Sea Hare Purchase for Hair Algae, how many?

[DLANDINO]

I am going to the LFS tonight for Sea Hare for control of green hair algae. I am taking long tem steps but this purchase will help with my OCD. How many Sea hares should I get for a 46 gallon tank with 51 lbs of LR and a 3 inch sand bed? The hair algae is not bad, it is in a few tufts on a few rocks but I don't want it to get any worse. I have implemented PhosLock in my filter, increased skimmer flow and have cut my feedings to every other day and have not seen any tell tale signs that the hair algae is increasing/returning. I was first noticing it about three days after each water change appearing on my filter's water return.

My PO4 tests are at 0 and Nitrates also 0. Any suggestions on the number of sea hares? Please and thanks.

Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
Phosphate 0
Ammonia 0
Calcium 460
PH 8.3
Alk 3.6
Salinity/Gravity 1.024 1/2

Dave

[Tang Salad]

I'd start with one, should be enough. And acclimate it slowly.

[Mikro]

I bought one and it did'nt touch the hair algae. The one that is suppose to do it for sure is the Dolabella auricularia. I'm having a hard time finding one though...

[ryanpal]

i just purchased my first sea hare. i have a 150 with alota HA (at first i thought it was a good thing). this is my first bout and so far the sea slug is eating it. let's see if he can eat faster than it grows.

as far as how many to puchase...i thought the same thing....i'm sure i could probably use another one

[superedge88]

1 should be plenty as long as it is eating the hair algae, give it a couple of weeks and things should start clearing up quite well.

[okkiedokki]

I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything but I'm considering buying one and I've read that the sea hare will only eat algae that is the color of their body. Like the tan/greenish ones eat the grean hair algae and the red ones would eat the red algaes. Can anyone confirm this?

[daven]

I had one of the tan/brown sea hares for a 29. He polished the hair algae off in about two days. Later moved it to a 180. Took him a little longer but it wasn't longer than 7-9 days.

Don't need more than one.

[DLANDINO]

hijack away, i would need to know that too I suppose.

Dave

[wookie6262]

Would it not depend on the size of the hare. The one I have is about 6" and devours most algaes. It is grey/brown and eats green algae. A great creature to watch. Buy one and pass it on to the next person when it has cleared your tank.

[greenbean36191]

I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything but I'm considering buying one and I've read that the sea hare will only eat algae that is the color of their body. Like the tan/greenish ones eat the grean hair algae and the red ones would eat the red algaes. Can anyone confirm this?
This is not true. Almost all sea hares are some shade of greenish, brown, or yellow. Depending on which species you're talking about they will eat red, brown, or green algae and there is no way to determine dietary preference by color. Aplysia is a commonly cultured genus used for laboratory work and although it's green, brown, or black, it's usually raised on red algae. Stylocheilus is usually yellow or brown, but eats cyanobacteria. You just have to know which sea hare species to buy. For hair algae, Dolabella is usually the way to go, but IMO it's far too big for a 46, especially with only a limited algae problem.

[okkiedokki]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12678788#post12678788 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by greenbean36191
This is not true. Almost all sea hares are some shade of greenish, brown, or yellow. Depending on which species you're talking about they will eat red, brown, or green algae and there is no way to determine dietary preference by color. Aplysia is a commonly cultured genus used for laboratory work and although it's green, brown, or black, it's usually raised on red algae. Stylocheilus is usually yellow or brown, but eats cyanobacteria. You just have to know which sea hare species to buy. For hair algae, Dolabella is usually the way to go, but IMO it's far too big for a 46, especially with only a limited algae problem.

That answers my question, I thought it was odd when I read that a bit ago but I don't know anything about sea hares so i thought I'd pose the question while people were discussing it. Thanks.

[Nanook]

I would agree that a 46g tank is way too small for a seahare. There needs to be enough algae for it to eat "long-term". Unless you plan to regularly feed it algae that you supply, which most people do not do.

[DLANDINO]

So should I be safe with just any Sea Hare that the LFS has? They tell me that they are about 1 1/2 inches for the small ones and about 3 inches for the large ones. Thanks, getting close to quittin' time.

