
- Middle section filled with LR rubble and cheato. Vacumed occasionaly during water changes.
- Octopus EXT-PS-120 skimmer w/Minijet 600 feed pump.
- Phosban reactor (not currently in use but will run GFO / GAC)

- I've got lots of snails (cerith and Trochus), 1 conch, 1 turbo and about 6 scarlet hermits.

Fish:
1 6 line wrasse
2 Percula clowns
1 Hi fin red banded goby

I feed 1 or 1/2 cube per day depending on the food. I usually feed a mix of frozen rotifiers, cyclopeze, and mysis. I also occasionally (1-2 / week) DT's oyster eggs and DT phyto.

Temp: 79-81
Ph: 8.06 - 8.21
SG: 35ppt
Ca: 450 (Salifert)
Alk: 8-9dkh (API / LaMotte)
Mg: 1440 (Salifert)
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate - Don't test cause I can't afford a Hannah. Don't believe test kits are that accurate.

All my make-up and top off water is 0 TDS RO/DI. I dose with a LMIII and also add 1Tbs of Kalk to 5 gallons of RO/DI for top off. I only dose 2 part from bulkreefsupply. Right now my LMIII is set to dose about 250ml of each part. This seems like toooo much to me, but if I dose less, my levels drop.

Now the problem.... I have a few Digi's that look great (pink / purple / German blue). I also have a blue tort which has great color and a green and yellow millie. All of those look pretty good. Then I have a few which don't look so good. Blue Tennius, Green polyped birdsnest, purple monster, and an orange monit cap in the middle of the tank. All of them are very light in color. The tennius and PM are tan at best. The cap is still orange, but very light. I also have a Bali Green slimer which only looks good because of the green polyps. The underlying coral is pretty darn white. The tips have some green in them, but the base not so much...

Other corals include:
Variete of zoas / palys
Open brain
Candy Cane
Blastos
Ricordia
Derasa Clam
Frogspawn

I've made sure to keep the LPS isolated and nowhere near the SPS to prevent them from being stung.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. If you'd like more information, please let me know.

Thanks again!

Ben

[ZenMan]

Sounds to me like a potassium deficiency. You can subscribe to a one off test from aquariumwatertesting.com and they will tell you if any of your levels are off. Based on your description of the orange cap, I'd guess that you are potassium deficient though.

[ZenMan]

Great thread on RC about potassium. You can get cheap food grade potassium here:
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?c=1&pid=777

The RC thread is here:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=957770&perpage=25&highlight=dose%20potassium&pagenumber=1

Edited for Cliff Notes version of thread:
Some have noticed that with low K+ (potassium) their montis and other SPS appear faded.
After dosing K+ at a rate of 1 tsp of potassium chloride will raise 100g of water by 25ppm.
Dissolve 2 tsp of KCl in 1 cup of RO water and dose daily.

At one time I was 200ppm deficient. It took quite a bit of potassium to bring my levels up, and now my montis and SPS have all colored back up.

[GSMguy]

Zen man what Test kit are you using for potassium? or AWT only?

[ZenMan]

AWT only. But I hear zeovit has a good test kit for potassium.

[bdare]

I've considered dosing Potassium, but the inability (or lack of convenience) for getting Kcl tested makes me nervous.

[Duane867]

Ben if you actually pay aquariumwatertesting.com to test your water I'll smack you with my cyber homey clause sock ! They are the most inaccurate EVER and not to be trusted for reliable results based on several 1st hand accounts. So scratch them your better off with API test kits then using them.

I don't know exactly what to tell you about the potassium accept the potassium levels advertised in your salt, then test for it. I doubt thats it though. I am having the same problem with a Lokani, and a tenuis. Have you tried dipping them in Tech-D yet? Just to be sure...
If you want to test your potassium to see if that dog does indeed hunt:
$30.00
http://www.petsolutions.com/Potassium-Test-Kit+I12516807+C1.aspx

[AgentSPS]

What trace elements are you dosing?

[mpoletti]

IMO, Sounds like you might need some more nutients.

[bdare]

OCCASIONALY I'll dose Salifert's trace hard. I also have iodine, stontium and iron that I'll add sometimes.

[AgentSPS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12579444#post12579444 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bdare
OCCASIONALY I'll dose Salifert's trace hard. I also have iodine, stontium and iron that I'll add sometimes.

Try dosing the strontium and iodine on a weekly basis per instructions. Do it for a month and let us know.

[bdare]

Here are a few pictures I just snapped...

