Mouth full of babies... HELP!

[Kannin]

My Banggaii's have bred. What I have read, says that the gestation period is 18 to 21 days. I moved him on the 20th day to a 10 gallon tank. It is now the 27th day and he still hasn't released the fry. They are trying to get out. There have been some live fish in his mouth since the 19th day. The earliest hatched must be starving.

What can I do??? Short of grabbing him by the tail and shaking him like I want his lunch money.

[Robb in Austin]

You might try to net him. If they are anything like Malawi Mbuna he may spit then, hopefully right in the net.

Good luck!

[meschaefer]

I used to have a breeding pair. Don't worry about it, he will release them when it is time. Remember, he hasn't eaten anything either and will get hungry soon enough.

[Kannin]

What's the longest your's ever took to release?

[meschaefer]

I don't have that information in front of me, I would need to go find my notes.

[Kannin]

I'll hold...

[scrmbld33]

any pics of the little guy with the babies in his mouth? ive been looking at getting a few card's, is there a easy way to tell the males from the fems?

[Kannin]

Got babies!!! 19 of them came out after lights out last night.

The anterior dorsal fin on the males has a black banner at it's tip and the females have a more rounded lower jaw and abdomen. It's such a slight difference... that it's difficult to look at one fish and decide if it's a male or female. You really need to view them both side by side to notice.

[scrmbld33]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12592466#post12592466 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
Got babies!!! 19 of them came out after lights out last night.

The anterior dorsal fin on the males has a black banner at it's tip and the females have a more rounded lower jaw and abdomen. It's such a slight difference... that it's difficult to look at one fish and decide if it's a male or female. You really need to view them both side by side to notice.

thanks, we need pics!!!!!! :) or sending me a few babies :)

[kar93]

Yes, pics! Are you trying to raise them?

[meschaefer]

Congratulations, I knew they would come out. (I couldn't find my notes)

I had success feeding them newly hatched brine shrimp. They need to be feed within a few hours of the shrimp hatching, when it still has it's yolk sac attached.

[Mykel Obvious]

This thread is now useless without PHOTOS!!!

:D

[HoopsGuru]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12592466#post12592466 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kannin
Got babies!!! 19 of them came out after lights out last night.

The anterior dorsal fin on the males has a black banner at it's tip and the females have a more rounded lower jaw and abdomen. It's such a slight difference... that it's difficult to look at one fish and decide if it's a male or female. You really need to view them both side by side to notice.

I don't have an opinion on this, but I wanted to add I asked F. Marini recently the same question and he stated it is only about a 50/50 shot to establish the gender based on exterior characteristics. The choice on the breeders forums now is to buy several and allow a pair to form, then remove the rest. I currently have a formed pair that I have made a "guess" on and I'll see if I got lucky on which is which.

Congrats on your babies, I envy your success and enjoy raising them! :thumbsup:

[Kannin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12601027#post12601027 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by HoopsGuru
I don't have an opinion on this, but I wanted to add I asked F. Marini recently the same question and he stated it is only about a 50/50 shot to establish the gender based on exterior characteristics. The choice on the breeders forums now is to buy several and allow a pair to form, then remove the rest. I currently have a formed pair that I have made a "guess" on and I'll see if I got lucky on which is which.

Congrats on your babies, I envy your success and enjoy raising them! :thumbsup:

I thought I had their genders figured out but, the one I had sexed as the female... is the one that carried the babies.

[Kannin]

I have plenty of pics but, am having software issues. Sorry.

[Kannin]

Ok!!! Before the move...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1857.jpg

The new home... day 21
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1891.jpg

after the move...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1892.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1898.jpg

full mouth day 27...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1903.jpg

Babies day 28...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1915.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1916.jpg

[chrismunn]

so was this a complete accident, and you got lucky with the survival rate, or had you planned for this?

[Kannin]

I planned it as best I could. I reserched it some and asked a lot of questions. What's really burning me... is I can't successfully hatch brine shrimp. I've been feeding cyclopeeze.

[scrmbld33]

thanks for the pics!!!!!!

[Tswifty]

what kind of setup do you have in the tank where they hatched as far as equipment?

[chrismunn]

planned on it, like you were expecting the spawn, or planned it like, you prepared yourself in case of a spawn? in any case thats awsome!

whats the protocal for hatching baby brine? isnt it the same as hatching sea monkeys? c'mon dude, a 5 year old can hatch sea monkeys! :D

[spleen93]

You can improve the hatch rate by decapsulating the brine shrimp eggs before hatching. Soak the brine shrimp eggs in one gallon of fresh water x 1 hour, then add one gallon of plain bleach (5% chlorine) and watch the eggs turn white and then orange and sink. As soon as all the eggs do, drain out the solution into a brine shrimp net and rinse in running tap water until the bleach smell is gone. Hatch the decapsulated eggs like normal. The eggs that you don't hatch immediately can be stored in the fridge in a saturated saline solution (table salt dissolved in water until no more can be dissolved in).