Dave

[DLANDINO]

I provide purple and green sea weed for my tang, would this suffice long term? Or, would it be advisable to simply return the creature once it has finished the job?

[aquaman67]

I tried the seahare route and got no results.

IMO the longspine urchin is the lawnmower. I mean to the point that he eats coralline and I have bare areas on my rock. He strip mined my rock.

[macronut]

Go with one. They have a huge appetite.

[ryanpal]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12678967#post12678967 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aquaman67
I tried the seahare route and got no results.

IMO the longspine urchin is the lawnmower. I mean to the point that he eats coralline and I have bare areas on my rock. He strip mined my rock.

i was told if there was other algae for these guys to eat, they usually won't affect the coraline much. this is funny becuase i have one to the left of me readhy to be acclimated.

[DLANDINO]

I have placed "ugly" in the tank, he is doing his thing. Mostly on the glass right now and has not ventured to the rocks yet. That is where the hair algae is of course. So, I will watch to see what happens and report back. THanks again for all of the help. He was 24.00 at the local LFS and is about 3 1/2 inches long and about 2 inches in width also Frimer and lighter than I expected.

[DLANDINO]

So, I have had my sea hare for a little over 24 hrs now and in that time he has removed the hair algae from most lower rock work! I am hoping for him to have it totally cleared by the end of the weekend. I am very impressed with how quickly he has proven his worth. Now, of course I worry about long term care and feeding of this helpful addition to my clean up crew. He has also become less "ugly" and is bordering on so ugly he's cute. So far, I recommend this as a temporary solution to a hair algae outbreak but of course long haul success in the battle is a different story entirely.

[superedge88]

These animals really should be looked at as a temporary addition, then be traded to someone else or back to the pet store. Otherwise they usually starve slowly.

[chucksta1]

The sea hare will turn the bound phosphetes (algae) back into unbound phosphates ( sea hare poo) where it will once again be available for algae growth as the sea hare doesn't absorb or remove the phosphate, only recycles the phosphate. It's still got to be removed from the water column.

[Mare100]

Congratulations on your Sea Hare! I just had to pop in with a comment because I am an avid fan of these funny looking little guys. We bought one for our 120 when we were first setting it up for the same reason. Terrible hair algae problem. He made fast work of it and had the rocks clean in 2 weeks. I was scared that he would not be able to find suitable food and was thinking about "pimping him out" to others in need or returning him to the LFS. We soon figured out that he LOVES dried nori. We put a sheet on a clip for him every single night when he is "roaming about" and he just loves it. We've had him over 1-1/2 years now and he is doing great! He's big and plump and quite affectionate! He sometimes makes his way up to the top of the tank on the glass and sticks his little head out. I can't help but give him a scratch. I think he likes it because he sticks around for more.

Good luck with yours and if you think he is not eating properly, please don't let him starve. Try to loan him out or give him to the LFS for placement elsewhere.

Here's a little video I took of him.......hope this works!



http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t115/Mare100/th_100_2013.jpg (http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t115/Mare100/?action=view&current=100_2013.flv)

[MMM33732]

I reputable LFS just told me all sea hares are toxic and when they die can wipe out your entire system... any truth?

Also, do all sea hares eat hair algae or only certain types?

[DLANDINO]

thanks guys, yes the video works, looks like mine. I have seen him eat the nori that I have in there for my tang. He is still doing quite well in clearing the hair algae too. I would love to keep him and will take good care of him. I am the type that if I think there may be something wrong with the tank, I will stay up all night watching it and take the next day off. I will keep him alive come hell or high water. Thanks again.

Dave

[LoudProudNPunk]

I just bought one of the big guys, he cleaned my 45 gallon that was having a horrible algae problem in around 4 days. Its about 75percent gone hahahaha, its amazing. I would highly suggest them to anyone with a algae problem. I have had bad luck with the smaller ones, but the big one went to work right away. great buy.

