How important is a skimmer ?

[mrpenguin]

I have a 70G tank with a 50G sump and it keeps my tank pretty clean except for a lot of green algae on the glass.
I have only 5 small fish.
I have only one big piece of SPS that is is doing just OK.

I was wondering how important a skimmer is for my set up .. do I need to get one ?

[ClownReef®]

VERY..

..and yes.

[hyperfocal]

I'm not sure you exactly *need* one, but you do need to get the organic material out of the water column somehow. One alternative to skimming is significant weekly water changes, done religiously.

[cutegecko3]

A skimmer doesnt solve anything but it does help.I beleive a refugium and healthy sand bed full of worms and other microfana can be as effective as any skimmer.With five fish feeding on your natural cleaning crew you may indeed want the help of a skimmer.

[matan_grin]

i belive a protein skimmer is a MUST HAVE in an SPS tank.
leaving the main goal of the skimmer aside( noooooogggg)
there are some other positive affects that take place when a skimmer is intruce to the system as better and much larger air/water surface,that will lead to aerobic bactria to work and repreduce faster and better.
it also gives you more space to go wrong every once i a while and lowers the need for WC.

[snorvich]

A skimmer removes nutrients, provides aeration for the water, and as matan_grin says allows for an error once in a while.

[pIankton]

Not a necessary piece of equipment, but they sure do help a lot.

[LockeOak]

Unless you're willing to do weekly water changes to the tune of at least 20G or so, I would say that a protein skimmer is necessary. If you're planning on keeping more SPS, even moreso. With a skimmer I would say 10G every two weeks would probably be sufficient with a low bioload. It'll eventually pay for itself in money saved that would have been spent on salt :)

No Skimmer:
20G a week water changes
$40/bucket, which makes 150G
That's 27 cents per gallon, or $5.33 a week in salt.

With Skimmer:
10G every two weeks water changes
$40/bucket, which makes 150G
That's 27 cents per gallon, or $1.35 a week in salt.

If you spent $250 on a decent skimmer, it would pay for itself in 16 months in money saved on salt in this scenario.

[photobret]

I have been skimmerless for a month now and its ok, but starting to stress a little now. I have a Deltec HOB on the way after my skimmer broke. So far no ill effects on the tank, corals still look great but am doing bigger water changes now just in case. Make the investment you wont be sorry and also dont skimp on a cheap skimmer either get a good one that will last. I have learnt the hard way!

[mrrrkva]

You need something to export nutrients. I eventually went to skimming only a few days a month, but slowly got there. I had a huge sump and refugium with a big DSB and lots of caulerpa and pods. I think it really matters on the tank. I also had lots of softies and Xenia ( I personally think xenia take out nutrients) I also didnt have many fish for the size of tank I had

[froggy4112]

yeah bro- you need a skimmer. i had trouble with nitrates before i got one. before my nitrates were about 60ppm, which isnt too bad if its just fowlr. but i wanted to add some zoas and shrooms and some other types of sps. so here's what i did.

i got a mid- grade skimmer which brought my na4 down to 20ppm, which IME is good enough to keep sps. bear in mind you dont have to have 0ppm of na4 to keep neat stuff in your tank.

but if you want a full blown reef, 0ppm is a goal you must achieve. and 0ppm consistanly, most lps wont tolerate inconsistant readings very well.

[zacharytrimble]

Well, I do think it helps...but you can survive without one...that's a pretty significant sump...if you keep up with water changes and if you integrate a deep sand bed in yoru 50 gallon sump...assuming you have enough bacteria in your tank for good nitrification...and then the sand bed takes care of nitrates...it's doable. I personally think you can't go wrong having one though...

[marinelife]

Depends on what you have. I have SPS and Clams with no skimmer. Two water changes a month so far have done it for me. You just need to take your time. If I did not have AEFWs my acropora would look great!!

[pledosophy]

I'd put some chaeto in the sump, a couple of clip on bulbs, a nice powerhead with some flow and see what that does for your levels.

It has been working for me for quite a long time. People have been telling me it's impossible for equally as long. :D

I have a few tanks. One of the is a 34g with a 25g sump filled with chaeto. I've done two water changes of 10g in 6 months, corals including sps is doing fantastic.

[wiscsaltwater]

A skimmer doesnt solve anything but it does help.I beleive a refugium and healthy sand bed full of worms and other microfana can be as effective as any skimmer.