This (http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/What-are-decapsulated-brine-shrimp-eggs-c120.html) is more detailed (and complicated) instructions on this. :)

[Kannin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12608195#post12608195 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by chrismunn
planned on it, like you were expecting the spawn, or planned it like, you prepared yourself in case of a spawn? in any case thats awsome!

whats the protocal for hatching baby brine? isnt it the same as hatching sea monkeys? c'mon dude, a 5 year old can hatch sea monkeys! :D

They paired off within two weeks of me getting them. Then I noticed mating behavior. This is where the male swims behind the female nipping at the sides of her abdomen, near the vent. Then on a Friday morning, about a month or so after pairing... I noticed he did not eat. I suspected that he had eggs in his mouth, and confirmed it sometime that weekend. When he would shift them around... I could see the big red ballin his mouth.

20 days later... I moved him to a 10 gallon tank that used to be a little freshwater tank for tetras. (when I moved him, I used water from the display, in order to reduce stress) I really expected the release within a day or so... but, it took seven. They were trying to get out for 3 or 4 days prior to the release... which started happening shortly after lights out, around 11:00. At 12:30am... there were 12 released and by morning, there were 18 and the father was ready to eat again. I moved him back to the display later that day and the mate was very interested in him.

I was feeding them cyclopeeze but, they weren't that interested... I finally figured out that the "seamonkeys" did hatch... they were just much smaller than I expected. The little guys go crazy when I put them in. I am feeding them four times a day, and today is their 4th day in the outside world. I still have all 18... knock on wood.

[DreamerTheresa]

That's too cool! Thanks for sharing pics!

[Kannin]

I think they're getting bigger...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1934.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1935.jpg

[Kannin]

So they spawned again... Only this time, I watched them. The female deposited some eggs in the males mouth. Then he put them in her mouth and, went back to wait for more. This happened three times... that I saw and then he followed her around.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1991.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1997.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1991.jpg

I still have babies that are only 2 1/2 weeks old. (18 still)...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_1988.jpg

[grizzleymatt]

sweet

[grizzleymatt]

sweet

[Gwynhidwy]

Congratulations, that's really cool.

[goochesfish]

Kannin it looks like you have 2 full time jobs. I think it's amazing you were able to catch the male from your tank especially with all it's nooks and crannies.

[laud]

Now that is cool.

[bobparker]

I would have like to have seen that. I told my wife in the other room about mouth breeders on this forum. We are now planning to pick up Banggaii withen the next couple of weeks. We have breed Neolamprolugus Brachardi and Speudochromis paralamprologus(SP?) "Tanganyikan Cichlids". The paralamprologus where astonishing to watch mating and catching the female as she spat them out. I would have loved to have got that on film.

[Kannin]

I think I'll have to get a divider to put in the breeder tank. I don't think the first litter will be big enough to sell yet... by the time the second litter is born. Listen to me... it sounds like I'm talking about puppies.

[Kannin]

Well... I got a divider, and I put the pregnant female in the brood tank on the 23rd day. She had about half of the babies in the first night. Last time it took 27 days and they all hatched in the same night. Two of the older fry got thru the screen after dark and killed a new baby. The next morning... I went and got a 5 gallon with a little filter, light and a heater and moved the little guys. All 42 of them. Yes... I said 42.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_2063.jpg

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_2060.jpg

[Kannin]

Here she is with babies trying to get out...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_2056.jpg

Here she is back in the display with her mate. I kept her in the brood tank for 4 days to fatten her up. I fed her 4 times a day as much as she would eat. Last time... I moved her right away and she never really got much of a chance to eat before she had a mouth full of new eggs in 17 days.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w172/Kannin_photos/100_2071.jpg

[spleify]

Wow!! Very cool thanks for sharing you're experiences.

Spleify

[Kannin]

They are carrying again. Only 6 days this time and she already has a mouthful.

[skeeter-doc]

wow, how big is the home tank the pair is in? Please let us know how you keep catching the fish out of that display with all that rock!

[Kannin]

It's a 220 gallon. She is pretty easy to catch... I just put a large net in front of her favorite spot and chase her to it with a smaller net. I'm a little worried though about her health. Last time... it took 17 days for her to spawn after the first hatching. This time, it was only 6 or 7. She didn't even have a chance to fatten up. I wouldn't be surprised if she spits them out in a week.

[Tswifty]

what have you been feeding the babies for the past 2-1/2 weeks... were you able to get live brine?

[Kannin]

I hatch live brine every 36 hours... I have been weining the first litter off of it, by feeding cyclopeezeand mysis. 100% of their diet is live brine until they are about 3 weeks old and then I start adding the cyclopeeze for a couple weeks and then the mysis.

[TomRep]

I think HE has a mouthfull. Pretty sure the male carries the babies to term ;)
tom

[Kannin]

Look at this video. As I said... I watched the second spawning and I am positive that it is the female... at my house. I think that the female may pick up the slack if the male won't carry them... as the following video would indicate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbxQg1VeXc8

[skeeter-doc]

wow great vid, quite the stubborn male you do have there, but I didn't see her get the eggs fertilzed in her mouth?

[Kannin]

That is not my pair. Mine do it a little different. I do believe that the eggs are fertilized prior to the transfer.

[nauticac4]

You may want to check out the breeder challenge on marinebreeders.org . This year one of the fish is the bangaii (sp?) cardinal. You maybe able to share information with other to help facilitate a healthy captive breed population so we can depend less on imports. This is a grat thread and hope you continue to document the progress.