[greenbean36191]

I reputable LFS just told me all sea hares are toxic and when they die can wipe out your entire system... any truth?
Yes, all animals are toxic when they die and rot. Large animals in small tanks are especially harmful and could wipe out an entire system. No, sea hares are no more toxic than any other animal of similar mass when they die, but being so large they can cause problems just from normal decomposition. Generally, people are concerned about them releasing ink into the tank if they're stressed or die, but the ink is also non-toxic and is just a soup of tasty amino acids that confuse predators.

[Ying Guo]

After the algae is gone, you can usually get them to accept nori (used for sushi rolls). It is a bit expensive, but it's better than letting him/her starve.

[MMM33732]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12702642#post12702642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LoudProudNPunk
I just bought one of the big guys, he cleaned my 45 gallon that was having a horrible algae problem in around 4 days. Its about 75percent gone hahahaha, its amazing. I would highly suggest them to anyone with a algae problem. I have had bad luck with the smaller ones, but the big one went to work right away. great buy.
You said you had bad luck with small ones? How small?

[DLANDINO]

Sea Hare still going strong on my hair algae. He is about 80% done with the entire job now and the rock looks great. I also went in there this weekend with a tooth brush and cleaned up some of the harder to reach tufts. I am going to try to keep him with the nori approach once he is done. Would make a great addition to my cleanup crew for future use. At the first sign of stress or malnutrition however I would promptly return him to the LFS.

Thanks for the reply on toxicity as well Green Bean. It is good to know this info. There are so many conflicting stories out there about them.

[MMM33732]

Dlandino, How large is your sea hare? I can't find any LFS around here that have any, so I'll prob be ordering mine online. I find a nice spotted one thats only 1" I like, but am afraid it may be too little as LoudProud said small ones never worked for him.

[DLANDINO]

He is about 4 inches long and 2 1/2 inches in width when he is stretched out. He was roughly 24.00. When you find one, acclimate him as any invert, slowly. Are very sensitive to salinity changes I am told. I acclimated mine for about 3 hrs.

[LoudProudNPunk]

i had 2 ones that were 1.5-2 inches long and they both died. One seemed to be for no reason, the other fell into my anemone, and got its head eaten.....ha.

i have just had better luck with the larger guys, they seem to be way better at cleaning as well as surviving. IME

[MMM33732]

So I actually managed to finally find one at a LFS. Drip acclimated him for about 2.5 hours and put him in. Right away he started munching away, but the lights were about to go out. They went out about 20 min later. The next morning before the lights came on, I see he moved about 10 inches away from where he was but it didn't look like any more had been eaten. I checked about 2 hours after the lights came on and still no more eaten, and I found him burrowed in the sand. Is this normal behavior for them to bury themselves?

[Aaroneous]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12725425#post12725425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MMM33732
So I actually managed to finally find one at a LFS. Drip acclimated him for about 2.5 hours and put him in. Right away he started munching away, but the lights were about to go out. They went out about 20 min later. The next morning before the lights came on, I see he moved about 10 inches away from where he was but it didn't look like any more had been eaten. I checked about 2 hours after the lights came on and still no more eaten, and I found him burrowed in the sand. Is this normal behavior for them to bury themselves?

Hmmm...I had one for a while and never saw it bury itself in the sand. It stuck to the shady areas when the halides were on. Was still fairly active when the lights were off.

[MMM33732]

I'll try moving him to some shade.

[DLANDINO]

Mine is still going strong and is now about 90 % done with the algae problem. He has been great. Also, never went into the sand but did find his way into a goby lair between a rock and the sand floor and stayed there till night fall.

[bsagecko]

i would not suggest getting a sea hare unless you do a ton of research beforehand i would say they are one of the most diffucult inverts to keep and most starve to death because of a lack of food after they clean out the place

[DLANDINO]

Update...my sea hare died probably 2 days ago. This would have coincided with my waking up and finding my skimer spewing from the top because it was over loaded with purple/red liquid. I was under the impression that the skimmer had gone nuts becasue we had mixed kool aid the night before. I thought that the dust may have made its way to the water and the skimmer pulled it out. Then, when I didn't see my sea hare for a day I went searching. I found him headless under a rock and stinking to high heaven. So, I still have a minor hair algae problem but it is getting better. I miss old ugly already. Thanks for all of the input on this thread.