I actually think they are getting a little better. I've tried to feed more the last week or two and be more consistent with my additions of DT's.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture586.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture589.jpg

Birdsnest when I got it: (You can see the green bali slimer in the background)
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture018.jpg
Today:
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture585.jpg

Another reason I think it might be lack of nutrients is my zoas and palys aren't opening as wide as they used to. Case and point. Check out these purple heart plays when I got em:
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture051.jpg
Today:
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture591.jpg

Here's a FTS:
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j320/benandkatie1026/Picture592.jpg

[AgentSPS]

Yah looks like nutrient defficiency to me. those are super pale. Like a zeoholics fantasy.

[bdare]

So more food for the fishies and Oyster Eggs for the coral? Should I keep the GFO and GAC off for awhile longer?

[mpoletti]

How about another fish or two and feed them twice a day ;)

I believe in nutients though; take a look
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1394149

[bdare]

DAAAAAM!!!

That tank looks MONEY!!!

That's what I aspire to have. I didn't think I could have more fish. What would you guys suggest? I'm a little worried about the 6 line cause he's been in there awhile.

Thanks,
Ben

[mpoletti]

Even a school of chromis' or a couple anthias would add some color and nutrients.

[Duane867]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12579847#post12579847 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Marko9
How about another fish or two and feed them twice a day ;)

I believe in nutients though; take a look
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1394149

And now so do I !!
:HAHA:

[CW from the OC]

How are you checking salinity? Low salinity will cause this as well as the others mentioned.

If you are using a refractometer calibrated with RO/DI or distilled water, this is likely the cause. I had similar problems, and did not resolve them until I bought some Pinpoint 35ppt calibration fluid from marine depot. Turns out my refract was reading 35ppt, but the tank was only 30ppt. After I recalibrated the refractometer, my corals made dramatic recoveries in literally a few days.

More on refractometer errors and calibration can be found here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php

I've since seen several other highly experienced reefers have the same problem, as well as one famous LFS here in SoCal.

[bdare]

Thanks for the info. I actually spend quite a bit of time in the Chem forum here and I've been calibrating my refractometers with calibration fluid.

Good idea though!!!

thanks again,
Ben

[CW from the OC]

Good to hear. Too bad it wasn't that simple. Keep trying!!

[AgentSPS]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12584960#post12584960 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CW from the OC
I had similar problems, and did not resolve them until I bought some Pinpoint 35ppt calibration fluid from marine depot.

Is this the fluid you purchased? Does not make any mention of 35ppt.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~SearchStr~salinity%20calibration%20fluid~action~view~idProduct~AM1437~idCategory~FITECL~ category~American_Marine_Pinpoint_Salinity_Calibration_Fluid_Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies_Testing_Equ ipment_Calibration_Solution~vendor~.html

<img src=http://www.f3images.com/IMD/250/AM1437/AM1437_1.jpg>

[bdare]

That's what I've got. It acuatly says 53DmS on the other side. (Don't quote me... I think that's right)
Read here:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-12/rhf/index.php

[AgentSPS]

Found this in the article which helps:

How to best use a conductivity standard depends a bit on the meter involved. If the meter can be calibrated, then my suggestion is to get the solution to about 25°C (exactly that temperature if the meter doesn't automatically compensate for temperature, but that would be unusual) and then adjust the meter until it reads 53 mS/cm or S=35 (depending on the output).

Many meters, however, do not allow such calibration. In that case, measure the conductivity or salinity of the standard, and then set up a correction ratio that is applied manually. For example, if the standard reads 56 mS/cm, then multiply all readings on that meter by 53/56 (0.946) to get a corrected reading. The same correction could apply to salinity. For example, if it reads S=38 (or 38 ppt), then multiply every reading by 35/38 = 0.921.

[CW from the OC]

That is the right stuff. Randy actually spoke to the Pinpoint people and confirmed that it works for refrats. He posted it in a thread somethere, I'll let you search and find it if you want to confirm.

It appears from Randy's article linked above, that if you have a temperature compensating refractometer, you do not need to make any adjustments for temperature. Simply wait long enough for the sample to come to the temperature of the refractometer, and set to 35ppt.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[bdare]

You are correct on the temp thing. It will make a SLIGHT difference but undetectable for our needs.

Well... I just placed an order for some Warner Marine aminos and potassium. I also ordered some reef frenzy food. Anyone tried it?

Ben

[empireinc00]

your problem sounded like mine. All my monti cap started to fade and almost bleach. LPS also look ugly. All other water parameter were perfect. THen I came across article about the potassium. I tested it and I found out that it was around 200 ppm lower than normal. This happened after I added 10 more mangrove in the system (i have 22 total) So I dosed K nowfoods brand for 1 bottle for 3 weeks. now my coral back are alive and color up once again. My thought is you might have potassium defiency.. good luck