I could not disagree more, ive always said there are 3 must haves in saltwater after the tank water and lights.

Liverock/sand.

Carbon.

Protein Skimmer.

Protein Skimmers are the single most important piece of mechanical equipment next to a tank in this hobby. Unless you religously do water changes every 7-10 days, get one.

[chilwil84]

how importent is ur toilet? do u like havin it?

[Aquabucket]

There are other ways to export nutrients besides a skimmer. Other factors revolve around what you intend to stock, fish load, coral choices etc.

If you do not want to run a skimmer then other means of export must be utilized. Personally I use macro algae to keep my nitrates @ 3ppm. I also don't stock heavy on the fish and choose corals (LPS and softies) that consume nutrients from the water.

I would put some macro algae in that sump of yours like others suggested and see what kind of results you get.

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12666560#post12666560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquabucket
There are other ways to export nutrients besides a skimmer. Other factors revolve around what you intend to stock, fish load, coral choices etc.

If you do not want to run a skimmer then other means of export must be utilized. Personally I use macro algae to keep my nitrates @ 3ppm. I also don't stock heavy on the fish and choose corals (LPS and softies) that consume nutrients from the water.

I would put some macro algae in that sump of yours like others suggested and see what kind of results you get.

I'd rather have the option to stock heavy, than be forced not to by not using a skimmer.

[oceanparadise1]

yea skimmer is a MUST have IMO ive tried with out one b4 and let me tell you boy it didnt work out good

[timnnell]

I've tried with and without. IMO they are a very useful piece of equipment as previously mentioned. My nutrients were fine for a long time without one, until my crabs decided to start killing my snails and made the nitrates go sky high. So I broke down and got another one and have been happy with it. They do allow for fewer water changes and they keep the water quality more consistant.

[paulamrein]

I'm not going to say anything that's already been said to death, but borrow one from someone in the hobby, doesn't matter the size. And when you clean it in a weeks time, clean it in a bathtub than get in the bath tub and swim around in it for a while. If you feel refreshed than you don't need a skimmer. I didn't think I needed a skimmer till I got one and realized how much gook and nasties are in the visibly clear tank, now I'll never not have one.

[Shawn D]

I would highly recommend a skimmer, I went skimmerless on my 75 sps for a while with a large fuge, but once I added a skimmer (8 months later) I noticed a huge difference in my corals better color, polyp extension etc. I also do weekly water changes of 5 gallons a my 29 and 15 on my 210 this keeps my levels in order. Although I do the frequent water changes my skimmer still pulls a ton of gunk that once you see you can't believe that it came out of your tank.
HTH

[fuschia_red]

Penguin,

You know what? There's always been debate about the necessity of a protein skimmer. I'd say, if you're SPS coral is doing well...meaning, colouring up (not brown) and your fish appear to be healthy and eating well, then perhaps, you don't need it. Frequent small water changes can definitely help you out.

A protein skimmer does add a little bit of buffer room but doesn't guarantee success. EVERY skimmer has to be fine-tuned: skim wet/dry; too many bubbles/not enough; etc.

Skimmers are good and bad (This comment will get heat). Why? Well, yes...skimmers remove organics before they break down and become part of the nitrogen cycle. It adds aeration to the tank; improves overall health of the fish and coral*. But, at the same time, skimmers can be bad (b/c they can over skim the water) remove beneficial nutrients taken in by corals and inverts.

Truth? There'll never be a substitute for frequent small water changes; not even the best skimmers in the world. There...now you know a little more.

[carlso63]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12662541#post12662541 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mrpenguin
I have a 70G tank with a 50G sump and it keeps my tank pretty clean except for a lot of green algae on the glass.
I have only 5 small fish.
I have only one big piece of SPS that is is doing just OK.

I was wondering how important a skimmer is for my set up .. do I need to get one ?


That depends... If you are happy with your setup as far as the stocking level - meaning only "5 small fish / 1 big SPS piece" and don't plan to add any more of either... than I would say no, you don't need to add a skimmer.


However, if you would like to stock heavier, especially more hard corals, then, yes, you should get a decent skimmer.

BTW - if you are concerned about the "green algae" that is probably due to phosphates in your water (maybe nitrates, too) - try some pO4 remover as a skimmer may help somewhat with nitrates but will not reduce a high pO4 level...