Dave

[RichardScottRice]

I've tried sea hares on a couple occassions and they pretty much ignored the hair algae. The problem seems to be that there are many different types of "sea hares" and they all look pretty similar. Some eat hair algae, some have other specific dietary requirements and may only eat something like caluptera or chaetomorpha. If their specific dietary requirements are not met, they don't last too long. If I were to buy another one I'd want to see what it was eating first and then make a decision as to whether to purchse it or not.

[Earl111]

I bought one that looked like the one in the video and didn't touch the stuff. I've come to later find out that I believe I have bryopsis and not the more common hair algae.
Battling for about 3 months now and have done just about everything else to get rid of it and now seem to finally be winning the battle. Not fun!

[DLANDINO]

From picture comparison on line. I am finding it hard to discern bryopsis from regular hair algae. This may in fact be my problem. How were you able to come the bryopsis conclusion? Is there a trick to telling what kind of algae it is? I am now running phos lock and AZNo3 for Nirates. Nitrates are at zero and would assume that PO4 is as well but I don't have a very accurate test. I scrub the affected areas with a stiff tooth brush during water changes and suck as much out with a syphon. I am also now in a two day lightless period to try and kill it off. Anything more that I can do? How are you finally winning the battle? Thanks.

Dave

[RichardScottRice]

Bryopsis is a genus of Algae which comprises many different species just like Acropora is a small polyp stony coral genus which comprises many different species. Different Bryopsis algaes respond to different eradication methods. Its kinda of a trial and error methodology. Some are palatable enough to be eaten by various slugs, snails or tangs, some are not. Some respond to light deprivation, other species just go into a dormant state and reappear once there is light again. What is true of the entire genus though is that it can reproduce from a single cell. This is important to recognize especially when you're pulling, cutting, brushing or otherwise physically removing the algae from the rock. If you let any of it float around in the water it will just find a new place to attach on the rock and start a whole new colony. If you're unfortunate to have a species of Bryopsis that nothing seems to eat you pretty much have two options. Remove the rock from the aquarium and give it a good bushing with a wire bristle brush in a bucket of clean salt water and rinse well ( I wouldn't bush it in the tank, you only spread it around), or resign yourself to the fact that you will need to do constant maintenance to keep on top of the algae to keep it from becoming unsightly. Keeping phosphates at zero and keeping nitrates as low as possible help curb the growth, but won't eliminate the algae.

[DLANDINO]

Thansk very much for the detailed response. I will keep this thread alive with posts as I continue. Wish me luck.

Dave

[LockeOak]

I just purchased a sea hare ($20) for my 50G which has had a bad outbreak of two different types of hair algae, neither of which is bryopsis. One is Derbesia I believe, very long and bushy, the other is shorter but soft and carpeting. The sea hare appears to be Dolabella auricularia, ~4 inches long, based on photos (http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=dolaauri). It's been happily munching on both types of algae, and even seems to eat detritus, though it may just be shifting it around. I drip acclimated it for a little over an hour. He spent the first 12-18 hours hidden under a rock, then came out and went to work. Awesome critter. I plan on returning him to the LFS when he cleans out the tank. I'm going to be out of town for a week, based on his current feeding rate it looks like he'll be finishing up around the same time that I get back.

[RichardScottRice]

Cute critter! ;) I've never seen any that look like him before. Most of the ones I see look more like this:

http://bp1.blogger.com/_9jTkGowIILg/SBKPI20qU1I/AAAAAAAADoI/GOjviKClmCM/s1600-h/P1140116.JPG

[bubbly]

I would work on your nutrient issues -- find out what is fueling the GHA and take care of that.

Just having something eat the GFA is not enough , because it will eliminate the nutrients as "waste" and you have just put the components of the GHA back into the water to fuel more GHA growth.

Even if the sea hare is keeping up with the GHA growth, the nutrients could then fuel and aptasia or red flatworm plague, or a bubble algae plague soon enough. Even if it's not right away, something else will find it's way into the tank and use up all those nutrients floating around that are currently fueling the growth of the GHa.

