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d_carloo
05/24/2008, 05:23 PM
my nitrates whent from 10 to 160 in a week I haven't done any think to the tank same fish what can it be

I have a 120 gall

sump W/ a acua c skimmer

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 05:38 PM
my guess would be testing error either one of the times.

what do you al have for fish?
how much LR?
when was your last water change and how much.

Capt_Cully
05/24/2008, 06:35 PM
anything dead?
do you use filter floss or a filter bag?

d_carloo
05/24/2008, 06:40 PM
filter sack in my sump and no deads

I have a calwnd fish 3 fire fish and 2 gobys i did a whater change last weekend 7 gal

mckaax
05/24/2008, 06:44 PM
I would have to say something is dead or you are getting bad test results.

rhkingsfan
05/24/2008, 06:50 PM
Someone previously said that Nitrates mean almost nothing to fish and that one should only worry about Nitrite and Ammonia. Any truth to this?

Reefing Runners
05/24/2008, 06:52 PM
absolutely WRONG!

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 07:10 PM
nitrite is harmless in SW.

ammonia - yes very deadly

nitrates - fish can tolarate alot more than corals and inverts but still best to keep them low.

Capt_Cully
05/24/2008, 07:13 PM
when's last time you changed or washed filter bag?

they collect alot of crud, and after a while they end up leaching nitrates back into the water.

d_carloo
05/24/2008, 07:32 PM
I change and wash the baga avery week I have 5

demonsp
05/24/2008, 07:43 PM
5 filter bags.Why?

Whats the tanks size?
Tanks age?
Amount of last water change and how long ago?

Capt_Cully
05/24/2008, 07:44 PM
did you reconfirm your result? still 160?

Capt_Cully
05/24/2008, 07:45 PM
I'm guessin he has five so he can change them. I myself have 4. Change it once a week. When I get 3 dirty, clean one goes on, 3 go in the wash.

demonsp
05/24/2008, 07:58 PM
5 bags all cleaned at one time can cause this but i dought this alone made it rise that much. He gives very little info on his setup so how much can we help. Though this does leave room from lots of guessing and then he can choice which guess sounds more to his likeing.

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 08:15 PM
kau_cinta_ku - Did you really say this?

"nitrite is harmless in SW."

My friend. I see you're an RC Team Member with 7230 posts to your credit, and you're probably a very smart guy, but don't you think it would be better if you didn't post such nonsense in this forum, where many newbies look for reliable information?

FYI, and I find it truly amusing that I should be correcting someone who is obviously a very knowledgeable fellow, nitrite is actually MORE poisonous to saltwater fish than ammonia.

Read up:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nitrite+poison+saltwater+aquarium&btnG=Google+Search

boxerzz
05/24/2008, 09:09 PM
Yeah, I never thought that nitrite is 'harmless'

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 09:34 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12608362#post12608362 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
kau_cinta_ku - Did you really say this?

"nitrite is harmless in SW."

My friend. I see you're an RC Team Member with 7230 posts to your credit, and you're probably a very smart guy, but don't you think it would be better if you didn't post such nonsense in this forum, where many newbies look for reliable information?

FYI, and I find it truly amusing that I should be correcting someone who is obviously a very knowledgeable fellow, nitrite is actually MORE poisonous to saltwater fish than ammonia.

Read up:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nitrite+poison+saltwater+aquarium&btnG=Google+Search

yes I did say that, and here is my backup. :)
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 09:42 PM
here is another person talking about nitrite. read the last post.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1348332&highlight=nitrite

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 09:46 PM
"Summary

As far as has been studied, nitrite is not as toxic to marine fish as it is to freshwater fish. This difference is striking, with some of the most sensitive freshwater species being more than a thousand times more sensitive than typical marine species. Does this apply to all fish that might be kept in reef aquaria? I have no way of knowing."

Repeat: I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING

Mr. Farley, I have learned, is very long on commentary and prognostication, and very short on empirical scientific data, despite his proclivity to represent his theories (suspicions?) as proven fact.

See my challenge to Mr. Farley here regarding his assertion that replacing bio-balls with live rock is a proven method of reducing nitrates.

