BB versus DSB

[Gondore]

I have done a lot of reading around the subject of deep sand beds versus shallow sand beds versus bare bottom. What I originally wanted to do is go with a shallow sand bed, however, it appears you get none of the benefits and most of the problems of DSB and BB if you go this way. This leaves me trying to decide between DSB and BB. After speaking with the owner of Coral Reef yesterday for about 30 min. on this subject and reading a lot on ReefCentral, I am thinking BB is for me. I am just wondering what local reefers experiences have been with DSB versus BB.

[polish]

Just curious, why would you even want bare bottom?

Isn't the aesthetic reason enough? It looks pretty lame with just rocks on bare glass / egg crate.

I though the live sand was kind of necessary also?

[Gondore]

Going with a bare bottom allows you to keep a much cleaner tank.

Having a DSB can lead to a lot of serious problems including bristleworm takeover and gases being released from the sand bed if it's disturbed which can supposedly kill creatures in your tank. You also have to consider that dirt and plant matter will build up in the sand that you cannot clean and it will look tacky from the front of the tank.

What I would do if I went bare bottom is cover it with corals and eventually coraline.

[JCR's Reef]

Going BB allows you to increase alot of flow in your tank which is why alot of SPS keepers are BB and detrius wont build up.
However, Nitrification can take place in a 1" sand bed of very fine sand, which BB's cant do.
DSB's are coarser grains of sand to achieve the nitrification process.
Both fine sand grains and coarse sand support different forms of fuana.

[Leaky01ch]

Hello,

I just found the local Fort Wayne Forums.

On the DSB issue I just set up a new 90 gallon SW tank with a 30 gal sump about 3 months ago. I have a 6 inch sand bed that I put into place. that equaled about 150 pounds on sand. Consider what you want in your tank before deciding on BB or DSB. The reason I went with the deep sand bed is that I want to get some wrasses that require sand. If you don't need the sand for any reason then the BB is probably a better bet with what I have read. My tank is still an experiment in process but going well so far. After speaking with the gentlemen at Coral Reef I decided to purchase a few sand sifting stars to help with the airiation and other problems that come along with the DSB.

[Gondore]

Welcome to the Fort Wayne forum Leaky!

What do you plan to keep in your tank?

[Leaky01ch]

Right now I have a firefish and a huge Hepatus Tang. There is a fire shrimp, 2 peppermint shrimp, and a sand sifting star. On the corals I have 2 different kinds of mushrooms (orange and green), a really big kenya tree, 2 green frogspawn, 2 purple frogspawn and a green brain coral. I went with the sand bed because I'm a big fan of wrasses and many of them need sand beds. My next purchase will be a Fiji Excuisite wrasse. I'm also looking into a Mandarin (after tank is established for almost a year), possibly a royal gramma basslet, and some kind of gody (maybe sandsifting). I have a plan the way I want it to look, but never turns out exactly as planned.

[Gondore]

Sounds like it's going to be a very nice tank. I also like wrasses but the focus of this tank is going to be SPS corals. I plan to have a relatively light fish load. Because of the fact that SPS corals are going to be the focus of my tank I think BB makes the best sense.

[Leaky01ch]

I would have to agree with you there. If you cover the bottom with coral then there is no point in having the DSB. It can look nice but as I am finding DSB can be a hassle.

[LornaS]

being the owner of a tank with a dsb.....I do prefer the asthetics of a dsb. I have done a lot of research on both and went with the dsb due to the ability of a working sandbed to do its thing. A properly maintained sand bed with healthy fauna will turn itself over and with the proper inverts sand sifting snails such as ceriths and nassarius snails the sand remains very clean. I don't believe in keeping sand sifting stars as they have voracious appetites and can virtually decimate the life out of a working sand bed fairly quickly. Sand beds are not the reason for an outbreak of bristle worms....the cause of of this is usually over feeding as they are detrivores and will eat that food that isn't consumed, therefore if you reduce the amount of excess food your bristleworm problem will disappear. Bristleworms usually inhabit the live rock not the sandbed anyway. As to releasing gases.....well the idea with a deep sand bed is to create a deep area that remains undisturbed where the gas exchange happens, in a working sandbed you can see the nitrogen bubble to the surface through the sand. Another benefit of a sand bed is the ability of the sand to act as an assist in buffering.....