It's all about the nutrient export. One biologist had a tank that had one aptasia that lived in the tank for a year and never reproduced. Others are battling never-ending aptasia infestations. why? Nutrients. Same thing with GHA.

[dtaylor123]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12676537#post12676537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DLANDINO
Iand have cut my feedings to every other day

Dave

Starving your fish is not the way to go. Fish need to be fed at least twice a day, more feeding with smaller quantity is the best way to go. I see this all the time, people think feeding is the main cause of nuisance algae, not true, phosphate is in most things and that will cause the HA. Feeding too much at one time is bad, I agree, food should last no longer the 3-4 minutes. If your fish look fat, then they are probably getting enough food, please don't starve your fish in hopes of reducing HA. One Sea Hare is enough in your size tank, most likely it will eat the HA then the Hare will starve. Maybe you can pass it around if you have other reefers that need one. For larger tanks a Fox Face Rabbit fish is the best choice. Well good luck with your algae, I hope you can eliminate it.

Dan

[LockeOak]

Of course nutrient control is the underlying problem, but the large algae that's already present isn't going to go away (at least not at an appreciable rate) even if nitrates and phosphates are undetectable. In the meantime there's enough biomass of nuisance algae that it outcompetes chaetomorpha for the nutrients that are available. A sea hare isn't a total solution (especially in smaller tanks) but it will give your macroalgae a fighting chance while water parameters are brought into line.

[Mikro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12805250#post12805250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by LockeOak
I just purchased a sea hare ($20) for my 50G which has had a bad outbreak of two different types of hair algae, neither of which is bryopsis. One is Derbesia I believe, very long and bushy, the other is shorter but soft and carpeting. The sea hare appears to be Dolabella auricularia, ~4 inches long, based on photos (http://www.seaslugforum.net/factsheet.cfm?base=dolaauri). It's been happily munching on both types of algae, and even seems to eat detritus, though it may just be shifting it around. I drip acclimated it for a little over an hour. He spent the first 12-18 hours hidden under a rock, then came out and went to work. Awesome critter. I plan on returning him to the LFS when he cleans out the tank. I'm going to be out of town for a week, based on his current feeding rate it looks like he'll be finishing up around the same time that I get back.

I'm just curious, where were you able to find the Dolabella auricularia? I looked around online and asked some lfs with no luck.

Thanks...

[Earl111]

Dave,
it is dark green , sometimes up to about 5" when I don't stay on top of it, the ends look like a fern. Here's what Iv'e done so far:
1. swapped out all of my bulbs for new
2. bought a sea hare(didn't touch it) also have a kole tang(doesn't either)
3. Bought a lawnmower blenny ( he eats it but not enough to clear the tank
4. raised mag to 1650
5. 35 gall water changes once a week, pulling out the rock i can get to and scrubbing with a wire brush and toothbrush. I also try to dunk the rock as well. You would be surprised how much of that brown powdery stuff comes out
6. got a reactor, first with Phosban and now GFO
7. changed lighting in my fuge from 12 hours to 24/7
8. upgraded my skimmer, pulls out more thick stuff now
9. reduced feeding from 2xs per day to once
It seems to be reducing and not returning to all of the places it was before. It used to clog my overflows and i would have to clean them every few days. I havne't had to clean them for a few weeks now. My Tunzes now seem to have less on them as well as the rock. It's frustrating and I almost swapped out my rock but decided to stay the course. It's funny that my original rock from my old tank doesn't have a spec on it, but the new rock I got in Sept get's covered. I seem to think that the phosphates store up in the rock and fuel it.

[Earl111]

also started dosing 2 part solution and trying to get my calc up to 450+ range. I just bought red sea salt which claims to have it's calc already at 450.

[DLANDINO]

Thanks Earl111, I appreciate the lay out. I have done all of the same stuff you have, nearly identical except I don't have a sump or fuge, so no Cheato.