[Aquabucket]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12666865#post12666865 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RichConley
I'd rather have the option to stock heavy, than be forced not to by not using a skimmer.

And some people would rather not have all the equipment that many in this hobby choose to have. I still have the option to stock heavy and get a skimmer but would rather not. I really dig the simplicity a skimmerless and sumpless system like mine has to offer. Its really quite easy to maintain and virtually silent.

[mrpenguin]

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

I have always wanted a skimmer but it just seems so expensife to go fork our $300 and up for a skimmer.

My water seems pretty stable although I have to replace my filter sock every 2 days because they are so dirty they over flow by day 2 or 3 so I guess that means my water is pretty dirty and in need of a skimmer.

I do a 15G water change every weekend and add about 5G of fresh RO water a week as well.

I do have some macro algae in my sump with a smaller T5 light over it but it dont seems to grow very fast, maybe doubled in size in the last 4 months.


My stag horn coral is brown ... is this not its natural color ?
.
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a289/bigbluec/Aquarium/1.jpg


.

[marinelife]

The problem here is you can not take a skimmed system and remove the skimmer, YES you will have lots of issues. You have to slowly take it off over months and months.

I have been skimmerless for years. You need to just find what works for your system and do that!!

[ebrunelle]

mrpenguin,
I ran my low bioload FOWLR system for a year without a skimmer. I was able to keep water quality up with regular water changes throughout all the ugly new tank stages. I had no sump, nor refugium... just 2 Aquaclear filters with carbon and Polyfilters. The amount of water changes required to keep nitrates in check eventually became laborious. It also ran my small RO unit more than I wanted, and I went through lost of salt. I finally broke down and got a skimmer. If the skimmer operates efficiently, you will find it is of great benefit...removing organics, oxygenating the water, providing a safety net should a catastrophe occur. Water changes can then become a healthy ritual, not an impending necessity. As someone who was determined not to buy the expensive gadget at the start, I am now glad that I have one helping me out.

[mrpenguin]

Well I went to my LFS to take a fish back that was bullying everybody and nipping at my corals and there is was ... a second hand Berlin Triple pass protein skimmer for $150 CAN so I decided to takes everybodyes advice and I bought it, I am now going to clean it and set it up. :rollface:

[RichConley]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12667801#post12667801 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquabucket
And some people would rather not have all the equipment that many in this hobby choose to have. I still have the option to stock heavy and get a skimmer but would rather not. I really dig the simplicity a skimmerless and sumpless system like mine has to offer. Its really quite easy to maintain and virtually silent.

I don;t consider dumping a cup once a week to be difficult to maintain. Any half decent non beckett skimmer should be silent.

[jankytomato]

Sounds like you got a good deal.

It can be done effectively either way, you have to learn how it works and why you are doing it.

To say that you have to have one to be successful is ignorant, but if you don't want to find out why you may or may not want one, then you should probably have it.

On the other hand, foam fractionation a ridiculously simple idea in concept and application. You can build an effective one for under 50 bucks or buy a crappy one and modify it. No offense to those that love their big acrylic dongs, I wish I could afford to not think twice about spending that much money on something like that.

There's really nothing to the idea at all. Sure you can do recirculating, needle wheel, blah blah and really go over to the stripping the water side of things if you want. Beyond the poop and extra food, your not going to get much out that wouldn't be better left in there. Still need media (or macro) for nutrients - the only reason a skimmer helps with nitrates/phosphates at all is because it's taking stuff out before it can break down and enter the water column.

If a skimmer is used to maintain a dangerously high bioload, keep in mind that it will crash that much faster if the power goes out.

You know what really makes me laugh, though? Those giant 8 foot tall skimmers used by people with big systems or aquaculture, because it's the same design exactly just blown up super huge. I won't get into why this is really stupid, but it's obvious there's not a lot of (quality) engineering work going on there.

[SantaMonica]

Here's an option to look at:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12931276#post12931276

It's a build-it yourself 5 gallon bucket turf algae filter, basically free to build with stuff laying around. Has replaced all other filtration: skimmer, refugium, GFO, poly's, socks, waterchanges, HOB's, etc. Nitrates and phosphates just hit zero after one week of use, and that's with heavy feeding.