In defense of the bb group.....some people use starboard for the bottom which actually looks like sand.....though it doesn't have the ebb and flow of sand. Just remember that if you are going bb you will need to ramp up the flow quite a bit to ensure that any detritus is kept in suspension to be skimmed out by the skimmer.

[Fireworm]

I had a seio 620, and MJ 900 for flow in my 29, with a mj900 with mod kit on the bottom for my barebottom, and still had dead spots. I like the sand better.

[Gondore]

I guess the thing I struggle with is the concept of a shallow sand bed. It would seem that you get none of the benefits of either BB or DSB. The DSB provides filtration in the tank, while BB allows you to remove access waste more effeciently. It would seem that a shallow bed would not be deep enough for any significant filtration and would make it very hard to clean-up access waste. Am I off in left field here?

[Fireworm]

No, thats the way i understand it. Have you thought about running a remote deep sand bed? I have a 15g container under my stand with around 100+ lbs. of sand in it that I use for my sand filteration. It gives me everthing I need, and I still get to have a little sand in teh ank because I like the way it looks. Try listening to the Anthony Calfo talks on reefvideo.com or you can find it on Itunes.

[LornaS]

I agree with Phil.....a dsb in your fuge serves the purpose of the dsb. A shallow bed will need to be cleaned so it doesn't become a nitrate sink......but be careful not to put inverts in a shallow bed to turn it over that need this to supply their feeding as there won't be enough life in a shallow bed to sustain them long term. I always lean to either go dsb or go bare and forget about shallow beds.

[LornaS]

I agree with Phil.....a dsb in your fuge serves the purpose of the dsb. A shallow bed will need to be cleaned so it doesn't become a nitrate sink......but be careful not to put inverts in a shallow bed to turn it over that need this to supply their feeding as there won't be enough life in a shallow bed to sustain them long term. I always lean to either go dsb or go bare and forget about shallow beds.

[Gondore]

I think I am going to give BB a go and see what happens. If things go poorly after a year or so I can aways create a remote sand bed in my fug.

[Leaky01ch]

In my new DSB I am having a problem with detrius algae (not sure on spelling) on the top of my sand. I believe this is what it is, it is a brownish color. I hooked up 2 koriala 3's to help the circulation. ANyone have any suggestions on how to get rid of this?

[LornaS]

Leaky how old is your tank as it sounds like a diatom problem. This isn't slime algae is it? If so it could be cyano. I would suggest that you get something that will turn over the sand like a sand sifting gobie, just make sure you have a tight lid as they do like to carpet surf. A diamond gobie is a good choice.

[Leaky01ch]

The tank is about 3 months old. I definitely think that it is a diatom problem. I will look into the sandsifting or diamond gobie. Thanks for the help. Is there any other options?

[Fireworm]

Olive snails are cool, I don't know how safe they are, but they are cool.

[Fireworm]

Teh way I have my tank set up is with a shallow bed. Maybe 2 to 2.5 inches of sand. just enough to see it over the black trim of the tank. In my sump area I have a 15g garbage can with about 100lbs of sand in it for my RDSB. The original idea came from Anthony Calfo. i run roughly 300gph over it to keep stuff from setteling on top. So far it worked good for teh last owner and will hopefully do the same for me. I have read on this site that dsb in the fuge was not always the best idea. I know it will not work in my case, because of the weight issue along. My fuge will be above my tank and be gravity feed into the tank.

[Leaky01ch]

That sounds like a great way to do it having the DSB in a side area. Keep us posted on how it works for you fireworm. Also I ordered a Diamond Watchman Gobie from the LFS. I always thought they were cool fish so we'll see if it helps my sand.

[LornaS]

With a diamond gobie make sure that you have a tight fitting lid as I have had two commit suicide by jumping both made it through eggcrate.