This algae is dark green but I have never seen it get above 1 inche tall and doesn't look lilke a fern. Also, since I have taken measures to kill it off, it has certainly not appeared on the places that I first noticed the outbreak. It used to be on my filter return, uptake, grounding probe, and skimmer pump. I see it now mainly on one or two rocks and it remains localized to these two rocks. It appeared right at the time I upgraded my lights from PC to halide. The sea hare that I had did clear most of it from the low lying rocks but never ventured off of the bottom support rocks unless he was climbing the glass. I also have a lawnmower blennie and he is great at getting the nearly unnoticeable stuff but once it gets to about an inch tall he doesn't touch it.

The battle continues. Thanks again.

[Earl111]

no problem, hang in there if you are seeing improvement it's only a matter of time. At least I hope so!!

[Earl111]

pretty happy day for me as I almost swapped out my rock last week. I didn't think i was going to be able to get to the last few big rocks on the bottom of my tank that had hair remaining on them. I figured if I'm going to swap my rock I'm goin to have to rip apart the tank anyway, so I decided to do a water change and pull out the bottom rocks. Spent a few hours on sunday pulling out the last few, 40-50lb rocks and scrubbed them. Man that water was gross afterwards. There are now only a few patchs left that i couldn't reach. I looked into my tank this morn and it looked kind of shriveled and yellowish and the turbos are attacking the few remaining spots! There is one rock where I can see a 4" clear patch where the snail must have been eating all night! Very exiting as it's been a long haul to get rid of this stuff. See my previous post to all that I have done. One other thing to mention is that I have always used Instant ocean salt and have had trouble getting my calc over 340 or so. I did one 35 gallon water change with the new REd sea salt (which claims to mix at 450 calc, 480 at 1.025 salinity, and the next day , my calc measured 430! my tank is aout a 230gall total system btw. To everyone battling Hair algae, it can be done!!

[DLANDINO]

Congratulations! That is encouraging news. I have resigned myself to tooth brush scrubbing for now. I am still holding out hope that places of initial hair algae growth have not had re occurrence. It has been tought to get the toothbrush in the crevices of the rocks. I think that if I could get in there I could get it from the base. Right now in the areas that keep coming back I scrub on a Saturday, it appears gone, then by Monday it is right back the way it was. Dark green tufts that never seem to get longer than 1/2 inch.

[Earl111]

did you try taking out the rock, scrubbing it and dunking/rinsing it in another container with water from your changes? It was amazing how much crud came off my rock when I did this. There would be a layer of that tan powdery stuff on the bottom of the can when i did

[DLANDINO]

I have not tried it yet but can this weekend. This particular rock actually has a few corals on it. They are moved easily enough but have been avoiding that option. I am growing desperate. I also considered throwing the rock away but it is an 8 lb. piece of beautiful tonga. I may just kill it off and re assimilate it later on.

[Earl111]

i tried to avoid taking out the rock too, but couldn't. It's really not that bad once you get going. Broke a buch of frags off though. If it's just that one piece, pull it out and put it into a bucket with a powerhead for a few weeks with it covered. rinse it off with fresh salt water every week until it's gone. That way you won't kill everything on the rock

[DLANDINO]

That is another option. You are right, I would hate to lose all of the benefits of it being a "live rock"

[mksalt]

Tagging along......

[DLANDINO]

I wanted to update this thread with my battle against hair algae. In one of my last posts I informed that my sea hare had died. It was missing its head one morning and I had a skimmer full of what looked like kool-aid. Anyway, since that time I have continued to run PhosLock through my filter and have added to the mix 1/2 cup of Black Diamond carbon and was dosing daily AZ-NO3 for Nitrates. I have stopped using the Marineland Rite size pre-loaded filter cartridges all together opting for simple filter pads that I cut to fit the penguin 350 power filter reservoirs. Last night I had only two very small tufts of hair algae left in the tank. It appears that my attention to this problem and dedication to eradicating it has begun to pay off. I have not added any other algae eating critters to the mix but each week I was brushing off any visible tufts of hair algae and siphoning it out of the tank with the water changes. I think/hope that I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Good luck to everyone else tagging along on this thread that is running the same war.

Water tests last night proved the following
salinity/grav 1.025
Alk 3.6
PH 8.3
Mag 1375
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
Calcium 420
PO4 test measured 0 but who really knows. I am sure my test is about as accurate as everyone else's.