My thing with skimmers is that no matter how powerful they are, they do not remove any inorganic nitrate or inorganic phosphate. I realize they do remove organic material before they decompose into inorganics, but they do this by removing all the food particles, pods and plankton that otherwise would go to the corals. Turf algae, however, leaves all the food/pods/plankton in the water for the corals, and just removes the decomposed remnants: N and P. It's also how the ocean works.

[J.R.L.]

not necessarily a MUST but one would have to do alot of water changes and keep an eye on your levels pretty frequently if you ask me....i have a 75 also and dont know what i would do without it seeing how much crap it pulls out of the water...if i were you i would def get one without a doubt

[aastretch64]

Depends on what you have. I have SPS and Clams with no skimmer. Two water changes a month so far have done it for me. You just need to take your time. If I did not have AEFWs my acropora would look great!!

"marinelife" how much of a water change do you perform every week, and what do your parameters looks like?

I believe in a FO, Soft, or LPS tank you can get away without a skimmer, however when it comes to SPS my concern would be more on lossing color then anything else. If your nitrates or phosphates get a little too high, even for just a small amount of time the SPS will loose color and it could take a very long time to get the color back again. Parameters should be no higher then 5ppm of nitrates and .02ppm of phosphates to prevent color shift. IMO this is impossilbe unless you are performing massive weekly change outs. We spend all this money on rare SPS do to there color, why not protect your investment.

I also believe that although a refugium can be beneficial in the fight to reduce parameters, it does not work as quickly as a good skimmer, carbon media, and phosphate media. JMO.

I've got a 90 gallon heavy stocked with fish, a 10 gallon refugium, a great protein skimmer, phosban, carbon, and 10% weekly water changes (the water changes are mainly to replenish cal, alk, and mag so I don't have to spend a fortune on additives) to ensure that I will never have to concern myself with high parameters. For $300 your can save yourself some headaches.

Alex

[SantaMonica]

Speaking of the "gunk" that a skimmer pulls out... half of that gunk is food that the corals did not get to eat yet. And unfortunately, inorganic Nitrate and Phosphate are left untouched, in the water.

[marinelife]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12992498#post12992498 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aastretch64
"marinelife" how much of a water change do you perform every week, and what do your parameters looks like?

I believe in a FO, Soft, or LPS tank you can get away without a skimmer, however when it comes to SPS my concern would be more on lossing color then anything else. If your nitrates or phosphates get a little too high, even for just a small amount of time the SPS will loose color and it could take a very long time to get the color back again. Parameters should be no higher then 5ppm of nitrates and .02ppm of phosphates to prevent color shift. IMO this is impossilbe unless you are performing massive weekly change outs. We spend all this money on rare SPS do to there color, why not protect your investment.

I also believe that although a refugium can be beneficial in the fight to reduce parameters, it does not work as quickly as a good skimmer, carbon media, and phosphate media. JMO.

I've got a 90 gallon heavy stocked with fish, a 10 gallon refugium, a great protein skimmer, phosban, carbon, and 10% weekly water changes (the water changes are mainly to replenish cal, alk, and mag so I don't have to spend a fortune on additives) to ensure that I will never have to concern myself with high parameters. For $300 your can save yourself some headaches.

Alex



I do water changes on the 1st and 15th only and do about 80 gallons. No sure what my Parameters are, have not checked them in a while. My acropora color is great and the growth is good. I have most of the AEFW killed off and only find a few here and there.

[aastretch64]

Sorry to hear about the AEFW. That really stinks, but I hope you get them taken care of.

"SantaMonica" uneaten food that the skimmer pulls out is the most common cause of high nitrates and phosphates.

Alex

[SantaMonica]

Yes, but a turf algae filter will let the food stay in the water for the corals to eat, and will remove the nitrates and phospates that result from it. So the corals get to eat more and longer, and you have zero N and P leftover.

[sk8rreefgeek]

My tank has been "fine" for over 5 months (reef) but I am going to install my custom sump :p (that I built) and a nice new skimmer next month.
The topic has been beat to death (imo) but if your serious about your reeftank, I say YES, you do need one.

Here's an old pic (holdin out on the new ones :cool: )

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r41/karlkidd/70001.jpg


The way I see it, even with my once-a-week water changes, there is still the time in between. delicate creatures like that of a reef tank enjoy STEADY water quality.

getting to this point with no sump, no skimmer was not easy