IMHO, with all due respect, the guy is a clown.

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 09:49 PM
Link to my answer to Mr. Farley on Nitrates, bio-balls and live rock:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1378586

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 09:52 PM
you can take it how you want, nothing against you :)

but I will take his word over a company that sells test kits for nitrite that states nitrite is more toxic than ammonia. (of course they are gonna say that so they can sell a product) goes for most company's

Randy don't sell anything and is not getting any money and such for his research.

as for replacing bioballs with LR. yes LR works better than bioballs IMO but if the bioballs were submerged rather than in a wet/dry type system then they would work as good as LR.

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 09:55 PM
"as for replacing bioballs with LR. yes LR works better than bioballs IMO but if the bioballs were submerged rather than in a wet/dry type system then they would work as good as LR."

And I suppose you have some scientific data to back this up?

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 10:01 PM
kau_cinta_ku

Most of those links that I referred you to were not companies selling test kits, but rather legitimate, unbiased sources with no agenda other than to provide responsible information.

But I guess you chose to ignore those.

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 10:04 PM
no data to back it up, as I stated it is my opinion.

LR gets the bacteria deep inside of the rock to convert ammonia to nitrite then to nitrate and then is taken out of the tank through nitrogen gas. same would go with bioballs.

but if bioballs are not submerged there is no way for it to rid the nitrates unless taken out and cleaned.

alpha0r
05/24/2008, 10:07 PM
Nitrate kits can give bad results if nitrite is present. Nitrate test kits convert nitrate to nitrite and then proceed from there. Thus even small amounts of nitrite could test like large amounts of nitrate. Probably something died which caused a little nitrate spike.

http://www.thekrib.com/Chemistry/nitrate.html

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 10:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12608876#post12608876 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
kau_cinta_ku

Most of those links that I referred you to were not companies selling test kits, but rather legitimate, unbiased sources with no agenda other than to provide responsible information.

But I guess you chose to ignore those.

I did not ignore them, but none of them really show proof that it is the nitrite is really the cause of the problem.

Randy has done experiments and such, showed graphs, ect. to add to his decision.

can you show me where someone else did the experiments and has graphs to show any diff.?

I will leave it at that though :D

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 10:11 PM
"LR gets the bacteria deep inside of the rock"

Stop. please. You're killing me.

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 10:15 PM
I have yet to see one controlled laboratory experiment conducted by Mr. Farley where he presented his findings in a clinical manner.

Show me one, if you can.

kau_cinta_ku
05/24/2008, 10:27 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12608920#post12608920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
"LR gets the bacteria deep inside of the rock"

Stop. please. You're killing me.

yes, deep in the rock where there is LOW O2 levels is where the bacteria changes nitrate to nitrogen gas.

bioballs don't have these low 02 areas for the bacteria to convert nitrate to nitogen gas.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12608920#post12608920 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
I have yet to see one controlled laboratory experiment conducted by Mr. Farley where he presented his findings in a clinical manner.

I am guessing none of the research that Randy has done and points out in that artical is proof enough?

now if you can show me a "controlled laboratory experiment" that does prove him diff. I will stop saying that nitrite is not toxic.

as of now I am done here :)

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 10:35 PM
Tell me, do your bacteria use a hammer and chisel to get "deep in the rock" or they they just plug in the jackhammer?

demonsp
05/24/2008, 10:47 PM
The beneficial bacteria is on and in and around any surface it can attach to . Anytime you remove or disturb this bacteria your stock could suffer.Remove more then can withstand the load your tank has then you could see a cycle from mini to major.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=saltaquarium&cdn=homegarden&tm=344&gps=143_503_994_486&f=22&su=p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.bestfish.com/newtank3.html

Nitrite in our hobby usually is only seen in new setups or during heavy cycles. (http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/bionitrogencycle/a/aa073199.htm )

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609023#post12609023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
Tell me, do your bacteria use a hammer and chisel to get "deep in the rock" or they they just plug in the jackhammer?

Toddrtrex
05/24/2008, 11:09 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12608812#post12608812 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047


IMHO, with all due respect, the guy is a clown.

Putting "all due respect" in front it calling someone a clown doesn't change a thing, that is still considered a personal attack, and that is frowned upon. Suggest you disagree without doing that.

SDguy
05/24/2008, 11:15 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609023#post12609023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
Tell me, do your bacteria use a hammer and chisel to get "deep in the rock" or they they just plug in the jackhammer?

Without getting technical.....bacteria are really really REALLY small, and don't require any sort of machinery to get into the porous areas of live rock :)

Toddrtrex
05/24/2008, 11:22 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609185#post12609185 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
Without getting technical.....bacteria are really really REALLY small, and don't require any sort of machinery to get into the porous areas of live rock :)

Then what are all those construction signs in my take for? ;) ;)

But, I do agree with you 100%.

Bruno3047
05/24/2008, 11:23 PM
Apologies for my use of the word "clown".

SDguy
05/24/2008, 11:25 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609217#post12609217 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Toddrtrex
Then what are all those construction signs in my take for? ;) ;)


Cheap alternative to corals?

Toddrtrex
05/24/2008, 11:26 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609230#post12609230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SDguy
Cheap alternative to corals?

You just might be right. Won't have to dose two part anymore. ;)

fattyratrat
05/24/2008, 11:30 PM
if we want to actually help out the guy who is asking something to better his tank and not just bickering about something that shouldn't be in anyones tank regardless of how bad they are... I suggest adding a fuge or a DSB to get rid of nitrates, either always work, and it can be as simple as adding a drilled bucket above your display or sump.

demonsp
05/24/2008, 11:32 PM
Or atleast add the funny quote that makes him funny. But if he meant a clown like the insane clown possie ( http://www.insaneclownposse.com/detect.php ) then this would be cool but bozo ( http://www.toonopedia.com/bozo.htm ) isnt.
What you think im funny, whats SO funny about me , you think im a clown , no tell me , Whats so funny about me. A quote from wiseguys but not word for word. :jester:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609219#post12609219 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
Apologies for my use of the word "clown".

demonsp
05/24/2008, 11:39 PM
Bingo............. Add a link or two and explain why he might be wrong. Just saying someones wrong without a reason only confuses it more and then leads to dumb repleys like ours. I think i learn more from bad advice then not giving any advice and bad advice also seems to get fast solid respones.Seems there are 10 people ready to correct bad advice to 1 person repleying to any thread.
Clowns are cool........WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609256#post12609256 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fattyratrat
if we want to actually help out the guy who is asking something to better his tank and not just bickering about something that shouldn't be in anyones tank regardless of how bad they are... I suggest adding a fuge or a DSB to get rid of nitrates, either always work, and it can be as simple as adding a drilled bucket above your display or sump.

d_carloo
05/25/2008, 12:21 PM
LOL five bags I change one clean for a durty and whashe them all in the weekend


then you for the help i did a 20 %water change and it help

MCsaxmaster
05/27/2008, 09:35 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12609023#post12609023 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Bruno3047
Tell me, do your bacteria use a hammer and chisel to get "deep in the rock" or they they just plug in the jackhammer?

It's terribly interesting how cosmopolitan some bacteria can be. For example, there are lithogenic species of bacteria that live several miles down into the solid crust of the Earth (yes, they are literally found several miles down into solid rock) that live off of chemical products produced from the degradation of that rock.

For bacteria to get into a porous structure like live rock, it's a rather bit like you or I descending into the Grand Canyon. Holes and passages, far, far to small for us to see with the naked eye are orders of magnitude larger than bacteria.

So, no, they certainly don't us hammers or chisels, and they certainly don't need jackhammers. In fact, kau_cinta_ku is spot on here :D

And as for calling Randy a clown: wow--I'm speechless. I couldn't have imagined until now that anyone could find anything negative to say about him, until now. I've rarely if ever met someone as kind, helpful, or knowledgable as Randy. If that makes one a clown, sign me up :lol:

d_carloo
05/27/2008, 09:50 PM
So I did a 20 water change and test in 4 day is the same 160

any sugestions ?????

I change my filter sacks and clean my skimmer I out of ideas